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Jack Chilli

Legal Position?

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Hi!

Sorry - I'm full of q's at the moment!

Whilst looking around for a potential purchase last year (Don't worry, I didn't buy and my feet are now distinctly cold about the whole thing) - I put an offer on a property, 20k less than asking, after a lot of pondering from the vendors and a bit of vendor arm twisting from the EA, it was accepted. I went two weeks down the line with it and then jumped ship (I'd stumbled accross hpc.com). This seriously irritated the EA (as it happens, the vendor changed his mind over his potential purchase anyway, so he was non-plussed, in fact, seems to have worked to his ad). One minute the EA was a lovely, charming, witty 'family man', the next, he was akin to someone you might expect to find in a Guy Ritchie movie. I'd never noticed the scar on his cheek until that point!

Since then, his agency refuses to talk to me, boo hoo. This hardly bothers me, except that there have been occassions where I would have been interested in viewing a couple of properties that have come on with them (I'm now renting, can bide my time - but still!) - if I can't go direct to the agent, then surely I'm forced to go direct to the vendor, in which case, should I buy anything, do they have a legal right to the commission if they haven't even represented the vendor?? Surely they are supposed to be acting in their clients best interest? If this EA version of Hoogstraten believes he is 'protecting' clients from a 'timewaster' (that's me folks, come on, I upset the poor little dear!) - is this right? Surely it's up to the vendor to decide on that.

Where do I/EA/vendor stand? Any idea's?? :ph34r:

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Hi!

Sorry - I'm full of q's at the moment!

Whilst looking around for a potential purchase last year (Don't worry, I didn't buy and my feet are now distinctly cold about the whole thing) - I put an offer on a property, 20k less than asking, after a lot of pondering from the vendors and a bit of vendor arm twisting from the EA, it was accepted. I went two weeks down the line with it and then jumped ship (I'd stumbled accross hpc.com). This seriously irritated the EA (as it happens, the vendor changed his mind over his potential purchase anyway, so he was non-plussed, in fact, seems to have worked to his ad). One minute the EA was a lovely, charming, witty 'family man', the next, he was akin to someone you might expect to find in a Guy Ritchie movie. I'd never noticed the scar on his cheek until that point!

Since then, his agency refuses to talk to me, boo hoo. This hardly bothers me, except that there have been occassions where I would have been interested in viewing a couple of properties that have come on with them (I'm now renting, can bide my time - but still!) - if I can't go direct to the agent, then surely I'm forced to go direct to the vendor, in which case, should I buy anything, do they have a legal right to the commission if they haven't even represented the vendor?? Surely they are supposed to be acting in their clients best interest? If this EA version of Hoogstraten believes he is 'protecting' clients from a 'timewaster' (that's me folks, come on, I upset the poor little dear!) - is this right? Surely it's up to the vendor to decide on that.

Where do I/EA/vendor stand? Any idea's?? :ph34r:

Legally, who knows but if you see something you really like and want to investigate it, get the contact details of the actual seller and give them a call. I am sure they will be happy to hear from you. Explain why the estate agent dosen't want to talk to you. I doubt that estate agent fees would be payable if they sold to you and you claim you found their house independant of the estate agent.

I can also understand the estate agent's point of view, there are professional time wasters out there who have nothing better to do and it does waste a lot of time - some (like you) will get brushed with the same stroke.

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It'll have a huge for sale sign in the garden.

:)

People answer their door when you knock on usually.

:)

If you see one in the paper and its not clear where it is just ring up and ask. If they don't tell you - then complain to the EA governing body or trading standards.

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You can get the address pretty easily (if not just get a friend to go in and ask for it) and then use the internet to get the phone number of just rock up at the house.

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The agents contract is with the vendor not you and it will normally be effective no matter how the vendor claims the purchaser found the property.

Of course if the vendor takes it off the market and then sells it it is difficult for the EA to prove that the purchaser saw the property prior to the cancellation of contract.

