A Guide To Ftb's

[?...!]

A selection of my friends,

1)

23, left school at 16, electricians HNC, works offshore (oil rig), engaged, bought a house in Nov £190,000, Angry I have not done the same.

£45,000 pa

2)

31, left school at 16, electricians HNC, works rotationally over sea’s (undersea cables), girlfriend, bought a house in Dec £140,000, “finally made it”

£48,000 pa

3)

22, left school at 16, Army trained HGV driver, crane driver, single, lives in works van, “living the dream”

£52,000 pa

4)

22, left school at 16, pipefitter tradesman, works offshore, single, lives at mum & dad’s, looking for a house.

£35,000 pa

5)

28, left school at 16, panel beater, works in large local garage, single, bought in 2001, happy.

£28,000 pa

6)

23, masters degree in economics, Investment banker, single, rents in Westminster, prefers time to money.

£42,000 pa

QUOTE

"personal opinion: flat

worse case: global slowdown, uk economy suffers higher unemployment, highly leveraged (lots of debt) individuals lose jobs, cant pay mortgage, house prices fall, negative equity, more selling, prices fall c30%

best case: global economy continues to grow, rates stay low, consumers stop running up credit card debt in order to increase secured/housing debt, prices rally, stagnate at c+20-50% from lack of demand. this will end in tears because at some point the economy will slow down and consumers will have to pay off debt."

UNQUOTE

7)

21, studying engineering masters, student, engaged, rents, very ambitious, will probably buy shortly after graduation

£0,000 pa

8)

21, left school at 16, pipefitter tradesman, works offshore, single, lives at mum and dad’s, does not care about buying a house as he’s “missed the boat”.

£35,000 pa

9)

21, left school at 16, landscaper, lives at his dad’s, single, buying a house is completely out of his range

£17,000 pa

10)

23, left scool at 16, builders mate, lives with me, single, we rent, buying a house is completely out of his range

£16,500 pa

11)

22, left school at 16, carpet fitter & barman, lives with me, has girlfriend, we rent, buying a house is completely out of his range

£18,000 pa

12)

23, chemistry degree, RAF fast jet pilot, single, lives on base, does not care for buying a house (he flys at 1300mph, houses? what?)

~£27,000 pa

13)

23, left school at 16, welder, currently out of work, single, lives with his mum, buying a house is completely out of his range

£2,314 pa

All of the above are male, this is a quick selection of who springs to my mind.

This is an example of who FTB's actually are. I am trying to protect them, I have failed some of them.

me

14)

23, masters degree in mechanical engineering, design engineer, single, rent with two of the above, would happily emigrate before spending £150,000 on a terraced house

£22,000 pa

Thanks for taking the time to read this, the detail is probably quite boring, all comments are welcome

[Mags]

Are all those salaries for real?

Edited January 9, 2006 by Mags

[Pete95]

Interesting, and I think the general gist is that FTB's often earn a lot more than most people would believe.

I posted something similar to your post recently, and was accused of trolling - obviously it wasnt what a lot of people on the site wanted to hear.

Im a little confused as to exactly what 3) does to justify a salary of 52k however? But it seems many other of your friends are working off-shore, hence the salaries.

[Guest]

Thankyou for taking the time to prepare this, it's certainly interesting reading. Particularly the salary spread!

[Goat]

Interesting, and I think the general gist is that FTB's often earn a lot more than most people would believe.

Not really surprising, only those on well above national average can afford to FTB, all others excluded.

Out of interest, whereabouts are these people based?

Edited January 9, 2006 by Young Goat

[Guest magnoliawalls]

I remember trying to persuade a couple of my smarter friends not to drop out of school at 16.

I lost touch with them after that but this thread makes me wonder if they made the better choice. A few of my uni friends are out of work with masters degrees from top universities.

[A late entrance..]

Wow, wish I'd managed to find an apprenticeship when I finished school!

I'm 26, Transport Planner (Engineering Consultancy), £23k, living with single parent (inter generational batchelor pad ), single. Can only afford rough ex LA estate in dodgy areas that are too far to cycle to work from (my no 1 criteria!).

Edited January 9, 2006 by A late entrance..

[since the beginning]

Does seem rather strange. This is not impling anything but I never ask my friends what they earn and most don't offer the infomation up!

Also it is amazing that some of those companies still exist. Surely a garage could hire a polish panel beater for £14,000 a year and save £14,000 immediately. Shows that certain jobs haven't experienced the wage deflation as much as others.

[Unexpected]

No's 1 to 4 sound quite possible to me but they are by no means typical wages for 20 somethings in the UK.

These high wages as pointed out by someone else are due to being offshore tradesmen working on oil rigs.

Pipelaying and Cranedriving are also paid incredibly well.

The later examples are much more typical IMO.

[?...!]

All comments are appreciated.

and to clarify a few things.

3). Drives a 140 ton mobile crane I think it's the largest in the Uk/Europe or something. He often works 16 or 17 hour days and he enjoys huge demand.

