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When Uk Plc Goes Bust

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We as the US and other flabby Western counties are going down the tubes. We spend way beyond our current means and eventually someone will pull the plug.

What are we going to do when we cannot simply import everything we want and have to make it ourselves again?

I don't see people around me who want to get their hands dirty and get stuck in. I see people who are often lathargic, over fed, and totally unprepared to be self sufficient or work in an economy where pushing paper around the office or sending emails just wouldn't cut it anymore.

Why is it we now seem to have more jobs for 'checkers' then 'doers'? All these people with their degree qualifications in ticking boxes will be unemployable as companies would not be able to afford the luxury of such large amounts of non productive staff.

Why is it schools are ramming academia down all students throats when it is clear many resist it and show no appitude for it. These young people should be out there learning a physical skill at the earliest opportunity if they are not going to be gainfully employed cerebrally. We need to value skilled manual labour and give it a status on par with a 'professional' person.

We currently have masses of young adults who are either dropping out of education because they realise that they're not up to it but they are left with uninspiring alternatives. This is a particular problem for young males - how can you become become a "man" these days by working at Asda. It's not like being a miner is it?

At the other end of the spectrum we have huge numbers of graduates from 'new ' universities taking media studies and counselling etc.. ???

No, when we go bust, we will as a nation not be able to carry millions of non productive people (incapacity etc..) , nor will any of us have to be too proud to put our backs into it.

Then again perhaps I'm just feeling particularly desparing today and everything will be just fine for ever more.

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We as the US and other flabby Western counties are going down the tubes. We spend way beyond our current means and eventually someone will pull the plug.

What are we going to do when we cannot simply import everything we want and have to make it ourselves again?

I don't see people around me who want to get their hands dirty and get stuck in. I see people who are often lathargic, over fed, and totally unprepared to be self sufficient or work in an economy where pushing paper around the office or sending emails just wouldn't cut it anymore.

Why is it we now seem to have more jobs for 'checkers' then 'doers'? All these people with their degree qualifications in ticking boxes will be unemployable as companies would not be able to afford the luxury of such large amounts of non productive staff.

Why is it schools are ramming academia down all students throats when it is clear many resist it and show no appitude for it. These young people should be out there learning a physical skill at the earliest opportunity if they are not going to be gainfully employed cerebrally. We need to value skilled manual labour and give it a status on par with a 'professional' person.

We currently have masses of young adults who are either dropping out of education because they realise that they're not up to it but they are left with uninspiring alternatives. This is a particular problem for young males - how can you become become a "man" these days by working at Asda. It's not like being a miner is it?

At the other end of the spectrum we have huge numbers of graduates from 'new ' universities taking media studies and counselling etc.. ???

No, when we go bust, we will as a nation not be able to carry millions of non productive people (incapacity etc..) , nor will any of us have to be too proud to put our backs into it.

Then again perhaps I'm just feeling particularly desparing today and everything will be just fine for ever more.

Agreed. Saw far too many people kicked out of school with no good advice on what to do next, just to keep the marks up.

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I'm just feeling particularly desparing today and everything will be just fine for ever more.

I don't see it as despairing at all: the long-term effects of a recession that brought reality back into economics and politics would be hugely beneficial.

But the short-term would be real bad for the people who are loaded up with debts to be paid for by their non-jobs, and bad for pretty much everyone else.

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These young people should be out there learning a physical skill at the earliest opportunity if they are not going to be gainfully employed cerebrally. We need to value skilled manual labour and give it a status on par with a 'professional' person.

Pushing the dimmer young people into manual labour at "the earliest possible opportunity" would create a class of epsilon semi-morons incapable of anything but menial work; regardless of whether they develop more cerebral abilities later on.

I also disagree that UK Plc is completely stuffed - it has proved remarkably resilient so far.

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Even those with the inspriation and the aspiration may have such badly dented finances that any new business is likely to badly financed and suffer from lethargic growth as a result or worse. The policy makers of today will have an awful lot to answer for if we are right.