You must really have upset the EA if he point blank won't deal with you - very few people actually get an entry into the EA's 'This one's a complete tosser file'.

Edited by ILikeBigBoobs

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You can get the address pretty easily (if not just get a friend to go in and ask for it) and then use the internet to get the phone number of just rock up at the house.

"It'll have a huge for sale sign in the garden."

Yes, understood - but the couple of places I've been interested in don't have signs up, not everyone agrees to having a billboard in the front garden.

Yes, I could get a friend to go in for me, etc etc, but it's a bit uneccasarily cloak n dagger, isn't it? Shouldn't the EA just accept that sometimes people change their minds. Why do I have to skulk about like a crook, when surely, on the whole, it's the other way around??!!

My main query is if there is a legal point here - is the EA in the right, can he just decide for everyone's best interest? Is he misrepresenting his client? You can be damn sure he'd ask for his commision if he found out about a sneaky sale!

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A few years ago I somehow managed to get involved with a seller/EA dispute (I was the buyer). The Seller was not happy with the service from the EA and was planning not to pay him.

I told my solicitor about this and he told me to run for it as the vendor could get taken to court and I could get dragged into it big time. So I did.

Anyway, the solicitor told me that if the EA can prove that the buyer 'found' the property as a result of their companies marketing, then the vendor is obligued to pay the EA, especially if they have a contract, in some cases even if there isn't one.

What I suggest is that you aproach the EA, if he turns you away, then contact the vendor sayng you would like to view but the EA is unwilling to deal with you (be honest with vendor). The worst the vendor can say is sod off, and if he/she does then wait, if the place is still on the market 6 months later pop another note through the door.

To be honest, I wouldn't be supprised if the EA does welcome you back with open arms, I'd be guessing they are short of customers at the moment.

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"You must really have upset the EA if he point blank won't deal with you - very few people actually get an entry into the EA's 'This one's a complete tosser file'.

I have to admit, I'm slightly proud of my new status!

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I find the whole thing a bit unbelievable - I am not questioning what you say - it is, just, unbelievable that an agent would take that attitude.

If I were you ... I would ring the agent and say I want to view X property. If they refuse, simply tell them you will contact the vendor direct and advise the vendor the EA will not deal with you - explaining why. If I were the vendor and a prospective purchaser dropped a note through my letter box saying 'I want to view, due to my pulling out of previous sale your EA will not deal with me - can you call me to arrange a viewing' - I would go down to the EA's office and tear up his contract in front of him.

I appreciate you may have been a time-waster - but it does not mean you will always be one. Surely all the EA has to do is advise the vendor about your history.

I am not proud of this. I went up to exchange once and pulled out the day before - it was in the last HPC and I convinced myself I was overpaying.

3 months later had not found anything else - went back and offered 10k less. Vendor was furious. Agent was furious. Deal still went through though. In a tight market people will swallow anything.

This site should have a 'You don't need to sell through an Estate Agent' section with a list of the internet only house-selling sites.

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Hi!

Sorry - I'm full of q's at the moment!

Whilst looking around for a potential purchase last year (Don't worry, I didn't buy and my feet are now distinctly cold about the whole thing) - I put an offer on a property, 20k less than asking, after a lot of pondering from the vendors and a bit of vendor arm twisting from the EA, it was accepted. I went two weeks down the line with it and then jumped ship (I'd stumbled accross hpc.com). This seriously irritated the EA (as it happens, the vendor changed his mind over his potential purchase anyway, so he was non-plussed, in fact, seems to have worked to his ad). One minute the EA was a lovely, charming, witty 'family man', the next, he was akin to someone you might expect to find in a Guy Ritchie movie. I'd never noticed the scar on his cheek until that point!

Since then, his agency refuses to talk to me, boo hoo. This hardly bothers me, except that there have been occassions where I would have been interested in viewing a couple of properties that have come on with them (I'm now renting, can bide my time - but still!) - if I can't go direct to the agent, then surely I'm forced to go direct to the vendor, in which case, should I buy anything, do they have a legal right to the commission if they haven't even represented the vendor?? Surely they are supposed to be acting in their clients best interest? If this EA version of Hoogstraten believes he is 'protecting' clients from a 'timewaster' (that's me folks, come on, I upset the poor little dear!) - is this right? Surely it's up to the vendor to decide on that.

