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New build apartments are reducing asking prices accross the city area. We are glutted with luxury 2 bed apartments on waterfront and any other bit off land they can find here and there. They have a new habit now of buying businesses closing them down and putting flats on that.

The public is more stubborne though, if they can't sell and they can't they will just wait until they have to; probably at the same time a lot of other people have to. Rent out btl is harder for the owners and there is noticable rent reductions.

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New build apartments are reducing asking prices accross the city area.  We are glutted with luxury 2 bed apartments on waterfront and any other bit off land they can find here and there.  They have a new habit now of buying businesses closing them down and putting flats on that.

The public is more stubborne though, if they can't sell and they can't they will just wait until they have to; probably at the same time a lot of other people have to.  Rent out btl is harder for the owners and there is noticable rent reductions.

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UpMyStreet show price of flats falling by 1 - 2 thousand to end September in Southampton. These figures are the land registry figures and are the actual paid for figures not guesswork. These are from a time when things looked a lot better although there were comments of unsubstantiated cost falls.

The student accomodation tower will open soon in town, housing hundreds of students decreasing demand for share houses around the town area. Planning permission to build a tower block for students in Bevois Valley is in.

Costs of the luxury apartments around are being cut significantley, one offers £10000 cashback.

Any info on problems selling etc appreciated.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Oh yeah! What happened to Ocean Village - somebody made a killing on selling that plot then.
I spoke to an estate agent about Ocean Village - he told me that there were 85 unlet flats there and that was before the main consignment of flats was finished in the new developement.

Lets face it though for such expensive gaffs they are boring and ugly.

As of 24th of November here are some stats extracted from the rightmove website. A lot of agents use this site but not all, so its not that accurate.

The figures relate only to flats and apartments.

1000's Quantity

50-60 3

60-70 21

70-80 31

80-90 54

90-100 87

100-110 77

110-120 88

120-130 81

130-140 60

140-150 48

150-160 49

160-170 38

170-180 39

180-190 40

190-200 30

200-225 42

225-250 51

250-275 18

275-300 11

300-325 6

325-350 6

350-375 7

375-400 5

400-425 0

Its a Total of 848 flats actually.

Rent PM£ Quantity

300-400 36

400-500 99

500-600 94

600-700 More than 100

700-800 64

800-900 25

900-1000 11

1000-1250 15

1250-1500 1

1500-1750 0

As of December 24, Flats and Apartments Only.

£1000's Quantity

50-60 3

60-70 13

70-80 27

80-90 46

90-100 87

100-110 70

110-120 84

120-130 78

130-140 57

140-150 51

150-160 36

160-170 52

170-180 43

180-190 37

190-200 42

200-225 54

225-250 46

250-275 18

275-300 12

300-325 6

325-350 7

350-375 5

375-400 1

400-475

Its 875, only a bit up on last month-you have to be carefull with these figures because I don't no what rightmove did to its listings when it changed the website to a more modern format. Have they in any way manipulated it to make things look better.

As of December 24, Flats and Apartments Only (RENTS).

£ Quantity

200-300 3

300-400 35

400-500 more than 100

500-600 more than 100

600-700 more than 100

700-800 62

800-900 32

900-1000 12

1000-1250 17

1250-1500 2

1500-1750 1

They dont give actual quantities once its over 100 so you will have to deduce for yourselves whats happening there.

24th January 2005

£1000's Quantity

50-60 4

60-70 18

70-80 27

80-90 52

90-100 82

100-110 80

110-120 more than 100

120-130 99

130-140 65

140-150 57

150-160 45

160-170 45

170-180 42

180-190 41

190-200 45

200-225 57

225-250 52

250-275 20

275-300 14

300-325 5

325-350 6

350-375 5

375-400 2

Total 963

£ Rental Market

300-400 37

400-500 91

500-600 more than 100

600-700 more than 100

700-800 62

800-900 39

900-1000 14

1000-1250 17

1250-1500 3

1500-1750 1

Total 464

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6 months ago there were 30 for sale boards from various agencies outside the dell developement. Overnite they disappeared never to appear again. Does anyone know why and has this happened elsewhere.

Happens all the time when it becomes clear that only investors have bought into a development and they are all trying to sell their units. This proliferation of sale boards is extremely bad for business, so the developers usually ban "For Sale" signs being displayed anywhere near the development. The units are still for sale, but you can't tell that by looking at it; effectively, they are conning anyone who is looking to buy there into thinking that it is a popular development.