I apologise about the panel beater thing, the guy trained as a panel beater but his job has evolved and now he mainly prices up repairs for insurance groups.

My friends are all very open about what they earn and always have been. This is the main reason why many of them are doing so well, if your friend who is two years younger than you shows you his pay check and it's twice you as large as your own you tend to start looking for work.

I still believe going to uni is invaluable even though I know alot of people who left school at 16 and are earning over £35,000 in their early 20's. University offers something else and a good degree from a good institute will always get you a job, and coupled with a few years of experience in a global industry you can find six figures.

Be patient

[Fancypants]

sadly, this is not typical of the FTBs that I know. I don't have the will or the certainty to be as systematic as the original poster, but I would loosely classify my friends thus:

1) male/female, 25-30yrs, renting in shared, retail jobs, north of England, wages under £20k. Invariably graduates in "arty" degrees

2) male, 30-35yrs, own first house with partner, IT/mid-range financial, £20-35k

ok this is very vague I know, perhaps I'm being too lazy. But it does re-inforce the notion that a university education is far from an automatic passport to wealth and happiness. Perhaps in engineering, IT, but otherwise a resounding nope. Many of the people I went to school with who never went to university are now earning far more than me in "manual" jobs.

And on the subject of earnings, I clear a tad under £30k at the moment, in London. I am 30. With the exception of housing (whether that is renting or buying) I find that amount to be more than sufficient to meet my needs - although this might be different were I to have children. I am fairly frugal in some respects but own a car, holiday frequently, eat out, gigs, cds, cinema ya de yah de... so there is only one thing in life that I would currently like which is unaffordable to me on this (apparently) modest salary.

[DabHand]

*Thinks he should have left school at 16*

[brownbootcuts]

A selection of my friends,

1)

23, left school at 16, electricians HNC, works offshore (oil rig), engaged, bought a house in Nov £190,000, Angry I have not done the same.

£45,000 pa

I work in the same industry and earn just a little more than this guy (Im 27) but there is no way I will be pressured into buying property at an inflated price.

[?...!]

I work in the same industry and earn just a little more than this guy (Im 27) but there is no way I will be pressured into buying property at an inflated price.

Well if you see him would you please tell him.

Cheers

[E Powell]

?...!

Are any of your friends with good wages involved in drugs or other

dubious activities ?

Electrician on 45k+ to much draw.

[?...!]

?...!

Are any of your friends with good wages involved in drugs or other

dubious activities ?

Electrician on 45k+ to much draw.

No, there are hundreds of electrical technicians in the North Sea who earn that much or more.

If you’re going to get so bitter as to make outrageous accusations as that. Why don’t you chew on the thought he only works for six months a year?

Almost anybody could take their offshore survival and spend every other fortnight on a steel rig in the middle of the sea.

It may shock you that there are people out there who get paid £32,000 pa plus for sweeping bird sh*t off oil rigs.

I think it’s a fair wage for spending half your life in exile.

[laughing_goat]

It seems to me that those most in danger of buying just before the crash are those earning £40,000+, as anyone earning less than that has the decision taken out of their hands.

Here are main camps for my friends;

1) Cannot and don't come close to being able to afford so don't think/worry about HPI;

2a) Can just about afford but not an adequate place, unwilling to comprimise pension/retirement savings to buy a home.

2b) Can just about afford but not an adequate place, will scrape together anything and everything to buy a place.

3a) Already bought and have MEWed to buy an extention (on their house that is) or various 'luxury' items.

3b) Already bought a home and bought a BTL property (in last 12 months) which is not making them any money.

4) Bought but not MEWing or buying BTL properties.

I would say the majority of my friends are in 1, closely followed by 2a, bear in mind that I am in my thirties and most of my friends are too. There are of course a few who have used their homes as ATMs and I have several BTL friends, only one of which is making a profit, he however bought his BTL place 4.5 years ago.

However, in catagory 2b, I have a classic example, which will sadly almost certainly end in tears.

A friend has just bought a house for £300,000, she also owns a flat that she presently lives in but plans to rent it out via the local authority. She needs to do some work on the new place before she, her partner and kids can move in. Her total borrowings for the project are £350,000, £50,000 more than the place was bought for and many times her and her husbands joint salary (their joint salary is no more than £60,000). I did try and reason with her but it was frankly hopeless. During the discussion she (and she was backed up by another 'home = cashcow' numpty) could make £2,500,000 by renting out her ex-LA flat over 25 years. This is when I realised their was no point in arguing and let her dig her own grave.

[rockdoctor]

I can assure people that oil-industry jobs are pretty lucrative.

Including bonus I got about £85K last year and we are looking forward to a decent payrise.

The reason is that there were so many layoffs during the lean times that when the boom times came back, there was no-one left to take up the jobs.

I think the salary-secrecy thing is a class issue. I'm from a working-class background and to me, sharing salary info is one of the ways to ensure you are getting your fair share within the company.

Most middle class friends and colleagues are pretty cagey about what they earn (amusing when colleagues will tell me their grade, but not salary. Internally published grade tables will show me their salary to within 5%!).

