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If you are a sock puppet, a few questions:

Why?

Why if you are right about property do you need to do it?

What will the consequences be for the naive people that believe you are being honest and straight-forward?

What will the effects be on your conscience many years from now when you are more mature and realise what you have in effect been doing to the naive people that believe you to be honest and straight forward?

Like it.

Normally I try to ignore these posters, but some of it is getting so tiresome I'm finding it increasingly hard to do so.

Given some of the accusations flung by these types - particularly that bears are wasting their time here and should get on with living their lives - one wonders why they are so very guilty of much the same thing?

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Thanks Fancypants. I quite agree. That's why I started this thread. I don't want to give them the oxygen of replying to their baiting threads - but I'm getting sick of them.

My intution says that a large cluster of them is the same person. Whatever they say, no matter how fawningly HPC correct, or baitingly trollish, I get the same creepy feeling. It only happens with this one subset of avatars - so I imagine it's a single person.

I want to appeal to the human behind this miasma of rubbish and confusion to consider the consequences of their actions.

It is wrong to lie.

yeah, some of their techniques are growing in sophistication. It must be obvious, even to them, that the majority on here will not be swayed by their statements - I guess they are targeting the lurkers and the occasional types. Still, I think anyone who is naturally uncertain at the moment would most likely sit it out for a while - hence, most of the VI claptrap will be wasted.

I do question their agenda though - I suspect it is motivated to a large degree by fear. An unnecessary and extreme analogy would be Hitler's last moments in his bunker (Downfall fans) where he continues to believe in ultimate victory even as the last remnants of his empire crumble around him.

anyway, point being that I don't hold out too much hope of appealing to their consciences. If they're here for an extended period of time, I reckon they're just mounting a rearguard while they try and offload what they can onto greater fools.

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Being labelled as one of these sock puppets for no reason other than having my own opinions I am glad you are asking the question WHY!

If I had a VI and I beleived that everything was great I wouldnt give a F*ck about coming on here!

I also find the being accused of this insulting and makes me laugh at how dumb you are Durch for even trying to identify these non existant "puppets!"

BTW your posts annoy me so I guess we are even!

Edited by Spikey

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Guest Charlie The Tramp

If I had a VI and I beleived that everything was great I wouldnt give a F*ck about coming on here!

I also find the being accused of this insulting and makes me laugh at how dumb you are Durch for even trying to identify these non existant "puppets!"

What a strange comment from somebody who just registered on the 12th of this month. I am suspicious of some so called bears who appear too bearish to be true, all IMHO of course.

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What a strange comment from somebody who just registered on the 12th of this month. I am suspicious of some so called bears who appear too bearish to be true, all IMHO of course.

so why is that a strange comment?

I didnt even know what a "bear" was b4 coming on here so I do not know if I am too "bearish"

Funny site this how even the moderators seem to have issues with alternative views, thoughts and questions!

I am more than confused of exactly what I am being accused of but I couldnt really care less! I will continue to read but to avoid the stress different opions and views seem to give lots of you one track ponies I will post no more!

BBC - TIMES - OBSERVER - HPC site --- All VI Spin just different angles!

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Guest Charlie The Tramp

so why is that a strange comment?

I also find the being accused of this insulting and makes me laugh at how dumb you are Durch for even trying to identify these non existant "puppets!"

Why do you say they are non existant. That is a strange comment from someone who is very new to this forum.

Funny site this how even the moderators seem to have issues with alternative views, thoughts and questions!

Then you don`t really know me.

I am more than confused of exactly what I am being accused of but I couldnt really care less! I will continue to read but to avoid the stress different opions and views seem to give lots of you one track ponies I will post no more!

I was not personally accusing you of anything, my comment was a general one, but if you feel it was directed at you then as they say if the cap fits.

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Why do you say they are non existant. That is a strange comment from someone who is very new to this forum.

Then you don`t really know me.