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Plannng applications for Castle Way and the Mayflower car park add up to a total of 400 flats exactley. This on top of the current glut will not help prices in the central area. Barrats developement nr Queens terrace is well under way, probabley finished in 6 months, don't know how many flats. Many smaller developements around Shirley and Freemantle.

The number of for sale signs all over is increasing rapidly all over the place.

Thanks Gordon "No more boom and Bust eh".

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6 months ago there were 30 for sale boards from various agencies outside the dell developement.  Overnite they disappeared never to appear again.  Does anyone know why and has this happened elsewhere.

I was told by some people that they had all been sold because it was a good link to london by train....

"Happens all the time when it becomes clear that only investors have bought into a development and they are all trying to sell their units. This proliferation of sale boards is extremely bad for business, so the developers usually ban "For Sale" signs being displayed anywhere near the development. The units are still for sale, but you can't tell that by looking at it; effectively, they are conning anyone who is looking to buy there into thinking that it is a popular development. "

Obviously not then !

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I was told by some people that they had all been sold because it was a good link to london by train....

Have you ever tried commuting from Southampton to London every day? It's about as much fun as having your nuts cut off with a rusty razor blade and dipped in TCP.

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Have you ever tried commuting from Southampton to London every day? It's about as much fun as having your nuts cut off with a rusty razor blade and dipped in TCP.

no i havent - i would hate to work in london! Must have been a local myth then that people are buying at the dell to commute to london whipped up when those for sale signs were removed - clever psychology.

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  • 3 weeks later...

As of 24 December. A definate explosion of for sale signs all around Shirley, Freemantle.

20% of new biuld flats near the Eagle pub have been sold to housing association.

Mcaleer an rushe have changed there mind about building the 27 flats at the Charlotte place developement and want offices instead. The old BT building has been bought and is to be flats as is the old trimwise building.

The number of new flats coming online next year is a minimum of 1000 and what the max is would be a guess there is a lot I don't know!.

Happy Xmas all.

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6 months ago there were 30 for sale boards from various agencies outside the dell developement.  Overnite they disappeared never to appear again.  Does anyone know why and has this happened elsewhere.

I'm not surprized they're not selling at The Dell because of the state of the place. I lived in a flat there and now rent it. In Nov when I last visited, the central garden was still unfinished. Could someone tell me if its been done yet? I wrote to Barretts asking for an explanation but got nothing back. It was an eyesore and hardly promoted the place.

I'm also curious about a resident there they were trying to evict for antisocial behaviour. His flat was in the same block as mine. I'd appreciate any information on that.

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The 30 or so new flats on Hulse road are now for sale and ready for occupancy.

The crane is finally down at Ocean Village and these are very nearly ready for occupancy.

There is a developemant next to the bitterne PH, Bittern, its quite a large Developement, ready in 6 months.

Flats near the now demolished lamp and mantle are ready for occupancy.

Still trying to get rid of luxury flats near Vespasian road of bitterne road west, these are sticky properties and have been hanging around for a year now!

The Woolston waterside developement due for completion 2006 is reported to be 1700 properties or 2500 depending on who you ask.

There are smaller developements all over Shirley and Freemantle and a new site has started this week on Hill Lane.

My general feeling is that prices have already come down and that when the figures are released people will be shocked. In this local area, economic activity feels down on this time last year.

NetHousePrice figures need to be analysed and I will report back when I have done so. Up my Street will be publishing there figures for end of December property prices at the end of Febuary and I will report back.

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Courtesy of Nethouse Prices.

Small development in St Denys - all units very very similar

Sale Date Price

27-Apr-00 69000

3-Jun-00 78000

6-Apr-01 78000

24-Aug-01 88000

24-Aug-01 91000

21-Sep-01 93000

28-Jun-02 99950

26-Jul-02 108000

18-Dec-02 116500

12-Feb-03 119000

19-Aug-03 128000

21-Nov-03 126500

30-Jul-04 149000

4-Nov-04 131000

26-Nov-04 129000

Where to next I wonder ?

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This post by the way is refering to Ocean Village - an update on that; there is to be 8 Blocks in total but they are have difficulty selling all of Block 5 and have not therefore starting building the remaining 3 Blocks.

