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music man

1000 Names Please And I'll Go To Court.

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Is there a lawyer on this site.

I hate the apparent lies that come from the VI's, or at the least the misinformation that is pushed the public way. And from the BBC - they should know better than to accept this.

Can we do something.

I believe in the legal system and if it can be used to our advantage then it could be for the good of us all.

The courts are there for all to use and fair news reporting is good for the nation.

For instance we could raise the public profile of our cause. I believe that if the Halifax use house asking prices then they are creating not a house price index but a house price oppinion index. I believe we can change their index title at least. It's just qualifying definitions, they may even thank me for helping them become more clear.

I give you my word that I will take the Halifax to court if I get a thousand requests and proof that they use the asking price. Bold words I know but with 1000 requests with names and addresses I'd enjoy the moment and feel I'm not on my own.

Now it's down to you my friends. I'm asking a lot I know so I guess this may not happen but the fun of it would be good. We do a voice beyond this site. O.K. we don't have the BBC but maybe they would pressured to do something.

I'm sure I have a valid point and much info can be gathered on this site.

Take this in humour or call my bluff, please call my bluff.

I guess you can mail me or something like that from the site.

Mr. Webmaster please let me know your thoughts, I just want to help and act out of respect for the truth.

Since 1984 the goverment have used this wrongly titled house price index, and maybe the government could help us. After all if you were the govt. would you let a bunch of businessmen lie to you.

I for one wouldn't and as a proud nation we need to do something about this abomination.

Come on, lets do it.

I reckon there must be a 1000 of you on this site up for it.

I annoyed with the misinformation, as you may guess and want it rectified. Someone has to do it and with your help it may be me.

I just crave honesty and a fair chance however I don't see it anymore.

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Please don’t waste your money, save it for a nice deposit.

There is always a disclaimer in the way vested interests present

their data, and it will be very difficult to nail them in court.

In some parts of this country prices are rising slowly?????

they only have to cite those statistics to make things look rosier.

The trend is going our way it just takes time.

[ Text removed by Moderator ]

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I know but the house price index is not a house price index is it.

Maybe the plain English campaign can help heh!

Nice thought though heh!

And 'em Mr. Blair is maybe someone who can help.

For 40 quid it's not a bad idea.

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Is there a lawyer on this site.

For instance we could raise the public profile of our cause. I believe that if the Halifax use house asking prices then they are creating not a house price index but a house price oppinion index. I believe we can change their index title at least. It's just qualifying definitions, they may even thank me for helping them become more clear.

Halifax don't use asking prices, they use agreed sale prices after survey.

If you look at the nationwide + halifax, you will find a dislaimer at the end saying "we can do whatever we want".

Your best route would be to sue someone like the BBC for constant mis-reporting, and misleading headlines. E.g:

"House prices move upwards again". How can it be 'again' when Hometrack have been showing falls for 18 months? I complain to the BBC but they don't do anything, it takes them several weeks to even reply.

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Is there a lawyer on this site.

I hate the apparent lies that come from the VI's, or at the least the misinformation that is pushed the public way. And from the BBC - they should know better than to accept this.

Can we do something.

I believe in the legal system and if it can be used to our advantage then it could be for the good of us all.

The courts are there for all to use and fair news reporting is good for the nation.

For instance we could raise the public profile of our cause. I believe that if the Halifax use house asking prices then they are creating not a house price index but a house price oppinion index. I believe we can change their index title at least. It's just qualifying definitions, they may even thank me for helping them become more clear.

I give you my word that I will take the Halifax to court if I get a thousand requests and proof that they use the asking price. Bold words I know but with 1000 requests with names and addresses I'd enjoy the moment and feel I'm not on my own.

Now it's down to you my friends. I'm asking a lot I know so I guess this may not happen but the fun of it would be good. We do a voice beyond this site. O.K. we don't have the BBC but maybe they would pressured to do something.

I'm sure I have a valid point and much info can be gathered on this site.