I was not personally accusing you of anything, my comment was a general one, but if you feel it was directed at you then as they say if the cap fits.

Ok I cant bite my tongue when I know I am in the right! I am an individual with my own mind without any property! (wish I were a BTL Landlord with 500k portfolio!)

Firstly I stated that they dont exist because (apart from the odd 12 yr old entertaining him/herself once in a while) the is no logic to anyone who didnt have an interest on this site posting! or lying! (as I have been accused of!)

No I dont know you.. however I would hope that a forum moderator would not support someone making accusations.

This whole posting was aimed at me after Durch called me a sock puppet in another topic 1 min before he created this one.... I'm sorry if you cant see the link...

Im tired of this. I am going to leave the paranoid VI spinners to it. Enjoy!

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Guest Charlie The Tramp

Firstly I stated that they dont exist because (apart from the odd 12 yr old entertaining him/herself once in a while) the is no logic to anyone who didnt have an interest on this site posting! or lying! (as I have been accused of!)

Well you keep your opinion and I will keep mine. I was not aware of the said post from Durch accusing you personally until you pointed it out in you reply.

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Way to go guy's !!! :)

If anybody has the brass gonads to visit this site, and inform you poor buggers, that house prices in UK still seem pretty healthy. That properties are still being sold, despite "unaffordable" prices.....than they are obviously a "VI", or a troll, etc etc :):):)

With that, the 'data' posters, and their mouth breathing followers, all leap on the 'attack the "VI" bandwagon', and as one, tear and rent, until the last lone voice of dissent is silenced.

What you fail to realise, is that by 'killing', all and everyone who disagrees with you, are guaranteeing, that the only people who would be bothered to post on this site, would be fellow pack-hunters such as yourselves.

The end result of this, is that the only people who would then remain on this site, are those who join and remain, for no greater reason, than to support, their own insecurities, with the company, and sycophantic acquiescence, of fellow 'wannabees'.

If UK house prices, really were "Crashing", then there would be no need for such gripping, 'informative', anecdotal posts such as "Bootle prices dive 0.03 % YOY"........ ( adjusted for inflation of course ) :)

Here in Australia, the "HPC" has been under way for some time, 25% - 40% falls in sale prices are the order of the day. With no indication of where or when the market will 'bottom'.

There are a couple of notable exceptions such as Western Australia and the Northern Territory. States that occupy a large area, yet have a very low population.

But the 'boom' in those States is caused by the recent 'boom' in mineral prices, and the fact that the resulting inrush of miners, and money, has resulted in a genuine housing shortage and a surge in house prices

We have high employment, 'low' interest rates, and a stable currency, so why should the 'Housing Market' in the rest of the country, be in such decline ???

In my opinion the recent 'property boom' was inflation driven. If you buy, in the "knowledge" that your property will be worth 50% more in 'X' months time. And if interest rate = 'X' .....and housing inflation equals = 'X' + 'Y', then you would be a mug, not to have 'other peoples' money invested in your little get rich quick scheme :)

Rest easy little ones, the only thing that is required for your desired "HPC" is for properties to stop increasing in price.

Despite what the 'landlords' on this forum, would have you believe, owning a rental property as an 'investment' is rarely justified by the properties 'yield' alone.

Unless there are factors such as tax deductions, "Negative Gearing", or little bonuses such as having repairs and improvements done to your main residence and charging them against your rental property ; )

Renting for a 'profit', or as an 'investment' is almost impossible without 'Capital Gains'.

The cost of running and maintaining a rental property are usually understated by the 'landlords'. They rarely mention such incidentals as Agents fees, voids, council taxes, Central Government taxes, Legal fees, Accountant fees, Agents fees, repairs, maintenance, insurances, personal time spent on managing the "asset" etc. etc.

Without the 'guarantee, or at least the expectation of capital gains, most of today's wannabe entrapeneurs wouldn't be stupid enough to 'invest' in a such a none profit making 'asset in a falling market.