Anyway, I've learned not to raise the subject, to avoid awkwardness.

[Fancypants]

I can assure people that oil-industry jobs are pretty lucrative.

tis true. The friend of mine with the largest income works on the rigs and has done for ten years. Didn't go to university, works two weeks on two off.

all very plausible.

[laughing_goat]

I can assure people that oil-industry jobs are pretty lucrative.

Including bonus I got about £85K last year and we are looking forward to a decent payrise.

The reason is that there were so many layoffs during the lean times that when the boom times came back, there was no-one left to take up the jobs.

I think the salary-secrecy thing is a class issue. I'm from a working-class background and to me, sharing salary info is one of the ways to ensure you are getting your fair share within the company.

Most middle class friends and colleagues are pretty cagey about what they earn (amusing when colleagues will tell me their grade, but not salary. Internally published grade tables will show me their salary to within 5%!).

Anyway, I've learned not to raise the subject, to avoid awkwardness.

I know what you mean about the talking about salary thing. I too come from a background where everyone knows everyone elses business. I have to admit, I was never comfortable with it other than in a close working enviroment where I think it should be discussed. In a non-working enviroment it can be used to riducule or force someone on a bigger salary to pay for drinks/meals etc, which I have never agreed with.

But one of my colleges managed to get a decent payrise last year because he knew he was getting paid less than the rest of us.

[WBFTB]

wow. A lot of your friends earn very good wages, especially for their age. The off-shore work does fetch a deservably higher than normal rate. Do any of the other figures you quote include overtime, shift allowance, etc?

Me, and most of my friends of a similar age (mid - late twenties) and a degree education earn in the region of 26 - 28k. Others about 18 - 22k. Only one earns over 50k, but he works very long days.

Friends that have not gone to uni don't tend to earn much less, but they do tend to work longer hours for it, including working away.

[MediaTrash]

No, there are hundreds of electrical technicians in the North Sea who earn that much or more.

I'm not siding with anyone whose named himself after that racist t!t Powell, but for how much longer will these North Sea jobs based on diminishing reserves be around?

[oilman]

tis true. The friend of mine with the largest income works on the rigs and has done for ten years. Didn't go to university, works two weeks on two off.

all very plausible.

Hi all.

I'm 28 and I've worked in the North Sea for the last 4 years. I worked for a drilling contractor and here is a rough breakdown of the salery's.

Rig Manager - £75K - £85K

Assistant Rig Manager - £65K

Driller - £55K

Assistant Driller - £40K

Derrickman - 34K

Roughneck - 27K

Roustabout - 23K

Chief Electricians £44K

Chief Mechanics £44K

Electricians - £34K

Mechanics - £34K

Crane Ops - £35K

Wage inflation throughout the North Sea has been approx 8 - 10% due to the High demand for Oil and the lack of unskilled labour.

Like all industries the oil industry has been very seasonal. When I started working back at the end of 2001, things were very quiet and most people had not had a pay rise in several years. Many had been made redundant at the end of 1998 when the oil price dropped below $20 a barrel. They were then rehired through agencies to do the exact same job for the same company but on about 20% less money. Many people left the industry around that time. Hence the Labour crisis that is now gripping the North Sea Oil industry.

[a j]

Hi all.

I'm 28 and I've worked in the North Sea for the last 4 years. I worked for a drilling contractor and here is a rough breakdown of the salery's.

Rig Manager - £75K - £85K

Assistant Rig Manager - £65K

Driller - £55K

Assistant Driller - £40K

Derrickman - 34K

Roughneck - 27K

Roustabout - 23K

Chief Electricians £44K

Chief Mechanics £44K

Electricians - £34K

Mechanics - £34K

Crane Ops - £35K

Wage inflation throughout the North Sea has been approx 8 - 10% due to the High demand for Oil and the lack of unskilled labour.

Like all industries the oil industry has been very seasonal. When I started working back at the end of 2001, things were very quiet and most people had not had a pay rise in several years. Many had been made redundant at the end of 1998 when the oil price dropped below $20 a barrel. They were then rehired through agencies to do the exact same job for the same company but on about 20% less money. Many people left the industry around that time. Hence the Labour crisis that is now gripping the North Sea Oil industry.

Theres better money available in Nigeria or Brazil. I do think that some of the wages being discussed for the non graduate jobs are focussing on a few well paid positions - I dont think the average is that high. Equally offshore work is well paid for a reason.

Edited January 9, 2006 by a j

[apom]

Interesting, and I think the general gist is that FTB's often earn a lot more than most people would believe.

I posted something similar to your post recently, and was accused of trolling - obviously it wasnt what a lot of people on the site wanted to hear.

Im a little confused as to exactly what 3) does to justify a salary of 52k however? But it seems many other of your friends are working off-shore, hence the salaries.

off shore enginears do earn a lot of money.. its true..

average salary for age group in your area..

easy to get..

I don't earn those salaries personally.. but I know I am not competting against a lot who do..