Dumping 20 properties on one development will have a very significant effect on the value of the other properties there. Given we are in a falling market the lenders will want a fire sale to recover as much as they can as quickly as possible -that means CHEAP.

On the present market it would be difficult enough to shift one or two properties in the Marina, but twenty.................

As Dr Bubb says, today's bargain price sets the new price standard for the others.

Oh dear!

It will have an effect alright cause they haven't even finished the site yet! They got two blocks to go!

Edited by deano
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75% sold at the town centre eagle pub block of flats. There are 60 flats, 35 are sold to keyworker and another 20 to housing association, that leaves 5 left to be sold privatly.

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I've collected these of the other thread and put them here now I'll drop the other thread now!

Just looking at nethouse prices for the SO15 area, thats central, shirley and freemantle - good god only 23 completions in January 2005 do you know how much we got up for sale here. I mean is that two completions per estate agent or something. The spring bounce better be good!

In the echo last week (last week of January) they are reducing the sale cost of the 1 million quid apartments at Ocean Village by 15%. They are going to redesign the 2 remaining unbuilt blocks so that there will be more smaller and cheaper units at £150,000 a piece instead of £350000. Now the second hand sale of one of the smallest flats on that site was offered this week in the press for £129000 so I think they are still optomistic in my opinion.

Any Southampton EA's, want to leave hate mail you are most welcome!

Lots and Lots for Sale Int there!

Just looking at nethouse prices for the SO15 area, thats central, shirley and freemantle - good god only 23 completions in January 2005 do you know how much we got up for sale here. I mean is that two completions per estate agent or something. The spring bounce better be good!

There is a forum discussion about these figures at the moment that has not been resolved, untill it is, take these figures as a guide not fact, they may be seriously out of touch with reality!. Will let you know when satisfactorily resolved!.

The Persimmon site down St Mary's is as good as finished. It is a large developement of real nice flats and houses. Got to give it to the archetects its a smashing job, better than the repetitive crap going up elsewhere. They are housing association so many Chavs that have done nothing for society but bang out a kid and scrounge of the state will pick up there reward. The hardworking honest masses can look in envy while slaving for an old brick studio on a council sink! I mean doesn't it just amaze you!.

On the subject of housing associations I've noticed a number of finished developements that have not one tennant whatsoever, does anyone know why?. One is on Bitterne Road West, its eary, why leave them empty for months. The other is in West End on the old Lamp and Mantle site.

Private developents:

The Hulse Road site is completley done luxury 2 beds.

There are 2 large sites on Regents Park Road 53 * 2 beds and the other is a starter.

The Kingsoak Bitterne site is 50 % done and forsale now.

Multiple small developements around Shirley and Freemantle must add up to 50 Flats or near!

Obviously the Luxury Pads, finished, going up, or starting are suffering real downward price pressures now. This has been as good as admitted by the Ocean Village developers. There are still hundreds to come on line in the Central area so this is an interesting area to watch!.

The up my street website displays property price graphs under the property section constructed from land registry figures.

The graphs for Southampton show a fall in prices from there peek by 3-4 % to the end of December 2004.

This seems to have aluded people, it is a fact. I think it could be possible for prices to fall by 20 % before the majority of population realised what was happening. We shall see!

I have seen the plans for the Woolston developement on the Vickers site. It looks a bit bazare but they must know what there doing. Three times alternate office blocks and blocks of flats, I mean, a block of flats, offices then flats again etc.

Is it assumed that the office workers will live in the flats or something. There are to be 1500 flats and 60000 square feet of comercial, thats a lot; by when? I guess around 2007!

Planning permission for 725 houses on land in Hedge End has been agreed. I am not aware of a start date.

It has been reported that a property consortium has gone bust leaving twenty Ocean Village flats for disposal. This will not be good news for the developers who will not be able to influence the Sale Price of the second hand pads while still trying to get rid of the new ones.

To add to the woes of the Ocean Village developement, three other luxury flat developments will be ready for occupancy in the next few months. I'm talking about the three sites opposite New York's and on the Trimwise site.

Add to this that two more luxury developements totalling 400 flats exactly have not yet started and you see the prospects for price stability are not good. The sites are on lower town French Street and the Mayflower theatre car park.

The old BT building (Briton Street) has been bought by developers but I don't know what the plans are.

