stevie_nottm Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) Agents and Landlords...dontcha just love 'em... Following on from one of my earlier threads, on the agents recommendation, I wrote in early December to both the rental agent and the houseowner/landlord asking about ending my 12 month agreement early (it ends in June) and a week later, got a reply back (a nice Christmas card actually...). In it, it said, in short "Ok, let me know the relevant dates when you know them for moving out...Happy Xmas, etc..." So, I was a happy bunny...easily resolved, jobs a good 'un What I didnt know until this morning was, that the agent and houseowner hadnt spoken in months (agent didt have the owners number!!!) so the owner didnt know I had a 12 month agreement (thought I had 6) so now wants to change her mind... Hmmm...The houseowners greetings card to me could be quite admissable as a piece of evidence as proof of her permission & intent to let me out of last months of my contract, and IMHO, its not my problem the agent & houseowner dont communicate... Sheesh....Its hard to find competent human beings these days..,... Edited January 4, 2006 by stevie_nottm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat-erica Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Check your rental agreement, mine has a 6 month break clause. Anyway, even if you are commited to a full year (therefore liabl;e for the full 12 months rental payments) a sensible agent will work with you/use your goodwill, coz you want to leave early and find a replacement tenant. That way they have the oportunity of finding another tenant, who may stay for long term, rather than have a disgunted tenant till june(even if you move out, while your name is on the tenancy for the period, they can't re-let it ) and a void period after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_nottm Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 Just as an update to my first message, the saga continues... After a month of having left and new tenants moving in on the same day as I moved out, the LL wrote to say we're not getting our deposit back as we ended our 12mth term early...even though the LL agreed we could go in the first place? I'm speechless to the LL's incompetence and lack of knowledge of the law... I think im right in saying that as the property was filled without a days rent being lost, that the LL has no grounds to hold my deposit, in fact, the new tenants are being charged £25pm more than we were being charged!!!! Incredible....we did the LL a favour! More revenue for her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShed Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 The landlord has no right to withhold your deposit regardless, as it can't be used for rent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needle Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I understand you dont need any "break" clause. As far as I have ever known giving 2 months notice is sufficient under the law to terminate any rental agreement, by either party, regardless of contract length. But dont quote me on that...im not a lawyer and I'm not giving legal advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShed Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 As far as I have ever known giving 2 months notice is sufficient under the law to terminate any rental agreement, by either party, regardless of contract length. But dont quote me on that...im not a lawyer and I'm not giving legal advice. Lol needle probably shouldnt quote you on that......it's not correct! If you sign up for a year contract, and there is no break clause in that contract, then you are bound into that contract for a year. Otherwise what would be the point in the contract? And....poster, did you find the new tenants? Or did the landlord? Did the landlord agree to allow the new tenants to move in etc? The landlord is ENTIRELY in the wrong here regardless, absolutely no question that if you sued them you would win, just trying to get some background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I think im right in saying that as the property was filled without a days rent being lost, that the LL has no grounds to hold my deposit, in fact, the new tenants are being charged £25pm more than we were being charged!!!! Incredible....we did the LL a favour! More revenue for her! Three recorded delivery letters sent at 2 weeks intervals from the date you moved out and you can start court proceedings with every chance of winning. 1st letter sent the day you move out asking for a full list of all deductions from your deposit, or the return of your deposit in full if there are no deductions. Request this is sent to you with a deadline of 2 weeks from your moving out date. 2nd letter - if they haven't replied, state that you require them to return your deposit in full, ensuring you give them the amount. Give them a further 2 weeks. if they have replied and you dispute what they say, state that you dispute what they are saying and that you require the necessary amount to be returned to you. This may be all or part of the deductions. Give them 2 weeks to comply. if there is an arbitration clause in the contract, ask them if they agree to arbitration proceedings to be started in 2 weeks, noting that if they do not reply then you will have to take this as a refusal to agree to arbitration. Add that the arbitrator should allocate the costs for arbitration. 3rd letter - if the matter has not been resolved, contact an arbitrator if that was in your contract and the landlord agreed to it, or send a third letter stating that if they have not returned your deposit in 2 weeks time (giving a date) you will start county court proceedings against them, you will be claiming for your cossts and you will be claiming interest. Get the exact wording from the small claims court web site. If they haven't paid you back by then, go to court. When you are giving deadlines, give actual dates. Keep copies of all your letters and don't become abusive. They need only be a paragraph long, and should stick to the facts. You will be using them in a court to demonstrate you have made every effort to obtain your deposit back from them without using the courts services. If they refuse to pay the court, they will end up with a CCJ againt them and could have the bailifs round. It may seem a bit hard to just send letters and not discus it on the phone, but when a letting agent was holding back my deposit, I telephoned them and was told lies. Letters will give you evidence. In that instance I didn't get any luck until I sent a letter to the three partners of the agency threatenning to take them personnally to court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_nottm Posted March 26, 2006 Author Share Posted March 26, 2006 Thanks all, some good comment... Just some details.. I was some 6 monhs into a 12 month contract whch didnt have a break clause. I had originally asked what the situation would be should I want to leave and agent recommended I asked the LL if it would be possible to do so. I got an written reply back to say yes. I take that as agreement of 'surrender' of my contract. Agent arranged/got new tenants, couple of viewing later volia...and they move in the day we move out, seamless! They pay more rent then we did!!!!! Deposit not back yet, and LL has had 1st recorded letter, and LL's reply to it was as my last post.