theChuz Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 (edited) Look at it this way......say a bloke is in a pub goes up to another man who is sat with his wife and a group of friends. This bloke knocks over the mans pint and then inults his wife. What does the man do....walk away and risk his friends thinking he is a wimp and his wife thinking that he won't stand up for her. Or does he challenge the bloke?....He is between a rock and a hard place - his mascualinity is being challneged. A balanced post To use this example.. Its about measured responses, if he knocks my drink over and insults my wife and he is completly hammerd then you would deal with them differently, you would think they are drunken fools. If they seem to have all thier faculties and they are deliberatly abusive there is a differnt agenda and they probably just had an argument with THIER missus and need some argy bargy. The equivilant as i see it it The drunken guy is like the wife signaling that she is unhappy, huffing, puffing etc. The abusive guy is like the wife breaking down in tears and telling the guy how unhappy she is and the REAL reason why. Then you have the last option A guy knocks over your pint and insults you wife so you immediatly break a bottle over the side of the table and jam it into his throat, you turn it a few times just to make sure its fully in there, you pull it out and let him drop then you start to stop his face in with blood splattering all across the wall and across friends and family, you scream stuff like "what did you say to my wife, wheres my beer now" and continue smashing your fists and feet into his pulped face until someone drags you away. That is the wife wanting divorce. Measured responses - some things you cannot undo, somethings you cannot fix, if a future wife asks for a divorce then its already granted the fact that she *could* ask for it is signal enough to me that its all over. Edited January 2, 2006 by theChuz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 The difficulty with giving in is that it doesn't solve the problem of pride and respect (if indeed that is the problem...I am just offering one possibility) The reason being is that the last thing you want is your wife spending the next few years listening to "oooh. do you remeber that time you had to live in that rented house" ..."I don''t know how you coped" etc etc. I think you need to show your wife very clearly what the benefits of renting are in order for her to feel happy about the decision. This should be a joint decision that you both feel positive about and are both committed to. Me and my partner have endless discussion over house prices and wanting to buy. I am not happy living where we are and want to move/buy as soon as we can. Some days I feel like walking into the EA's buying a house and think ..sod the mortgage...everyone else does it and you only get one life. He has said he will do what ever makes me happy and would go out, get a mortgage and buy a house tomorrow if that is what I want. BUT when it comes to doing it.... it is always me that says no. No matter how bad things get and how tempted we are to buy we both made a decision over a year ago that we would not buy in this economic situation and as far as I am concerned the situation hasn't changed much. We sat down and agreed together under what circumstances we would buy e.g XX deposit XXX times our wages etc. We won't time the bottom of the market right...but we will buy when we feel comfortable with what we can afford. Funnily enough it is me that tends to make most of the financial decisions in our relationship and it is me who (despite my moaning every now and again about renting) keeps pulling back from buying. My heart says I want my own home....my head says it would be financial suicide to buy now. Just giving a female point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 ... WITH LUCK, the fact that you are both "pursuing her dream" will get her mind on off the idea of divorce, and to the property search. She should learn that you will be happiest as a couple, if she can wait until that is your dream too, or at least it can be fit in with your own dream of maintaining some financial prudence in your lives. ... (The women who post here: PLEASE comment on this strategy. Would it work if you were the wife?) It sounds very sensible to me. Are you sure you're not DrPhil in disguise =) But then again I would not divorce my husband of 17 years about renting vs. buying so perhaps I would see things differently anyway. (I don't have a husband) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyw Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 . No matter how bad things get and how tempted we are to buy we both made a decision over a year ago that we would not buy in this economic situation and as far as I am concerned the situation hasn't changed much. We sat down and agreed together under what circumstances we would buy e.g XX deposit XXX times our wages etc. We won't time the bottom of the market right...but we will buy when we feel comfortable with what we can afford. Funnily enough it is me that tends to make most of the financial decisions in our relationship and it is me who (despite my moaning every now and again about renting) keeps pulling back from buying. My heart says I want my own home....my head says it would be financial suicide to buy now. Just giving a female point of view. But did you ever threaten a divorce during the course of your moaning - i think not. When the woman has got to the state of threatening divorce reasoning wont work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realistbear Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Never underestimate the importance of NESTING. Females feel very vulnerable when the family home no longer exists and renting can never be seen as a "home" due to our learned perceptions. Believe me, I have just been there! Its the BIG downside to STR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theChuz Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 (edited) Funnily enough it is me that tends to make most of the financial decisions in our