Where do I/EA/vendor stand? Any idea's?? :ph34r:

EA's have a moral obligation to protect vendors from timewasters like you. You realise the vendor pays a fee when they give their solicitor a failed sale instruction don't you? You also realise that non-serious buyers damage an EA's reputation for being able to get the deal all the way through to the finishing line? Not to mention the potential lost opportunity to sell to someone else while tied up dealing with you.

If I were selling, I would welcome my EA not showing you round.

Edited by Time to raise the rents.

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They wont stay annoyed with you for long. You are too valuable to them as a potential buyer. You can understand them being a bit miffed but in their day to day world of gazumping, gazundering, lyin' cheatin' and fibbin', this is nothing particularly unusual for them.

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I find the whole thing a bit unbelievable - I am not questioning what you say - it is, just, unbelievable that an agent would take that attitude.

If I were you ... I would ring the agent and say I want to view X property. If they refuse, simply tell them you will contact the vendor direct and advise the vendor the EA will not deal with you - explaining why. If I were the vendor and a prospective purchaser dropped a note through my letter box saying 'I want to view, due to my pulling out of previous sale your EA will not deal with me - can you call me to arrange a viewing' - I would go down to the EA's office and tear up his contract in front of him.

I appreciate you may have been a time-waster - but it does not mean you will always be one. Surely all the EA has to do is advise the vendor about your history.

I am not proud of this. I went up to exchange once and pulled out the day before - it was in the last HPC and I convinced myself I was overpaying.

3 months later had not found anything else - went back and offered 10k less. Vendor was furious. Agent was furious. Deal still went through though. In a tight market people will swallow anything.

This site should have a 'You don't need to sell through an Estate Agent' section with a list of the internet only house-selling sites.

I agree with you completely on all of your points M, and I find it unbelievable that an EA would turn his back on a good position buyer - crazy in this market. Anyway, what constitutes a time waster? My intentions were good, that is the main thing, surely? Ive mailed their site a couple of times, obviously the whole office has been told to ignore me as I've not even a 'f*** off' reply...just nothing.

As a footnote; after a Xmas beer or two with some mates on Xmas eve, I passed by their office and 'he' was in there balancing his cheque book (he's a partner, not the mainman), I popped my head around the door and wished him all the best, 'no hard feelings' - 'sorry I pulled out, but I had my own reasons'...and all that. He just stared at me, almost dropped his mobile phone on the floor. That was his chance to grab me and welcome me back into the fold. But he didn't. he must really f***ing hate me!!

:unsure:

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My main query is if there is a legal point here - is the EA in the right, can he just decide for everyone's best interest? Is he misrepresenting his client? You can be damn sure he'd ask for his commision if he found out about a sneaky sale!

I'm not sure about where the EA stands legally, I know they are legally abliged to pass on all offers but this is a request for a viewing. If he passed you off to the vendor as a timewaster, then I would be willing to bet the vendor would not question it. In my experience as someone who has sold a place (only one mind) the EA will advise the vendor on who is the most reliable buyer, most vendors will take this with out question.

If the house had been on the market for sometime then I would definately approach the buyer directly by way of a short note through the door. This would then challenge the EA's testiment that you are unreliable and it is none challenging to the vendor (they don't have to rely). It will of course get the EA's back up even more.

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That was his chance to grab me and welcome meback into the fold. But he didn't. he must really f***ing hate me!!

:unsure:

I think most people that have run their own business have had experience of dealing with people that just aren't worth doing business with and you do learn to turn those people away to preserve your own sanity. I certainly wouldn't be proud of being one of those 'customers' but everyone to their own I suppose!

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I think your problem might come when you tell the vendor the reason the EA doesn't want to deal with you because you pulled out of a previous deal. I don't think that will go down too well.