If there is no capital gain to be made, there are no large profits waiting for the 'shrewd' investor......'nothing to see here folks..... move on' .

The trouble with you kids, is that nobody ever taught you to be patient :):):)

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Being labelled as one of these sock puppets for no reason other than having my own opinions I am glad you are asking the question WHY!

If I had a VI and I beleived that everything was great I wouldnt give a F*ck about coming on here!

I also find the being accused of this insulting and makes me laugh at how dumb you are Durch for even trying to identify these non existant "puppets!"

BTW your posts annoy me so I guess we are even!

30 Year low for EA's and there is no crash on the way. O.K. you are entitled to your oppinion but not if it's without grounding on this site. That's why the site is here.

So a 30 year low even with Sipps only recently pulled and tax benefits pulled as well. A 25 Yr. mortgage represents 25 years of faith in the economy and with such bad news everywhere apart from the propaganda in the mass media.

If your grounding is with the mass media then read the sun then, not this site.

It's not that anyone thinks bad of you it's just we may question your logic.

A basic £100K mortgage will cost a lot in repayments + council tax, utilities bills and eating if you have any cash left. Maybe £1k p.mth.

That's why as a FTB there's an issue. With BTL's the only support for the pyramid system of housing which is being plugged as we speak I need say no more.

Can you tell me why there's a 30 year low please and then try to justify your thoughts. Maybe you are right, so for me please answer my question Why the 30 year low? Are prices not too high.

p.s. 174 terrace house in my area sold 7% down on the quarter. That is a crash started in my view.

Thanks HPC for not letting me get suckered. If your a FTB hen hold on in there mate.

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Guest wrongmove

If you are a sock puppet, a few questions:

Why?

Why if you are right about property do you need to do it?

What will the consequences be for the naive people that believe you are being honest and straight-forward?

What will the effects be on your conscience many years from now when you are more mature and realise what you have in effect been doing to the naive people that believe you to be honest and straight forward?

:huh:

With all respect, you could easily be talking about VIs from either side of the fence. STRs and FTBs putting off a purchase both have a very big VI too. If this site is just for bearish VIs, this should be stated in the rules, IMHO.

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Guest Bart of Darkness

If I had a VI and I beleived that everything was great I wouldnt give a F*ck about coming on here!

Well that would certainly make sense to me. However we used to have a rather sad poster called Apollo1966 who obviously thought in a different (less sensible) way to you and I. She was some sort of minor EA who (apparently) had plenty of time on her hands. Rather than spending this extra time interacting with real people she spent a considerable amount of her day as a VI sock puppet on here, ramping up the market in Manchester.

Just goes to show, it takes all sorts. :)

I also find the being accused of this insulting and makes me laugh at how dumb you are Durch for even trying to identify these non existant "puppets!"

Durch is far better than I am at identifying patterns of posting (written style, spelling and grammatical errors etc.) so he's fairly experienced in spotting the genuineness or otherwise of a poster. He may have made a mistake with you Spikey (although he didn't single you out here by name, have you had a run in on another thread?) but don't write off his judgement just because of that.

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Way to go guy's !!! :)

If anybody has the brass gonads to visit this site, and inform you poor buggers, that house prices in UK still seem pretty healthy. That properties are still being sold, despite "unaffordable" prices.....than they are obviously a "VI", or a troll, etc etc :):):)

With that, the 'data' posters, and their mouth breathing followers, all leap on the 'attack the "VI" bandwagon', and as one, tear and rent, until the last lone voice of dissent is silenced.

What you fail to realise, is that by 'killing', all and everyone who disagrees with you, are guaranteeing, that the only people who would be bothered to post on this site, would be fellow pack-hunters such as yourselves.

The end result of this, is that the only people who would then remain on this site, are those who join and remain, for no greater reason, than to support, their own insecurities, with the company, and sycophantic acquiescence, of fellow 'wannabees'.