Take this in humour or call my bluff, please call my bluff.

I guess you can mail me or something like that from the site.

Mr. Webmaster please let me know your thoughts, I just want to help and act out of respect for the truth.

Since 1984 the goverment have used this wrongly titled house price index, and maybe the government could help us. After all if you were the govt. would you let a bunch of businessmen lie to you.

I for one wouldn't and as a proud nation we need to do something about this abomination.

Come on, lets do it.

I reckon there must be a 1000 of you on this site up for it.

I annoyed with the misinformation, as you may guess and want it rectified. Someone has to do it and with your help it may be me.

I just crave honesty and a fair chance however I don't see it anymore.

The remedy in law is "negligent misstatement." A person may sue a professional advisor if that advise was such that no reasonable person in that profession would have given it and by folllowing it the person relying on the advice lost money.

In the US there is some huge litigation continuing as a result of bankers (!!!) giving advice to customers on how to make money investing in the stock market. When the bubble burst thousands of people lost money investing in things that lost money. Now every investment carries a warning that things go up as well as down. The victims in the US tended to be OAPs.

EAs and VIs who mislead people into entering contracts to borrow money or buy houses when there are unreasonable risks may be liable. E.g. if an EA or VI knows that house prices are going down and advises a customer to proceed with the purchase by loaning more money than the body of professional opinion would consider prudent they are open to a claim for damages if the investment goes pearshaped.

Its a tricky area and I am not aware of too many examples of where the law has been tested. EAs and VIs cannot guarantee that a house purchase will not lose money--they are not insurers against loss but commission agents making money on sales. But EAs and VIs need to tread carefully now that the market is declining as people will be looking around for someone to sue if they get into trouble. "Creative" loans may be the point of weakness where many VIs and Eas may see some trouble as it is arguably foreseeable that a low introductory rate will inevitably rise and cause the borrower financial distress and eventual bankruptcy.

Edited by Realistbear

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I believe in the legal system and if it can be used to our advantage then it could be for the good of us all.

The courts are there for all to use and fair news reporting is good for the nation.

Lying is not illegal. What law do you think they're breaking? (Please cite either a specific Act of Parliament or a specific common law precedent, not some vague legal principle that you believe to exist, probably in error.)

The remedy in law is "negligent misstatement." A person may sue a professional advisor if that advise was such that no reasonable person in that profession would have given it and by folllowing it the person relying on the advice lost money.

EAs and VIs who mislead people into entering contracts to borrow money or buy houses when there are unreasonable risks may be liable. E.g. if an EA or VI knows that house prices are going down and advises a customer to proceed with the purchase by loaning more money than the body of professional opinion would consider prudent they are open to a claim for damages if the investment goes pearshaped.

You're correct that a professional adviser has a duty of care to his clients. But if you're buying a house, the estate agent is not your professional adviser, and has no such duty of care to you -- he acts for the seller only, not for the buyer.

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I believe in the legal system and if it can be used to our advantage then it could be for the good of us all.

The courts are there for all to use and fair news reporting is good for the nation.

If you truly believe this then you are niave beyond belief. The law is not there for the use of the ordinary person. If you have ever tried to assert your rights through the courts you will know this. The law is useless, and intentionally so, as regards the interests of the common man. The law is created by the State and its wealthy for the purposes of the State and its wealthy - not so much for cynicism as just to ensure that things can get done.

In its process, the law system serves the interest of the legal professionals. Ever been dragged into any kind of legal process? The Police openl;y admit they are embarrassed at the inexcusably arrogant, insulting way that witnesses are treated at criminal trials.

Put your money to better use. If you write a well-argued letter to the BBC they will probably publish it.

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You're correct that a professional adviser has a duty of care to his clients. But if you're buying a house, the estate agent is not your professional adviser, and has no such duty of care to you -- he acts for the seller only, not for the buyer.

