Mags Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I have looked at a couple of houses that are for sale as repossessions and it has been a complete nightmare getting any kind of reliable info from the EA concerned. I found out they were repossessions basically by bluffing - they then said afterwards that they had been told by the asset management company not to reveal who the vendor is, which companies are acting on behalf of the vendor, and the fact that the houses are repossessions. Does anyone know what potential purchasers' rights are regarding repossessions? Do they have a right to know who they would be purchasing from? Do they have a right to know whether a house is a repossession? Do they have a right to know if an asset management company is involved and the name of that company? The EA is telling me absolutely nothing at all and says that is because they have been instructed not to. My instincts say that this can't be legal and that potential purchasers should be told whether a house is a repossession and, at the very least, the name of the company selling the property. Am I completely wrong? How can I find out more about a house? And how can I find out more about buying a repossessed house? Many thanks for any help you can give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyw Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I have looked at a couple of houses that are for sale as repossessions and it has been a complete nightmare getting any kind of reliable info from the EA concerned. I found out they were repossessions basically by bluffing - they then said afterwards that they had been told by the asset management company not to reveal who the vendor is, which companies are acting on behalf of the vendor, and the fact that the houses are repossessions. Does anyone know what potential purchasers' rights are regarding repossessions? Do they have a right to know who they would be purchasing from? Do they have a right to know whether a house is a repossession? Do they have a right to know if an asset management company is involved and the name of that company? The EA is telling me absolutely nothing at all and says that is because they have been instructed not to. My instincts say that this can't be legal and that potential purchasers should be told whether a house is a repossession and, at the very least, the name of the company selling the property. Am I completely wrong? How can I find out more about a house? And how can I find out more about buying a repossessed house? Many thanks for any help you can give. Do a land registry search online - i think its £2 Then you know the vendor but the agents dont know that you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Do a land registry search online - i think its £2 Then you know the vendor but the agents dont know that you know! Thanks a lot johnnyw - I've just done that and found out the registered owner and lenders as well as the price. The owner paid 80,000 for it in 2001 and the asset management company now wants 159,950 for it. The house is a shell with no bathroom or kitchen, no heating, no electricity and no gas. Although I now know who the lenders are, they aren't necessarily the company doing the selling are they? Do I have a right to know that? Or is there a way of finding out? Many thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A late entrance.. Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 This will no doubt be something of a repeat issue over the next few years given the current and predicted rises in repo's. Even prior to the stage that Mags is at - how do you find out about reposessions coming onto the market before they get sold off? WTF?! Reposessed on the 2001 £80k mortgage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyw Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Thanks a lot johnnyw - I've just done that and found out the registered owner and lenders as well as the price. The owner paid 80,000 for it in 2001 and the asset management company now wants 159,950 for it. The house is a shell with no bathroom or kitchen, no heating, no electricity and no gas. Although I now know who the lenders are, they aren't necessarily the company doing the selling are they? Do I have a right to know that? Or is there a way of finding out? Many thanks! Unless the registered chargee has assigned their charge very recently they will be the contracting party. If they have put the sale in the hands of an intermediate asset management company you have no right to know who they are. Its often to do with banks trying to proetct themselves from allagations that they are not acheiving a reasonable price for the property -"but we uses a specialist asset management company and a reputable firm of estate agents so its not our fault it didnt acheive a higher price" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertPaulson Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) WTF?! Reposessed on the 2001 £80k mortgage? One word MEW Still, I expect the bank had a nice car to repossess aswell.. Edited January 4, 2006 by RobertPaulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattLG Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 how do you find out about reposessions coming onto the market before they get sold off? I'd also like to find out ways of doing this. I can't imagine going to a bank or an estate agent and asking for all their repossessions will get me anywhere. WTF?! Reposessed on the 2001 £80k mortgage? Maaaan they are in a bad shape! Now that you know that, you know that they will be happy with anything from £80K+. They only need their money back, anything else is profit. MattLG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) just because its a repo doesnt mean its still not 40% overpriced. i wouldnt even buy a repo right now. Edited January 4, 2006 by right_freds_dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyw Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 One word MEW Quite right - a further borrowing from the same lender wont show up at the land registry, a second mortgage with a