If your serious about buying you can tell the EA that you will pay £X amount as a deposit when the offer is accepted. If your not that serious then I can't blame them for not wanting to deal with you (harsh but honest).

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I think most people that have run their own business have had experience of dealing with people that just aren't worth doing business with and you do learn to turn those people away to preserve your own sanity. I certainly wouldn't be proud of being one of those 'customers' but everyone to their own I suppose!

This and TTRTR's comments are worth noting.

If this instance was just a hiccup and you are seriously wanting to look at a place, then take the advise given and try and contact the EA then vendor.

But don't go to the trouble of contacting either of them if you aren't seriously interested in the property, it does waste everybodies time.

I went to view a place about a year ago only to find when I got there the vendor had gone out (1/2 hour walk to get there). After waiting a while, I phoned the agent on my mobile, got an answering machine and left an "I'm not happy" message and went home. The next day I was called by the agent and asked why I hadn't turned up. When I explained (with gritted teeth) that I had turned up and had stood out side the house for 1/2 hour (in the cold), she told me I should have knocked on the door (like as if I didn't knock on the door!). Eventually after about 3 or 4 weeks of being refered to as a liar and unreliable, the vendor did the same thing to another couple and the managing director of the EA firm was forced to write a letter of apology to myself and Mr Goat, but it was too late and I 'unsubscribed' as a buyer from their agency.

This was a year ago and it still makes me seethe anger when I think about it, if you had cost an EA/vendor money then I guess they would be even more angry.

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I appreciate you may have been a time-waster - but it does not mean you will always be one. Surely all the EA has to do is advise the vendor about your history.

I am not proud of this. I went up to exchange once and pulled out the day before - it was in the last HPC and I convinced myself I was overpaying.

3 months later had not found anything else - went back and offered 10k less. Vendor was furious. Agent was furious. Deal still went through though. In a tight market people will swallow anything.

This site should have a 'You don't need to sell through an Estate Agent' section with a list of the internet only house-selling sites.

Why is someone who is making an astute business decision labelled a 'timewaster'? And, is their time spent on looking at the deal not wasted too? Maybe it is more the case that the seller is the timewaster here, since clearly, their asking price was unrealistic.

The deal is not complete until it is signed, and getting emotional because someone disagrees about the value of your house is silly.

So, you have every reason to be proud, you made a good decision and didn't let people manipulate you into wasting your hardearned money on their inflated offer.

Cinnamon

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"You must really have upset the EA if he point blank won't deal with you - very few people actually get an entry into the EA's 'This one's a complete tosser file'.

I have to admit, I'm slightly proud of my new status!

That's Ironic - all EAs are in my "this one's a complete tosser file"

:rolleyes:

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Why is someone who is making an astute business decision labelled a 'timewaster'? And, is their time spent on looking at the deal not wasted too? Maybe it is more the case that the seller is the timewaster here, since clearly, their asking price was unrealistic.

The deal is not complete until it is signed, and getting emotional because someone disagrees about the value of your house is silly.

So, you have every reason to be proud, you made a good decision and didn't let people manipulate you into wasting your hardearned money on their inflated offer.

Cinnamon

Thank you Cinnamon!

I did indeed feel manipulated and also very pressurised into making my offer in the first place, I won't go into all the personal details, but it was an emotional, stressful time. I didn't go into it glibly - but perhaps I shouldn't have listened to the EA in the first place. After weighing things up and after also spending money on my solicitors enquiries, and my own time also - I made a decision. I believe the vendor ended up with a higher offer anyway...almost immediately, so in a way I did them a favour. They have not even exchanged yet because they decided to go after another property which has held up their current buyer by about three months now - so who is the timewaster now? they could have gone into rented, but decided to save money at their purchasers expense. They made that decision, just as I made mine - with their best interests at heart - and why not? They are responsible for themselves and no one else. I agree, timewasting is not cool but I do not believe I am/was one.