Right. It depends on whose "agent" he is. If you look to an EA for professional advice and he does not exclude liability by stating he acts for the seller he may find himself in difficulty. The mortgagees may be in deeper water when they make foolish loans. Their relationship to a mortgagor may be held to be fidcuiary giving rise to all kinds of obligations to warn etc. The recent "lie to buy" scandal may have some legal repercusions both in the criminal courts and civil.

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You cannot sue VIs, like EA's mortgage lenders or the media for "lying". There is no such remedy.

The only legal avenues against "lying" would be to complain to the relevant regulator (Ofcom for the media, FSA for mortgage lenders). Broadcasters have a duty of impartiality, and you could complain to Ofcom if you think a broadcaster has breached that duty. The trouble is that the BBC is its own regulator for certain aspects, inluding the impartiality bit, so you cannot complain to Ofcom about a BBC programme being impartial. You have to take the complaint to the BBC's own complaints department. We have instigated a number of complaints to the BBC from this site, and the standard answer from the BBC is always that they do give cover to those that think prices will rise as well to those that think prices will fall. In the end, it will be very difficult to really demonstrate that the BBC is impartial, because a lot of it is subjective.

As for the mortgage lenders, they are free to compile their statistics in any way they want. It is up to public whether to believe them. The problem of course is that the media report them as gospel.

The only grounds for legal recourse in the courts would be by individuals who have suffered a loss as a result of bad advice from a person who owed them a duty of care, such as a financial advisor. You could try and make borderline cases, for example suing a mortgage lender for giving a mortgage for an overvalued property, suing a surveyor for overvaluing a property, suing a "property seminar" company that enticed people to buy overpriced off-plan flats, etc. Perhaps, one could even make a case against people like Phil Spencer, who say publicly "now is a good time to buy", but it will be very hard to show that he owed a duty of care to individuals. In any case, you would need people who have actually suffered a loss, so this will not happen until there has been a good fall in prices.

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you dont need 1000 people to take them to court. you could do it on your own.

theres always talk about chipping in for a press advertisement. ect. about 20 people would have gone to 'march', but overall your just best sitting it out. its falling apart already.

the only people buying and moving are owners already moving about. theres hardly ANY first time buyers. all the new mortgage takeups are re-mortgages. they are conning the conned already. they have no fresh victims.

your best weapon is to sit tight for 2 years.

dont buy chrome gadgets. dont buy carpets. rent as cheap as you can and hassle your landlord about repairs as much as you can. enjoy hobbies. holidays. food and maybe a nice car. keep your cash out of housing and out of the high street. its a seige. youve come this far. may as well stick it out now.

we'll starve them out. they are eating loans amongst themselves. there is no fresh food supply.

0.1%. this that and the other. recovery talk ect. one things clear.

THE BOOM IS OVER.

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Is there a lawyer on this site.

I hate the apparent lies that come from the VI's, or at the least the misinformation that is pushed the public way. And from the BBC - they should know better than to accept this.

Can we do something.

I believe in the legal system and if it can be used to our advantage then it could be for the good of us all.

The courts are there for all to use and fair news reporting is good for the nation.

For instance we could raise the public profile of our cause. I believe that if the Halifax use house asking prices then they are creating not a house price index but a house price oppinion index. I believe we can change their index title at least. It's just qualifying definitions, they may even thank me for helping them become more clear.

I give you my word that I will take the Halifax to court if I get a thousand requests and proof that they use the asking price. Bold words I know but with 1000 requests with names and addresses I'd enjoy the moment and feel I'm not on my own.

Now it's down to you my friends. I'm asking a lot I know so I guess this may not happen but the fun of it would be good. We do a voice beyond this site. O.K. we don't have the BBC but maybe they would pressured to do something.

I'm sure I have a valid point and much info can be gathered on this site.

Take this in humour or call my bluff, please call my bluff.

I guess you can mail me or something like that from the site.

Mr. Webmaster please let me know your thoughts, I just want to help and act out of respect for the truth.

Since 1984 the goverment have used this wrongly titled house price index, and maybe the government could help us. After all if you were the govt. would you let a bunch of businessmen lie to you.