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShed Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I would give them 14 days written notice to return your deposit, then sue in small claims. This case would be a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustrum_ridcully Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 This was mentioned on another thread, but after you've sorted this mess out contact HMRC tell them you think your former LL might not have been paying income tax. Considering the way the LL is behaving I suspect they won't be paying income tax on the rental money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShed Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Hmmmmm....actually, no I probably wouldnt. What business is that of yours? thats nothing but being bitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzMosiz Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Hmmmmm....actually, no I probably wouldnt. What business is that of yours? thats nothing but being bitter. What business is it? We are all tax payers, why should she get off scot free? Especially as she is holding a home that could be for a family to OWN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShed Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Because you have absolutely NO basis for assuming they are not paying tax. The only reason you would be reporting it for is because you have had a bad experience. That is being bitter, nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_nottm Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 Its a fair comment, but really you'd have to know there was something dodgy about the LL before really reporting them for tax evasion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard's Dad Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Especially as she is holding a home that could be for a family to OWN! Perhaps I've missed the point here. Are you opposed to the principle of home rental? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_nottm Posted March 31, 2006 Author Share Posted March 31, 2006 (edited) Well, the 3rd and final letter has gone off last night, giving 14 days to pay up or next stop, small claims court... Whilst i'm looking forward to getting my deposit back in a few days, a perverse side of me looks forward to getting my day in court, although, I read that some clear cut cases never make it, as theyre ruled in the applicants favour to save wasting valuable court time... and as this is, as Mr Shed says "A no brainer", this may just happen... Will keep you updated... Edited March 31, 2006 by stevie_nottm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzMosiz Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Perhaps I've missed the point here. Are you opposed to the principle of home rental? Not at all, if its done legally. This landlord obviously doesn't know the law, therefore its highly likely that this landlord doesn't know that they have to pay tax on any income from renting the property either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard's Dad Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Not at all, if its done legally. This landlord obviously doesn't know the law, therefore its highly likely that this landlord doesn't know that they have to pay tax on any income from renting the property either. But in saying "Especially as she is holding a home that could be for a family to OWN!" you do seem to imply that there is something undesirable about the idea of someone owning a home to rent. I'm just trying to come to terms with some of the rather anarchic sentiments that seem to have found a home on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guy_Montag Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Here we go again with this "Should you report your LL if you think their avoiding paying tax?" thread. Here's my tuppence worth: Report them, if they are avoiding paying tax they deserve everything they get. It reduces the tax burden on the rest of us, it (hopefully) puts other people off & it's only fair. If they are not avoiding tax, they'll not be beaten on the soles of their feet or anything, they may not even know they were investigated. If they do find out they were investigated, & can guess who by, maybe they'll hand over the deposit quicker in future to avoid it happening again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moggy Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Here we go again with this "Should you report your LL if you think their avoiding paying tax?" thread. Here's my tuppence worth: Report them, if they are avoiding paying tax they deserve everything they get. It reduces the tax burden on the rest of us, it (hopefully) puts other people off & it's only fair. If they are not avoiding tax, they'll not be beaten on the soles of their feet or anything, they may not even know they were investigated. If they do find out they were investigated, & can guess who by, maybe they'll hand over the deposit quicker in future to avoid it happening again. We have just been through a bad experience with our LL who has claimed unreasonable expenses to replace a sink (there was a chip there so small I didn't see it & am pretty sure it was there before we moved in),re -varnishing the wooden floors (they were scratched & marked before we moved in & it is down as such on the inventory),the garden..we spent 3 days generally clearing leaves etc & bringing it up to the standard that we received it in when we moved in.The inventory on check out reported everything favourably & only spotted the chip in the sink & a missing radiator key...he commented that the house was cleaner on check out than when we took over. We have had huge