Student debt shelves tomorrow's big idea

http://www.freelanceuk.com/news/1530.shtml

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Pushing the dimmer young people into manual labour at "the earliest possible opportunity" would create a class of epsilon semi-morons incapable of anything but menial work

A culture that classes manual labour as 'menial work' while extolling the virtues of a PhD in Lesbian Studies is a large part of the problem. Personally I suspect I'd be both happier and richer if I'd left school at sixteen and become, say, a car mechanic rather than wasting three years of my life on a degree.

Edited by MarkG

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We as the US and other flabby Western counties are going down the tubes. We spend way beyond our current means and eventually someone will pull the plug.

Major economies can't go bust in the same way as heavily indebted third-world countries. The key point is that you need your foreign debt to be denominated in your own currency -- then you can inflate your way out of trouble if need be, at the expense of your foreign debt holders. Third world countries have to borrow in US$, so they can't do this, but the UK's government debt is in pounds sterling.

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Pushing the dimmer young people into manual labour at "the earliest possible opportunity" would create a class of epsilon semi-morons incapable of anything but menial work; regardless of whether they develop more cerebral abilities later on.

A person who can build a house is worth a thousand pen pushing regulators or HR executives.

At least they carry - out far far more worthwhile roles when compared to the armies 30 something Ms's working for regulators, Unions and quango's.

Millions of non - jobs. I cant wait for the time when all such jobs become exstinct as much of British enterprise gives them all the 2 fingers and relocates to India. I myself have stopped employing as I am deflated by all the regulation and non - core activity focus.

Only last night I saw a report showing that the holy - grail that are the 'value - added, high end' jobs are now streaming abroad. For example many design functions once the preserve of the West are transfering as well as advertising agencies to people who want to work hard and focus 100% on the job in hand, not whther the WCs are sutiable for disabled people, or checking whether staff are aware of ethnic diversity or the correct way to lift a box.

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Major economies can't go bust in the same way as heavily indebted third-world countries. The key point is that you need your foreign debt to be denominated in your own currency -- then you can inflate your way out of trouble if need be, at the expense of your foreign debt holders. Third world countries have to borrow in US$, so they can't do this, but the UK's government debt is in pounds sterling.

Germany - Hyperinflation.

US - Great depression.

Japan - Housing/RE debt bubble and bust.

Long term it may be soluble, but a whole generation can be financially wiped out in the process and if you are in that generation and exposed to it then it really is a mute point that things may be OK in 15/20 years time.

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Pushing the dimmer young people into manual labour at "the earliest possible opportunity" would create a class of epsilon semi-morons incapable of anything but menial work; regardless of whether they develop more cerebral abilities later on.

I also disagree that UK Plc is completely stuffed - it has proved remarkably resilient so far.

I have no evidence that keeping students on when they are not 'students' works for anyone. By beating them with a big stick for an extended period to get English and Maths against there will, we gain nothing but a large public sector borrowing requirement. I read that when the 5 GCSE measure is adjusted to include English and Maths, schools will sbe showing an average pass rate of 45% (that 55% not achieving a very mediocre GSCE standard after 11 compulsory years of schooling).

If we are not to be 'completely stuffed' what is going to turn around our trade deficit and huge public borrowing? Where will our new wealth come from?

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I have been studying lesbians for years but have yet to receive any formal recognition. :P

EDIT: More seriously Mark, my father pointed out that at his local garage the employees are being increasingly guided by a video based expert computer system that informs them how to take each next step with a little pictorial guide.

No real knowledge is needed, only manual dexterity, and it's becoming a bit asd^-drone like. When they have robots to do the dexterity bit, even that need will be replaced.

Now at the moment, being a real, old-fashioned 'hands-greasy-can-mend-anything' style mechanic is still a wonderful skill. There are loads of vehicles where the high-tech approach described would be nonsense. But like all these things - for how long?

Just yesterday talking to a friend, lorry driver, his Volvo tractor unit broke down.

Taken to Volvo agent, hard for them to locate fault.

Anyway 2 hours later friend wanders into workshop to find out progress and there's a foreign, English speaking voice out of a speaker.

Who is that? asks friend.

"Oh that's the engineer at Volvo in Sweden helping us fault find".

It was a broken wire in a massive wiring loom in the end, so hard to find.

Very common these days such use of technology.

Which is why I worry about the increasing moves to "plug" us in!