If UK house prices, really were "Crashing", then there would be no need for such gripping, 'informative', anecdotal posts such as "Bootle prices dive 0.03 % YOY"........ ( adjusted for inflation of course ) :)

Here in Australia, the "HPC" has been under way for some time, 25% - 40% falls in sale prices are the order of the day. With no indication of where or when the market will 'bottom'.

There are a couple of notable exceptions such as Western Australia and the Northern Territory. States that occupy a large area, yet have a very low population.

But the 'boom' in those States is caused by the recent 'boom' in mineral prices, and the fact that the resulting inrush of miners, and money, has resulted in a genuine housing shortage and a surge in house prices

We have high employment, 'low' interest rates, and a stable currency, so why should the 'Housing Market' in the rest of the country, be in such decline ???

In my opinion the recent 'property boom' was inflation driven. If you buy, in the "knowledge" that your property will be worth 50% more in 'X' months time. And if interest rate = 'X' .....and housing inflation equals = 'X' + 'Y', then you would be a mug, not to have 'other peoples' money invested in your little get rich quick scheme :)

Rest easy little ones, the only thing that is required for your desired "HPC" is for properties to stop increasing in price.

Despite what the 'landlords' on this forum, would have you believe, owning a rental property as an 'investment' is rarely justified by the properties 'yield' alone.

Unless there are factors such as tax deductions, "Negative Gearing", or little bonuses such as having repairs and improvements done to your main residence and charging them against your rental property ; )

Renting for a 'profit', or as an 'investment' is almost impossible without 'Capital Gains'.

The cost of running and maintaining a rental property are usually understated by the 'landlords'. They rarely mention such incidentals as Agents fees, voids, council taxes, Central Government taxes, Legal fees, Accountant fees, Agents fees, repairs, maintenance, insurances, personal time spent on managing the "asset" etc. etc.

Without the 'guarantee, or at least the expectation of capital gains, most of today's wannabe entrapeneurs wouldn't be stupid enough to 'invest' in a such a none profit making 'asset in a falling market.

If there is no capital gain to be made, there are no large profits waiting for the 'shrewd' investor......'nothing to see here folks..... move on' .

The trouble with you kids, is that nobody ever taught you to be patient :):):)

good post

like the comment about patience although some on here have been patient for some years alreadty!!

i have been impressed by the speed of the correction in oz and the recent movements in usa markets

it seems slower here, but it may just be the stronger spin reporting of the vis who want to keep prices up.

you make good points not to mass attack posters with non bear views.

i think in general these people do get a good opportnity ( eg time to raise the rents)

my problem is that few of them put forward reasoned arguments backed up with relevant data to support their views.

many bears on this forum try and present arguments backed up by facts generally not distorted to prove a point

do you have any indices which track prices in say Sidney, Brisbane?

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If you are a sock puppet, a few questions:

Why?

Why if you are right about property do you need to do it?

What will the consequences be for the naive people that believe you are being honest and straight-forward?

What will the effects be on your conscience many years from now when you are more mature and realise what you have in effect been doing to the naive people that believe you to be honest and straight forward?

Like the thread however I fear you will be wasting your time as these individuals have no humility and hearts of darkness.

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Patience is a virtue in the property game.

I have bought and sold many houses in the last 31 years, but I have only been an OO for 24 of them. The rest of the time I rented while I waited for the property cycles to play out. Buy low, sell high and then sit on the sidelines with cash in your pocket.

Will I buy again? Possibly, but only when prices are sensible and it becomes cheaper to buy than to rent. Meanwhile I am perfectly happy to rent inexpensively and invest my money in better places than inflated bricks and mortar.

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30 Year low for EA's and there is no crash on the way. O.K. you are entitled to your oppinion but not if it's without grounding on this site. That's why the site is here.