problems with the LL & his partner,I believe they resented us from the start as we insisted that the house be managed through a letting agent before we signed any agreements.A conversation my husband had much later with the LL was him ranting about how much a month it was costing him to pay the agents to manage the property. We learnt from the neighbour ,once we had moved in ,that the LLady had managed to row with all the neighbours in the road & was a deeply unpleasant person.Plus they had bought a house before selling the one we were renting & were despirate to sell it or rent it....were unable to do either for ages because it was such an awkward configuration of a property(5 bedrooms squeezed into what should have been 3 beds). They have both been very unpleasant & used intimidation tactics to get their way...we finally moved out a month ago after the LL threatened to serve us with notice if we didn't allow yet another person around (potential buyer) to look at the property despite this going against the agreement. We have contemplated taking them to the small claims court over the witheld money from the damage deposit but do not feel confident with the legal system. These people are so unscrupulous I feel they would lie about anything & we would be left with a huge bill. My husband spoke with the inventory man who said he thought the deductions were unreasonable too but we would be taking a gamble taking them to court......trouble is we are left feeling very ripped off & angry...this website is so helpful to be amongst other people who have been througfh the same... Am also tempted to report them to the Inland revenue!!! Thanks for listening to my rant!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Moggy, Take the bast*** to court. The worst you can loose is the £60 court fee & by the sound of it you have a very strong case. Usually the threat in itself is enough to get the LL to comply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moggy Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Moggy, Take the bast*** to court. The worst you can loose is the £60 court fee & by the sound of it you have a very strong case. Usually the threat in itself is enough to get the LL to comply. Thank you ! It helps to get support.We initially thought so too,particularly as I even took photos of the state of the house on check in.However.... My husband spoke with the inventory man who said that,in his experience,the court usually comes down on the side of the person being taken to court (ie the LL in our case).He wasn't that positive that we would win despite the fact that he felt the deductions were unreasonable etc We just couldn't bear the thought of him getting even more money off us!! Plus,we have had a very stressful time with my husband's dad recently dying & I have been in hospital (still not that well).I'm not sure if we could cope with court appearances at the mo,I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be at all fazed by a court demand & would lie his way through any appearance. It grieves us to let it go but we think that it could open a whole can of worms if we go into battle with them.We both think that he & his partner are quite disturbed individuals.....judging by what our neighbour reported about them & their behaviour towards us when we were renting. I was amazed that the LL had the ultimate "say" on what he could choose to deduct despite the inventory man's very detailed report.We have to take him to court if we don't agree so very little protection there. It makes one feel completely powerless. The only positive thought I had was the Capital Gains Tax they will have to pay on the property when they do sell...bet they didn't think of hat when they rented it out!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backtoparents Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Moggy, How much money has been withheld? Couldn't see a figure on here. btp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moggy Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Moggy, How much money has been withheld? Couldn't see a figure on here. btp £290 not enough to face the hassle of going to court but enough to be unreasonable! He threatened to withold the lot if we didn't agree!(£1500 odd),the agents simply wring their hands & say there's nothing they can do & that it's his call. I guess it's more the principal of the matter & the way he has constantly employed what I feel are bullying tactics that annoys me.He said the floor had been varnished before we had moved in which was almost certainly a lie as their were hundreds of scratch marks all over it...noted on the inventory as such too.They have been so unreasonable all the way through the tenancy so it is the last insult!! I am a bit more philosophical about it now as I feel we have escaped from them!! We are much happier where we are now but you really learn lessons the hard way sometimes.We are not novices at renting either & have done so many times...always had very little problems so perhaps we were just unlucky this time. The place was filthy when we moved in,you couldn't use the plug in the kitchen sink as they had taken the stopper off the u-bend when they had moved out.The oven was full of grease & old food...etc etc... We had drips from the ceiling onto light switches you name it...their attitude when it came to amending anything was awful.Took weeks to get any response from them.Ho hum. We left the place in a very clean state when we moved out which is why I find the deductions so offensive. I guess there's more to life than getting irate over these type of people but they seem to get away with it. Sorry,rant over for now!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Thank you ! It helps to get support.We initially thought so too,particularly as I even took photos of the state of the house on check in.However.... My husband spoke with the inventory man who said that,in his experience,the court usually comes down on the side of the person being taken to court (ie the LL in our case). That is total bulls*** from the inventory man (did he work for the agency?). If anything the courts will tend to come down on the side of the tennant. Provided the deductions are not reasonably supported by the inventories they have no grounds to make them. As I said before, the threat is usually enough to make them comply. Really what the LL is doing is making the deductions and then hoping you are too scared to challenge him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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