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The whole problem with just about everything can be tracked back to education.

The ability of a nation to prepare its future workforce with the skills required not just for today but the future is what sets a successfull nation apart from an impoverished nation.

Take any poor nation and you will find that education is non existent.

So in a nutshell charging your children for an education is not only crazy, its downright irresponsible for it is these children that will soon become the guardians of our nation in terms of both social and economic improvement.

Not every child is born an einstein and no child is like another, each requires different methods to allow that child to achieve its true potential. Not every child is atrributed with academic qualities, however search a little deeper and I am sure everyone has a quality that can be nurtured to be both of benefit to society and to the individual themselves.

The current Government runs of a policy of everyone is the same, because they actively promote the politics of envy, we should kick the twats out and get someone in who will practise the politics of excellence leading by example.

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Guest Guy_Montag

My take on this is the govt. wants us all to be mediocre. Well they may not want us to be, but that's what they're getting. the best aren't pushed & the stupid ones aren't able to learn because the teachers can't afford to spend all their time with them.

When I was at (state) primary school, we were in a mixed abilty class. What happened was the teacher set most of the class some work & spent the time while we were doing the exercise teaching the stupid kids. Net result, 25 kids were not pushed, just set work involving a minimum amount of teaching, while she concentrated on dragging 5-8 kids up.

When I got to (independent) secondary school, I was set for just about everything, this meant that I learned at my own pace. In subjects I was good at I was in a high set and pushed forward, in subjects I was bad at, I was in a low set, so the teacher was always teaching close to my level. It meant I did very well in English despite being low mediocre (not so bad I was in with the stupid kids at primary school) when I arrived, & I skipped standard grades in some subjects I was good at & went straight on to highers.

As I understand it most comprehensives are similar to my primary school, where everyone is bundled in together.

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The whole problem with just about everything can be tracked back to education.

The ability of a nation to prepare its future workforce with the skills required not just for today but the future is what sets a successfull nation apart from an impoverished nation.

Not every child is born an einstein and no child is like another, each requires different methods to allow that child to achieve its true potential. Not every child is atrributed with academic qualities, however search a little deeper and I am sure everyone has a quality that can be nurtured to be both of benefit to society and to the individual themselves.

Yes but those children have to want that education. Offer our education to children from the poor nations of Africa and they would show you achievement because they would see it as their way out of poverty.

It's that old argument, if things are relatively cosy and you have masses of things provided why assume anything is going to change?

There'll be a job won't there?

Up to now, for the most part, yes.

In the future?

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Pushing the dimmer young people into manual labour at "the earliest possible opportunity" would create a class of epsilon semi-morons incapable of anything but menial work; regardless of whether they develop more cerebral abilities later on.

I also disagree that UK Plc is completely stuffed - it has proved remarkably resilient so far.

Disagree wirh both your points :

Lots of people who previously went str8 from school into employment now start the same work work at 21 with degrees in soft subjects.....

1950........left school at 16 and str8 into articles/apprenticeship

1980........left school at 18 with A levels

2005........leaves uni with ''soft'' degree

My point being that the vast majority of ''additional'' graduates aren't doing degrees useful to society or themselves...........No more than 15% of the population are genuine graduate calibre IMO.....The rest should be doing vocational courses

Only an idiot could raise taxes massively over 9 years and even before a recession has started have a public sector deficit of 3.5% of GDP..............................

Edited by Michael

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Yes but those children have to want that education. Offer our education to children from the poor nations of Africa and they would show you achievement because they would see it as their way out of poverty.

It's that old argument, if things are relatively cosy and you have masses of things provided why assume anything is going to change?

There'll be a job won't there?

Up to now, for the most part, yes.

In the future?

Some don't assume that there will be a job - they know that the state will pay them to exist.

We have a culture of dependence. Very few know what it is like to be hungry, be without the latest trainers or not have a games console.

The point of this thread is also to highlight that we won't be able to carry all those who think that they contribute to society by holding clipboards, holding "team" development days or holding viewings on over inflated legoland boxes.

Just what are the essential roles during a "Great Depression" ? What skills will people need?