relationship and it is me who (despite my moaning every now and again about renting) keeps pulling back from buying. My heart says I want my own home....my head says it would be financial suicide to buy now. That restores some of my faith in women.. ive always thought that women can do ANYTHING a man can do mentally i.e there is no gender barrier when it comes to intelligence. So to hear that women are prepared to forsake economic sense, to give up on thier husband, to break apart a family with kids all for the sake of nesting concerns me. Especially when nesting is defined as having a mortgage instead of renting... my opinion of humanity is pretty low at the best of times so when i hear that love.. supposidly the most powerful emotion ever.. can be broken and tossed away purely over to rent or to buy .. i see nothing left. If its all that weak then.. whats the point. EDITED: I know that might as sound abit melodramtic but thats what i think when i hear stories like that, just a one off isn't a problem but it does become a problem when people start to identify with it and validate that it exists in more than one place. The need to nest is so great but what is the nest without the husband and kids. Wanting to make a home is fine but a home is not defined by the 4 walls of a house, its the occupants that make the home and the social dynamics inside it, otherwise its just a house. Kinda like buying a purse for a £1000 then realising you dont need it any more because you dont have any money to put in it, you spent it all on the purse. Edited January 2, 2006 by theChuz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCS15 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Big Al Hold a party with all her so called expert friends. Get their advice. Listen carefully. Then announce that Big Al has had a change of heart and will take their advice. Go on about how it is their advice that convinced you to buy. Name names. Get people to sign a list that they advized you to buy. Then make it clear that should things go bad that you will persue them for damages. Bet they won't be so sure of themselves then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 2005, I think you have explain the female point of view rather well. How long can you go on like that, or will you get used to coping with the emotional need? I can go on like this as long as I have to. My emotional needs are not just for now but in the future too. My desire to own a home is about security...not materialism. Buying a home now would not make me feel secure...just in debt to more than we could afford and that is not security. Life throws all sorts of things at you....at the moment it has thrown house price inflation at me...hey..there are worse things in life. There are three people's emotional needs to consider in my house. Although I don't like living in the house we are in it does have benefits. It is cheap (can save quicker) and my son is actually very very happy here so I am more than happy to carry on like this for the time being. Although housing places some stress on the relationship between me and my partner we are both committed to buying when there are less risks...so after a quick moan we are happy to carry on where we are for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Ring relate and get marriage counselling before you do anything. You need to address her concerns and maybe if she wants to spend her half of any cash you've got if you split then you're doomed. At least dividing the cash us is easier than selling a house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Here are some tactics, and strategies: + Put money aside into a special account as a "deposit", and think of that as money that will represent 10%, 15%, 20%, 25% or whatever of the house you will buy. Let her see that the longer you wait, the bigger thios fund wil be. + Workout how much you can afford to pay in a monthly mortgage payment, one which has repayments would be recommended, particularly if you are financing a high percentage. From this calculation and your deposit, you can work out what you can afford, + Ask her to start looking for a place within your range of affordability. Tell her that you and she should agree that you will insist upon a minimum discount to the asking price, like 10-15%, and that may mean a long and careful search. + Try and get her to agree that you will search, and not buy, for a minimum period of 3-4 months or whatever, so you can get a good sense of the market within that time. Ask her to stay alert fro signs of a price slide, while you are searching. WITH LUCK, the fact that you are both "pursuing her dream" will get her mind on off the idea of divorce, and to the property search. She should learn that you will be happiest as a couple, if she can wait until that is your dream too, or at least it can be fit in with your own dream of maintaining some financial prudence in your lives. Once you work out an understanding, take her away on holiday, and tell you how much you like being with her, and isnt it nice that you can still afford holidays. (The women who post here: PLEASE comment on this strategy. Would it work if you were the wife?) Dr Bubb, I like your suggestions on how to help Bigg Al's marriage problem. You are showing you understand and respect why she feels as she does, are prepared to talk about it, and go as far as meeting her half way. If that doesn't work nothing will. I'll be getting blown out next if I carry on spending so much time on HPC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksandMortar Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 i did say man OR woman. i think i have all the bases covered here. its defo another man. can you tell me if you have had girl friends that have ever dumped a man - to go without another man. maybe im wrong. but every time ive seen a split there was always a third person fanning the flames. and if the woman is boodylicious -then its even more likley. has she recently been buying jazzy underwear ? been argumentative over minor issues ? working later or more than normal ? critical of your person type ? i.e. boring, unambitious ect ? also: When the routine bites hard and ambitions are low And the resentment rides high but emotions won't grow And we're changing our ways, taking different roads Then love, love will tear us apart again Why is the bedroom so cold Turned away on your side? Is my timing that flawed, our respect run so dry? Yet there's still this appeal That we've kept through our lives Love, love will tear us apart again Do you cry out in your sleep All my failings exposed Get a taste in my mouth As desperation takes hold Is it something so good Just can't function no more? When love, love will tear us apart again oh my! you really are all bitter and twisted aren't you? Crashing houses, unfaithful women - where will it all end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matey Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 .....She cannot stand the constant hassle she gets from friends and her clients at the Beauty salon she owns and runs. Print a few thousand HPC "When rent is not dead money" flyers and get her to hand them out to her clients. Ask her what plans are in place if there is a drop in business at her salon because the way this country is heading no one will be able to afford beauty treatment. And a quote from Mrs Matey....take 'arf of the £80k and run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJMitchell Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I'm a single chap so my insight is limited regarding women. However, I believe this nesting instinct referred to, its not so applicable. The kids are 10 and 16. If we were in our more natural environment, tees and caves, a ten year old and 16 year old would be considered pretty well developed. The nesting, as far as evolutionary perspectives are concerned has pretty much been and gone. She should now be feeling a bit more nomadic if anything. All this questioning of masculinity too regarding the STR decision. I admire a man or woman who stands up to be counted for what they believe in, regardless of whether they are right or wrong. All the greats in history have managed that. Women like bravado and big balls on a man, I'm surprised she's not swooning at the thought of the STR. Sit her down and talk with her, at length, to find out what's really troubling her. STR it is not. Best of Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksandMortar Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 To me Big Al, being married is about building a life together. Having your own home, that you are in charge of, is an important part of that life. It seems to me that you've dismantled what you built together by selling up. It is much easier to go halves on the bank account than it is to dismantle things from scratch. You may have made it so easy for your wife to walk away now and this may be just the final thing that turned her. If I were you, I'd decide whether DrBubb's 95% wrong posts or your wife are more important to you. One way you rent a 2 bed flat & are looking to build a new life. The other way you rebuild what you had and satisfy your wife. Do you know why Roger Bootle didn't STR despite his beliefs? His wife refused. So far he should be very thankful he let her drive for a while as he was obviously drunk on his own opinions. <<<APPLAUSE>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest horace Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Big al. Look at the `call manager` on her moblie telephone. You may find a surprize there. I`ll wager it`s your best friend who`s also keeping the price of KY high. horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 <<<APPLAUSE>>> I just can`t put my finger on it at the moment but your replies remind me of another poster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Must admit at a do the other night I got sucked into a 'why are you still renting then?' discussion. With one of those so, so boring people that won't let up unless you admit they are right. In the end I said to her, look - take the furniture and pictures out of just one room, say your lounge - and stick them in the garden - then walk back into that room and tell me 'it's home!'. It's not. Its a room with four plastered walls and an artex ceiling and, when you take your furniture and pictures out of it, it's nothing - just a sterile room waiting for someone else to put furniture and pictures in it. Fortunately my wife can see this too. We have found it liberating not being home owners for a while. To the chap who started this thread, I have to agree with what a lot of people have said here - the house owning/renting thing is a symptom, not the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
large Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 If you didn't have kids it'd be a no-brainer. As others have said, I'd suspect infidelity. My marriage went tits up a few years ago, and I didn't for a moment suspect she was up to anything. About a year after the divorce I found out she'd been shagging a senior director at her firm. I am now grateful to her for what she did as I live a debt free life with a woman 12 years younger than me who is everything my ex-wife wasn't, and most of all she isn't materialistic and would rather have savings, and a bit of money to go travelling, than have a massive mortgage around our necks. Seriously, get a PI and find out what she's up to. If she's not being unfaithful, try to fix your marriage, even consider buying a house if that's what it takes, but use delaying tactics in the hope that the market will start to fall and she'll change her mind. If the PI proves what some of us here suspect, cry for a few hours, then get hard. Don't give her a penny more than you have to in the divorce, and don't feel sympathy...her lawyer will try to screw you for every last penny of that 80k, and she will come up with all kinds of sob stories and manipulations to get that money out of you (that didn't happen to me, I got the money I wanted, my ex-wife bought me out for 65k, since then the property has lost over 15k in value, and she has been trying to sell it for 9 months, but my uncle wasn't so lucky. My aunt was screwing someone else, and then completely screwed my uncle