So a 30 year low even with Sipps only recently pulled and tax benefits pulled as well. A 25 Yr. mortgage represents 25 years of faith in the economy and with such bad news everywhere apart from the propaganda in the mass media.

I wish some people on this site would stop misquoting/misunderstanding this 30 year low thing - Countrywide one EA reported a 30 year low not all EA's = by the way I think prices are stagnating/dropping and I am not a landlord etc etc but I do think this is very misleading for people reading the posts on the site this is only one of many threads I have noticed it on - rant over

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30 Year low for EA's and there is no crash on the way. O.K. you are entitled to your oppinion but not if it's without grounding on this site. That's why the site is here.

So a 30 year low even with Sipps only recently pulled and tax benefits pulled as well. A 25 Yr. mortgage represents 25 years of faith in the economy and with such bad news everywhere apart from the propaganda in the mass media.

I wish some people on this site would stop misquoting/misunderstanding this 30 year low thing - Countrywide one EA reported a 30 year low not all EA's = by the way I think prices are stagnating/dropping and I am not a landlord etc etc but I do think this is very misleading for people reading the posts on the site this is only one of many threads I have noticed it on - rant over

VI Spin just from a different angle........ Shame the HPC side of the coin is full of same crap as the HPI!

take the facts and spin them to whatever you want! .. Oh just make sure u are 100% bear if you spinning on here! otherwise u r a VI with BTL's coming outta ur **** and a hand up it

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VI Spin just from a different angle........ Shame the HPC side of the coin is full of same crap as the HPI!

take the facts and spin them to whatever you want! .. Oh just make sure u are 100% bear if you spinning on here! otherwise u r a VI with BTL's coming outta ur **** and a hand up it

None of what I said is spin what I am trying to point out is that some people in the eagerness to predict a crash are misquoting/misrepresenting news items - namely this 30 year low - COUNTRYWIDE handled the lowest amount of house sales in 30 years - house sales in this country ARE NOT at a 30 year low

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None of what I said is spin what I am trying to point out is that some people in the eagerness to predict a crash are misquoting/misrepresenting news items - namely this 30 year low - COUNTRYWIDE handled the lowest amount of house sales in 30 years - house sales in this country ARE NOT at a 30 year low

You misunderstood me Sparkle. What I was trying to say is that it is VI spin making the 30yr low seem bigger than it really is. Like you said 1 company is not the whole industry!

VI is used to indicate the Bulls. VI's can be bears too and they spin it a good un on here and attack anyone with other opinions or questions that make spin harder!

Rant over!

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You misunderstood me Sparkle. What I was trying to say is that it is VI spin making the 30yr low seem bigger than it really is. Like you said 1 company is not the whole industry!

VI is used to indicate the Bulls. VI's can be bears too and they spin it a good un on here and attack anyone with other opinions or questions that make spin harder!

Rant over!

ooh right sorry

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But to be honest I think we have to acknowledge that there are VIs on both sides.

A STR who is doesn't want to look foolish and end up losing lots of money for example, will understandably be quite desperate to talk up the prospect of a crash, in much the same way as someone who makes their living from rising house prices e.g. estate agents etc.

Everything that is said on the subject of house prices has to be passed through a 'bias filter' - whichever side it comes from, imho.

Edited by Londoner

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Amazing display of unity.

Durch - I hadn't really considered this fully until you raised it, but since this thread started (and today in particular) I have noticed a proliferation of bulls or quasi-bears all employing *exactly* the same arguments... crash denial.

For example, "no evidence of a crash here yet" "prices still rising round here", and these statements are rarely, if ever, backed up with any evidence.

Now I might accept this if it were not for the fact that there is an unusual degree of harmony between the arguments made - and more tellingly, the way those arguments are made.

The HPC deniers are sounding increasingly like desperate and deluded holocaust deniers. Although I will accept that I could be compared to a hardline communist determined to airbrush the story my way! :D

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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