I conclude that there will be a period when those with strong hearts and arms will be valued more by their community than those with cheesy sales patters, those with a BMW and a false tan and those who were once on Big Brother.

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Some don't assume that there will be a job - they know that the state will pay them to exist.

We have a culture of dependence. Very few know what it is like to be hungry, be without the latest trainers or not have a games console.

The point of this thread is also to highlight that we won't be able to carry all those who think that they contribute to society by holding clipboards, holding "team" development days or holding viewings on over inflated legoland boxes.

Just what are the essential roles during a "Great Depression" ? What skills will people need?

I conclude that there will be a period when those with strong hearts and arms will be valued more by their community than those with cheesy sales patters, those with a BMW and a false tan and those who were once on Big Brother.

Go on then, state a list of 'very secure jobs' that will not dry up during a "great depression" type scenario.

I'll start everyone off

Policeman

Doctor

Nurse - may become staffed by indonesians

Judge

Prison Officer

Fireman

Notice not one of these Jobs actually produces anything? and are almost all public sector jobs?

Are there any jobs in the private sector which are truely safe?

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Go on then, state a list of 'very secure jobs' that will not dry up during a "great depression" type scenario.

I'll start everyone off

Policeman

Doctor

Nurse - may become staffed by indonesians

Judge

Prison Officer

Fireman

Notice not one of these Jobs actually produces anything? and are almost all public sector jobs?

Are there any jobs in the private sector which are truely safe?

All people really need is food, clean water/environment and shelter.

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The first role of a teacher at an early age is to instill a passion for knowledge into the children.

Todays teachers just look at it as a job, its no longer a vocation they themselves do not have a passion to teach and therefore this obviously rubs off with the children at an early age.

Cast your minds back to the old school days and you will not doubt have a favourite teacher and that teacher would have been firm but fair with the discipline in the classroom and have a passion for the subject.

It is no good saying that four year olds do not want to learn, its the teachers job to start them on the learning cycle and hold their interest for the duration, making education interesting and worthwhile. Kids are not stupid, they pick up on the smallest of things and using supply teachers and helpers is no way to help our kids.

Take a look at private schools, their operation costs are far cheaper than state schools yet they turn out exactly what business and industry require.

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All people really need is food, clean water/environment and shelter.

All people really need is cash to exchange for food, clean water/environment and shelter.

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All people really need is cash to exchange for food, clean water/environment and shelter.

I meant that if times are hard thats the only thing people will need to spend money on.

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Are there any jobs in the private sector which are truely safe?

Not many. The Indians are now making world class TV adverts for Western markets for a 5th of the cost.

They focus on the core task and leave us to fret over wheelchair access, paternity pay, diversity quotas and alike.

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The first role of a teacher at an early age is to instill a passion for knowledge into the children.

Todays teachers just look at it as a job, its no longer a vocation they themselves do not have a passion to teach and therefore this obviously rubs off with the children at an early age.

Cast your minds back to the old school days and you will not doubt have a favourite teacher and that teacher would have been firm but fair with the discipline in the classroom and have a passion for the subject.

It is no good saying that four year olds do not want to learn, its the teachers job to start them on the learning cycle and hold their interest for the duration, making education interesting and worthwhile. Kids are not stupid, they pick up on the smallest of things and using supply teachers and helpers is no way to help our kids.

Take a look at private schools, their operation costs are far cheaper than state schools yet they turn out exactly what business and industry require.

There have always been bad and good teachers.....i had some abysmal ones in the 1970s and their performance was under far less scrutiny than it would be now..........

I don't think teaching is the kind of work you'd do just as a ''job''................I could never do it unless i was fully committed...........................

It costs almost twice as much to privately educate a child as the state spends per pupil in the state sector.

Edited by Michael

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I meant that if times are hard thats the only thing people will need to spend money on.

Oh OK, then I agree, but most people will still need jobs. If things really go tits up (and I'm not old enough to ever remember a recession) do companies not offload workers, as shops and factories shut down, exacerbating the whole situation?

Surely there are jobs out there that are perfectly safe even in the most dire economic conditions, heart surgeons for one.

If you’re lucky enough to hold such a job then during the hardest times you could presumably afford to buy everything up, as everyone else is desperate & poor?

Edited by ?...!

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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