in the divorce because he was too nice.) I do really feel for you, what you are going through now and what you will go through over the next months and years is truly horrible. From my point of view, the one thing that kept me together was my Christian Faith, if I hadn't had that I think I'd have topped myself or be lying in the gutter smelling of piss by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLegallyBlonde Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 As a mother with three little girls aged 1, 3 and 5 if I can rent anyone can. I have boxes full of material I am dying to make curtains with, I would love to paint the walls pink BUT I can also see the bigger picture and I am amazed that a woman running her own business does not. I honestly think there is more to this than STR, we have had our arguments about houses, mainly hubs wanting to buy a house we can't afford but I think he's come around to my way of thinking now. It's not always the woman who wants the mill stone around the families neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest struthitsruth Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 On Pride and Respect : I think 2005 is right about the pressure of wanting to feel some pride and respect from peers. It's a tainted respect though. Just remembering the mid 80's when Margaret Thatcher came out with her famous remark "Any man who rides a bus to work after the age of 26 can count himself a failure" rather makes me think that today the equivalent taunt is "Anyone over the age of 26 who is not making capital gains in property is a failure" I've been around HPC for a while now, and to my way of thinking, capital gains have been made, but may not continue to be made indefinately, however, some people cannot see this or do not want to hear it. It can be very hard to withstand this sort of pressure and constant reminder that one's housing situation is associated with failure. On Nesting : We are buying a home which we rent out while living in rented accommodation provided by our employer. We pay a nominal rent only and no council tax, so could be considered better off than an STR. We were considering buying a second property but at a frightenly leveraged level of borrowing when I stumbled upon HPC, and have taken stock radically. We have only 10 years left on our mortgage - but you know, on a bad day, one of those when you'd just like to tell your boss where to go and what to do with the job - I'd just like to move back to live in my own home. It would just feel so much more comfortable - not materially, but emotionally - my husband feels much the same, so it's not the preserve of a woman ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once in a lifetime Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Sorry to hear your marriage is under strain big AL. I have found renting to be stressful, also. I agree with New Darker Lord. She is going through an emotional roller coaster. The topic of house price crashes is an obsession with a lot of us. A tactical plan is needed, like frugalista said. Simply; 17 yrs of marriage is stronger then 9 months of rent. I think she is just fed-up, and it’s an empty threat. I’ve tried to get my wife to visit this site and read, but she doesn’t seem that interested. (we need an off-topic Eastenders section!). I wish you and your family all the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksandMortar Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I just can`t put my finger on it at the moment but your replies remind me of another poster. whoever you're thinking of it ain't me - I hadn't heard of this site till a few days ago! take the furniture and pictures out of just one room, say your lounge - and stick them in the garden - then walk back into that room and tell me 'it's home!'. It's not. Its a room with four plastered walls and an artex ceiling and, when you take your furniture and pictures out of it, it's nothing - just a sterile room waiting for someone else to put furniture and pictures in it. Couldn't disagree more - take the people out and it's just a sterile room - which is where Al may find himself, smug in his STR but horribly sad and lonely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest struthitsruth Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Couldn't disagree more - take the people out and it's just a sterile room - which is where Al may find himself, smug in his STR but horribly sad and lonely! Couldn't disagree more with your disagreement ! Take the people out and why don't they just live in a trailer then if that's all that counts !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest consa Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Hi Big Al, Sorry to hear the story - My wife tells me she wants a divorce every day because I am a pig etc....blah blah and I offer no security for her, she is meant to be leaving today . Think it is a new year thing I just tell her I am not there to provide security and if she wants to, she can go and get a job and give me that security, why should the man do it? Then I get the - "I have a full time job at home and looking after my daughter etc..."(I do the school run in between work cos she doesn't drive) When I owned a house she threatened to boot me out once - that did it - never trust them they can be vindictive and spiteful - so I sold it. A woman's mind is something we will never understand (except for my brother who assures me he understands his wife totally ) Don't let it get you down, look at it as starting a new chapter in the book of life, you will look back and laugh about it one day, rest assured time heals the pain. Be strong and look after No.1, also prepare now for the worst case scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theChuz Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Couldn't disagree more - take the people out and it's just a sterile room - which is where Al may find himself, smug in his STR but horribly sad and lonely! smug? Its his wife that has says she wants a divorce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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