That's Ironic - all EAs are in my "this one's a complete tosser file"

:rolleyes:

Absolutely! Let's be honest about this, how manytruthful, honourable, compassionate EA's do you know? If ever there was an 'in it for themselves' profession.......

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Why is someone who is making an astute business decision labelled a 'timewaster'? And, is their time spent on looking at the deal not wasted too? Maybe it is more the case that the seller is the timewaster here, since clearly, their asking price was unrealistic.

The deal is not complete until it is signed, and getting emotional because someone disagrees about the value of your house is silly.

So, you have every reason to be proud, you made a good decision and didn't let people manipulate you into wasting your hardearned money on their inflated offer.

Cinnamon

I friend of mine agreed to buy This Hotel he was in the bar buying regulars beers the night before the exchange and completion. Next morning, the day he was due to take ownership he backed out, he just had second thought about it business wise I suppose. Now I know the owner and the agent where fuming, but shit happens these are bloody big hundereds of thousands of pounds worth of deals, your not investing in a £9.99 pair of jeans. Was he a time waster ? Well he had peviously bought / sold a hotel/pub in Grassington, a pub/ restaurant in Dacre Bank and he had bought a Hotel in Harrogate. He's dead now bless him, died of cancer, but he was a decent bloke even though he was a Londoner ;) It's the risk all buyers and sellers have to accept one or the other backing out, not nice when it happens but that's life.

Oh and by the way purchases professional costs are considerably more than the vendors costs as they just issue a standard contract.

I was recently in a position to buy [ ten months ago] but the vendor backed out on the agreed handshake deal. Even though I had offered him the chance to change his mind before I spent money on plans, planning applications etc. I even said I would enter a time clause of 8 weeks in the contract to protect him regards possible planning failure, meaning I could not go to appeal. He said, come on we have deal don't we, surely your not going to back out. I said no I'm not backing out but I'm having to front up some serious money, and I just want to be sure you are not having second thoughts, no way he assured me. Anyway two days later I was going to write a cheque for searches, and his solicitor wrote to mine saying his client would only sign a standard contract. What was he to do, I said tell him the deals off, what if he comes back offering the original deal? give him the same answer. He eventually sold for less money than the asking I was prepared to pay. Incidently I was not charged any fees by my solicitor or the guy who visited the site and measured up for the planning, you win some you lose some that's business.

Edited by Catch22

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As a footnote; after a Xmas beer or two with some mates on Xmas eve, I passed by their office and 'he' was in there balancing his cheque book (he's a partner, not the mainman), I popped my head around the door and wished him all the best, 'no hard feelings' - 'sorry I pulled out, but I had my own reasons'...and all that. He just stared at me, almost dropped his mobile phone on the floor. That was his chance to grab me and welcome me back into the fold. But he didn't. he must really f***ing hate me!!

:unsure:

lol... I’m getting images in my head of Inspector Jacques Clouseau's

(Peter Sellers) long-suffering boss, Dreyfus (Herbert Lom),

developing a nervous twitch and being driven to a nervous breakdown!

inspectorc8mf.jpgherberdlom3tq.jpg

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lol... I’m getting images in my head of Inspector Jacques Clouseau's

(Peter Sellers) long-suffering boss, Dreyfus (Herbert Lom),

developing a nervous twitch and being driven to a nervous breakdown!

inspectorc8mf.jpgherberdlom3tq.jpg

Lol! I dunno about the twitch, but he had THAT look!!!!

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EA's have a moral obligation to protect vendors from timewasters like you. You realise the vendor pays a fee when they give their solicitor a failed sale instruction don't you? You also realise that non-serious buyers damage an EA's reputation for being able to get the deal all the way through to the finishing line? Not to mention the potential lost opportunity to sell to someone else while tied up dealing with you.

If I were selling, I would welcome my EA not showing you round.

It's not always time wasting.. Sometimes sales just don't work out.. I think wasting time on purpose though is bad behaviour...

Granted Estate Agents have more then most at the moment..

Sorry that was a cheap shot..

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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