The flats behind the Eagle PH are near ready for occupancy, I think there are 50 2 beds, not sure!.

I'll add them up for you.

Hedge End 725 houses.

Woolston 1500 flats

Eagle PH 50 flats

Regents Park Road 53 flats

Other Regents Site 28

Planned City Central 400

In and around shirley 50

New Yorks + Trimwise 100

More Ocean Village 100

Ocean Village Syndicate20

Total 2796 Dwelling's A place where people dwell!

Do you know any more or have more acurate figures for above!.

I have just been looking at the rightmove website for southampton and prices are definatley falling across the board. It looks like about 10 percent on both buying and renting.

Without analysing the figures too deeply I have been watching this market for a few years I can asure you this is the case.

2005 is the crash year!

Edited by deano
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Found this on motley fool with the help of zzg.

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=9259582

Well the upturn in activity is now well and truly a thing of the past along the South coast. The following anecdotal evidence absolutely confirms to me that we are now at the start of something pretty worrying.

I posted a few weeks ago about the glut of 2 bed 'luxury' apartments being built in Southampton. Well in Ocean village, they have apparantly stopped building them because they cannot sell the remaining units available on the previous phase. Agents are reporting buy to regret investors that bought flats are now panicking. No tenants - no buyers.

My mother in law works a one of the biggest builders Merchants in the country - absolutely dead apparantly - she has direct contact with directors of local housebuilders who have bought (smallish) plots of land in the last 18 months, but will not build on any of it. One company finished a site 12 months ago and still have 3 houses (out of 11) unsold. Another developer built 2 executive houses on the outskirts of Southampton a year ago. One sold straight away for £490k, the other one remains unsold despite the price reduction to £415k. You would expect the occuper of the 1st house to be absolutely gutted having pxssed away £75k, but no - he apparantly consoles himself with the fact 'that it's been a real luxury living next door to an empty house - it's so quiet and the kids can make as much noise as they like without us having to worry' - that's ok then!

A good friend of mine is a freelance quantity surveyor who specialises in groundworks (1st on site, 1st to leave) - existing deveopments are being finished, but absolutely no new residential work - except for social housing (he's very bearish and told me yesterday that he's expecting the 'Grandmother of housing mkt crashes')he rents btw - a luxury penthouse that he has negotiated rent reductions every year for the last 3 years).

I spoke to a client on friday who is a self employed builder - Earns good money when he's working, but now only works on average 3 weeks in 5. Told me of a firm of national building contractors (can't remember who they were, but had never heard of them when he told me the name) who have just laid off 300 bricklayers.

Finally, I have, over the last few months, developed a very good relationship a branch manager of a successful estate agent ( 20 years experience). This person is office based an spends her working day trying to ensure sales follow through to completion and compiling stats for head office etc. I've been sending them the RICS/Hometrack surveys when they come out and in return they have just started to open up as to what is really happening.

Transaction levels are the worst for 6 years - 40% down on this time last year. It now takes over 18 viewings to get an offer and of those accepted (many are not due to unrealistic vendor expectation), only 60% will proceed to completion. One guy I spoke to who probably earned (I'm guessing) £40-50k pa over the last few years in now on basic salary only and his wife has has to go back to work full time. He and his collegues know the market is absurdly overvalued and have got to a stage where if a vendor won't reduce the price, they just take it off the market and write to them afterwards. Also when taking the properties on, they're questioning the motives for selling - if it transpires that there cannot be any movement in the price at a later date - they don't take it on. Apparantly there are more and more people selling for financial reasons now - one poor chap who MEW'd to buy a BMW M3 convertible has just sold it, becuase he discovered that he couldn't afford to run the thing. Needless to say, the proceeds of the sale was not used to reduce his o/s mortgage balance.

Apologies for the ramble, but thought it might be useful.

Cheers

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Taken from a previous thread

On the subject of housing associations I've noticed a number of finished developements that have not one tennant whatsoever, does anyone know why?. One is on Bitterne Road West, its eary, why leave them empty for months. The other is in West End on the old Lamp and Mantle site.

And to date they have not put any tennants into these completed empty flats, why!.

Still empty and its 21st May 2005.

Edited by deano
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  • 2 weeks later...

19th May 2005

I've just been down the Ocean Village site and nothing is happening on the developement land. I have been told that they are going to sell the rest of block five before starting six. I don't know if it is true but it does look that way!