different lender will. I'd also like to find out ways of doing this. I can't imagine going to a bank or an estate agent and asking for all their repossessions will get me anywhere. Maaaan they are in a bad shape! Now that you know that, you know that they will be happy with anything from £80K+. They only need their money back, anything else is profit. MattLG You go to the county court, find the daily list, sit in the public waiting area, wait for the posession case to be called, watch the poor devils go into court - you cant go in its private, wait for the ones who come out in tears then follow them home. THere is your motivated seller. I couldnt do it -its too close to personal misfortune to be comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 One word MEW Still, I expect the bank had a nice car to repossess aswell.. There's some stuff in the info I don't fully understand... under the 'charges register' it states the following: Registered Charge dated July 2003 to secure the moneys including the further advances therein mentioned. There is also another registered charge mentioned for 2004. Is that a couple of MEWs? There are two restrictions listed. The first one says: Except under an order of the register no disposition by the proprietor of the land is to be registered without the consent of the proprietor of the Charge dated July 2003 in favour of [mortgage company] referred to in the Charges Register. The second one says: No disposition of the registered estate by the proprietor of the registered estate is to be registered without a written consent signed by the proprietor for the time being of the Charge dated November 2004 in favour of [Overseas Personal Loans Company] referred to in the Charges Register. I'm wondering if this is a property to avoid at all costs? Thanks everyone. I couldnt do it -its too close to personal misfortune to be comfortable. Do you mean you couldn't buy a repossessed house or you couldn't do the following from court thing? I couldn't do the latter but haven't seen a good argument against the former yet, as long as the price is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyw Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) There's some stuff in the info I don't fully understand... under the 'charges register' it states the following: Registered Charge dated July 2003 to secure the moneys including the further advances therein mentioned. There is also another registered charge mentioned for 2004. Is that a couple of MEWs? There are two restrictions listed. The first one says: Except under an order of the register no disposition by the proprietor of the land is to be registered without the consent of the proprietor of the Charge dated July 2003 in favour of [mortgage company] referred to in the Charges Register. The second one says: No disposition of the registered estate by the proprietor of the registered estate is to be registered without a written consent signed by the proprietor for the time being of the Charge dated November 2004 in favour of [Overseas Personal Loans Company] referred to in the Charges Register. I'm wondering if this is a property to avoid at all costs? Thanks everyone. Youve got two charges, a first and a second. If you are dealing with the first he can sell good title despite there being a second charge even if there isnt enough money to pay the second off. If you are dealing with the second he can only sell if he gets enough money in to pay off the first charge in full, so you get good title. The first charge gets all the money on the sale, the second charge ranks after him and the surplus (ha ha) goes to the owner. Its called over reaching I think - no problem but use a qualified solicitor or licences conveyancer who knows what he is doing. I couldnt bring myself to try and buy direct off private owner occupiers who had just been given 28 days to leave their home Edited January 4, 2006 by johnnyw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eek Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 In which case the question is quite simple. Is the person selling the overseas company (charge 2) or the bank (charge 1). If charge1 you may want to approach with a reasonable offer (say £100,000) and see what they say. If its charge 2 walk away as it will become a nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 FWIW I'd say charge1 is mortgage and charge2 a secured loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Youve got two charges, a first and a second. If you are dealing with the first he can sell good title despite there being a second charge even if there isnt enough money to pay the second off. If you are dealing with the second he can only sell if he gets enough money in to pay off the first charge in full, so you get good title. The first charge gets all the money on the sale, the second charge ranks after him and the surplus (ha ha) goes to the owner. Its called over reaching I think - no problem but use a qualified solicitor or licences conveyancer who knows what he is doing. Thanks a lot johnnyw. I'm not certain I'll go for it. An offer has apparently been accepted and will go in the local paper next week. I'll see what they've managed to get so far I think. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyw Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 FWIW I'd say charge1 is mortgage and charge2 a secured loan. Yes You are probably dealing with the second chargee. It wouldnt bother me buying from a second chargee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 In which case the question is quite simple. Is the person selling the overseas company (charge 2) or the bank (charge 1). If charge1 you may want to approach with a reasonable offer (say £100,000) and see what they say. If its charge 2 walk away as it will become a nightmare. I already offered 100,000. The EA told me I was 'having a laugh' and offering 'mickey mouse money'. I think it would be unwise to go above that but they told me they have achieved the asking price. We'll see what the paper says next week! I don't know how to find out if the seller is charge 2 or charge 1 (or the original mortgage lender perhaps?). I'm getting absolutely nothing from the EA. Is there another way of finding out? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyw Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I already offered 100,000. The EA told me I was 'having a laugh' and offering 'mickey mouse money'. I think it would be unwise to go above that but they told me they have achieved the asking price. We'll see what the paper says next week! I don't know how to find out if the seller is charge 2 or charge 1 (or the original mortgage lender perhaps?). I'm getting absolutely nothing from the EA. Is there another way of finding out? Thank you. Put your offer in writing - it puts the shits up them in case their client wishes in retrospect they had taken it. They have to take instructions then. Then get a mate to go in next week and offer 95! If its a shell it may not meet normal lending criterea so they could be selling to a limited market It is better for you if its 2 because they have more to loose from it going wrong. 1 will be the original lender. I wouldnt be overly concerned about this. Were you thinking of approaching them direct? If so you would probably be wasting your time. they use agents in self defence against future litigation with the owner as I mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Put your offer in writing - it puts the shits up them in case their client wishes in retrospect they had taken it. They have to take instructions then. Then get a mate to go in next week and offer 95! If its a shell it may not meet normal lending criterea so they could be selling to a limited market It is better for you if its 2 because they have more to loose from it going wrong. 1 will be the original lender. I wouldnt be overly concerned about this. Were you thinking of approaching them direct? If so you would probably be wasting your time. they use agents in self defence against future litigation with the owner as I mentioned above. I requested a letter from them stating that my offer had been refused, which they did, but they also told me that they hadn't put the offer forward because it was below a certain level. I don't want to approach direct but just felt so wary of the EA after all the crap they've been saying that I wanted to know more about the sale. I wish it was possible to trust EAs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyw Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I requested a letter from them stating that my offer had been refused, which they did, but they also told me that they hadn't put the offer forward because it was below a certain level. I don't want to approach direct but just felt so wary of the EA after all the crap they've been saying that I wanted to know more about the sale. I wish it was possible to trust EAs! Put it in writing anyway - they have a legal duty under the estate agents acts to pass it on. You cant trust anyone - the estate agents sister in law may put a higher bid in at the last minute, the lender (if theres plenty of equity) may mess about till the equity has gone in interest charges and penalties, the lenders sister in law may put a higher bid in.................the possibilities are endless. And when the borrower complains the lender will say - well we used reputable etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deus ex machina Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Or the estate agent either directly or through a "partner" is buying it........last time around it was all the rage and quite a few did quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILikeBigBoobs Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) Surely whether or not it's a repo is irrelevant - your solicitor will sort out title or if he can't he'll advise you not to buy. What is important is it's value when renovated back to a decent standard. Do you know what comparable properties in the immediate area are fetching? Until we know that I think it's difficult to offer you any genuine and meaningfull advice!! However, if it's more than £215K I'd be tempted to offer £149K spend another £15K or so and either live in it or sell it into the spring market. Edited January 4, 2006 by ILikeBigBoobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Surely whether or not it's a repo is irrelevant - your solicitor will sort out title or if he can't he'll advise you not to buy. What is important is it's value when renovated back to a decent standard. Do you know what comparable properties in the immediate area are fetching? Until we know that I think it's difficult to offer you any genuine and meaningfull advice!! However, if it's more than £215K I'd be tempted to offer £149K spend another £15K or so and either live in it or sell it into the spring market. Nothing like 215K. More like 160K max. Their asking price is outrageous but I guess it depends for them on how much extra she has borrowed on top of her original mortgage. There's no doubt it could be a lovely house in a great area but it is just a small 2 bed shell. Or the estate agent either directly or through a "partner" is buying it........last time around it was all the rage and quite a few did quite well. Wouldn't surprise me at all. I've heard so many 'stories' from them about this house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyw Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Nothing like 215K. More like 160K max. Their asking price is outrageous but I guess it depends for them on how much extra she has borrowed on top of her original mortgage. There's no doubt it could be a lovely house in a great area but it is just a small 2 bed shell. Just be careful with your funding - if its a shell a lot of lenders wont want to know because it will always attract a limited market Youll have local builders after it too. Its quite nice as a builder to have a spot like this as a hospital job ( place for your men to work if your ordinary job cant proceed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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