I for one wouldn't and as a proud nation we need to do something about this abomination.

Come on, lets do it.

I reckon there must be a 1000 of you on this site up for it.

I annoyed with the misinformation, as you may guess and want it rectified. Someone has to do it and with your help it may be me.

I just crave honesty and a fair chance however I don't see it anymore.

I totally agree with you in principle.

there are laws governing obtaining money by deception,but I fear these are resticted to individuals rather than companies.....besides,the banks pretty much OWN the judiciary anyway.

...the loophole really is,they haven't taken money from you.you have agreed a price for an item with a vendor and they have lent you the money.

the vendor has not deceived you,nor in principle has the bank.

technically there is nothing illegal about it.....although we know full well the banks are egging on vendors to hike up their prices.

.......rich men do'nt tend to kill of rivals themselves,they will do it by proxy and hire a hitman.

maybe if there is a law about CONSPIRACY to obtain by deception it might stick......any legal eagles know if there is such??

Edited by oracle

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There are very strict laws governing how stock markets work. You cannot, for example, act in concert with other people to artificially create or depress the market for a share. Telling lies on internet forums about impending takeover bids, insider trading generally etc etc - all designed to protect consumers from the actions of sharks.

In a sense, estate agents are the market makers of the property market. To my mind, endlessly and continuously ramping the market - telling buyers if they miss out they will never get on the ladder, rabbiting endlessly on about the wonderful returns from Buy to Let - even setting up and hosting seminars on BTL - etc etc is tantamount to creating a 'false' market.

It needs someone to drag an estate agent into court to face a charge of some sort of fraudulent misrepresentation - you'd probably lose - but it would get a lot of publicity and put the fear of God into the whole corrupt business.

Estate Agents effectively offer financial advice. It is time they were regulated by the FSA. Every estate agent's property particular should have the warning...

'Property prices can go down as well as up and you may not get back the money you invest in this property. Buying a property on margin (with a huge load and a small deposit) is particularly risky and may not be suitable for people with people without very stable employment.' Blah blah.

If you could get a thousand people together interested - I'd bung £50 in. If you could get a 50k fighting fund you could make some waves.

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Thanks for indulging in my entertainment.

There clearly are ways.

By the way all laws are based on morals and ethics so that's all I need to prove in my view. Laws change you know. In fact they were invented for the good. KeEp feeding me ideas and i'll let you know the outcome in the new year.

Edited by music man

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ANOTHER APPROACH...

Might be more effective.

Look at taking UK Builders to court for reporting fraudlent prices in the the Land Registry.

How this happens:

The sell a new property, and at teh same time give "incentives" sometimes including cash rebates to buyers. As I understand it, the price that is often reported to the Land Registry is the GROSS PRICE before the cash rebate.

The Builders do this in order to:

+ Leave an official record of the sale which is ABOVE the actual net price paid, so that when others see the official price, they may be misled and willing to pay more for other similar properties in the same project,

+ Allow the buyer to try to fool the valuer and lenders into thinking the value is higher than the actual price paid. If this deception is successful, then the buyer may be able to borrow more, and thereby pay a higher price than he could if the loan had been smaller

I believe this practice of reporting fraudulent prices damages other buyers and also valuers, who they rely on "bad data" in attempting to work out market values

This issue has been picked up on Sing Pig, and there is a thread there about it.

I can provide the link

Fair point and it hasn't passed me by.

Maybe use some negotiating with them to avoid overpaying a.k.a. blackmail.

Anyone know the main building purportrators of this crime.

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Guest Charlie The Tramp

1. To approach the Land Registry, and see if they are aware of these price distortions,

The LR Dr Bubb, it`s more than their jobs worth, everything to them must be cut and dried, baked in the oven, and even then they will not accept it. Have you ever heard of a successful litigation against them ?

I managed to get them to accept two amendments to a title deed much to the amazement of my solicitor, but the third and most important one no chance. :(

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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