Below is the rental situation from the rightmove site.Flats n Apartments Only As of 19th May 2005

Rent £/Mth Number

300-400 31

400-500 more than 100

500-600 more than 100

600-700 more than 100

700-800 more than 100

800-900 56

900-1000 17

1000-1250 12

1250-1500 6

1500-1750 1

None Above these prices.

The flats on the old Trimwise site are clearly finished and on sale with a great dressing of coloured sheets on the balconie's, can't miss it. The Barrats site next to it is looking months off completion. Next to that the BT building has been bought by Linden Homes and they have not started, that is a very big site though.

Cost and Quantity of Flats and Apartments As of 19th May 2005

Price £1000 Quantity

50-60 4

60-70 11

70-80 34

80-90 61

90-100 more than 100

100-110 more than 100

110-120 90

120-130 90

130-140 61

140-150 65

150-160 63

160-170 62

170-180 81

180-190 51

190-200 47

200-225 51

225-250 39

250-275 22

275-300 15

300-325 5

325-350 10

350-375 11

375-400 2

400-425 1

425-450 2

450-475 0

475-500 3

None more Expensive

Adds up to 1081 but this is a bit nonsensical because I don't know how many flats are in the 'more than 100' sections.

If you look back on the last page at the 2004 November December Figures which are similar to each other it is safe to draw some conclusions.

There are more flats to sell between 90 & 110 now than in January 2004, it is about a 20% increase.

The total number of flats to sell appear to have increased only marginally by 10 % but remember only half of the estate agents use rightmove and I suspect they do not advertise all thier flats or duplicates of them in the same block. If you want a better grip of these figures you may have to increase these figures by as much as 2.5.

It does suggest that the actual sell prices of most of the flats has dropped 10% between January 1 2005 and March 31st 2005 however the figures from the "upmystreet site" disputes this, (Link Provided Below). I think that the trend is distorted by an unusually high number of really expensive flats in the city that simply did not exist in previous data. This is supported by looking at the trends in the price off houses in Southampton etc, where "upmystreet" show clear drops in price in the same time period.

Flats

http://www.upmystreet.com/property/prices/...outhampton.html

Terrace

http://www.upmystreet.com/property/prices/...outhampton.html

Semi's

http://www.upmystreet.com/property/prices/...outhampton.html

Detached

http://www.upmystreet.com/property/prices/...outhampton.html

All Properties

http://www.upmystreet.com/property/prices/...outhampton.html

The situation with the rented flat sector is similar, there is an increase in the number of properties for rent between £400 and £800 but I can not tell you by what percentage.

In the local property press there are some interesting developements. Fox and Sons are advertising not only there periodic property auction in the main press but also some off the properties that are to be available. As far as I know this has not been done before and may show a new trend. For those interested in going to have a look, go to Southampton Park Hotel on Tuesday 24th May 2005 at 10 am. Its easy to get in but take some ID, have a coffee its free.

Edited by deano
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The Twenty Three developement on Hulse Road has been completed for some 2 months now. They don't look as if they are selling like hotcakes and they are not being pushed in the local property press either. Not like Kingsoak they have the mark of desparation they do, £99 and move in. I don't think that's the total price yet though. :lol:

In a bazare twist another biulding company admitted in the Press that there were 1000 flats under construction in the City. 18th May 2005. Now I can add a least 2300 in the City Center and Woolston that have planning but no start on works. Add to that all the smaller ones about 500 and the 750 Houses now agreed for Hedge End and my previous estimate is now looking realistic. If things go wrong in the market these sites may never be started as planned.

Another property company is offering to sell thier flats at 80% market value but if the property is sold on within 10 years at a profit, 20% has to be paid to them. They claim it is not shared ownership or a rent buy scheme. Anyway I have heard for the second time that sales reps on new developements have been told to except 80% of asking price if they have to do it to clinch a sale, so its no deal at all really.

Some estate agents have been refusing to take on anymore rentals because they have been having trouble letting the ones they have.

The new student accomodation nr Marsh Lane is still shut even though it is obviously finished. It may be because the developers also own Orion Point Student Res (St Mary's Road) and that is still not fully accommodated.

These student accomodation blocks are in direct competition with numerous BTL landlords and they could end up in a vicious race to the bottom over rental income.

CU next Month

Deano

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