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Type 26 Frigates Delayed Indefinitley.

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http://www.scotsman.com/news/type-26-delay-called-an-absolute-disgrace-after-mod-admission-1-4182385

Nationalist politicians and shipbuilding unions have reacted furiously after the Ministry of Defence admitted there is no start date for the new Type 26 frigate fleet to be built on the Clyde.

There be layoff's i tell thee ;)

Edited by workingpoor

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First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the admission was a “disgraceful betrayal” of shipyard workers after it was made at a meeting of the House of Commons defence select committee.

And if Scotland was independent then none of them would being built on the Clyde.

Bit of a non-story no? Delayed because the design isn't yet completed.

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And if Scotland was independent then none of them would being built on the Clyde.

Bit of a non-story no? Delayed because the design isn't yet completed.

Well steelcutting was supposed to start this year, according to media reports, the Clyde yards have been thrown an OPV here and there to keep them ticking over since

jan 2014.

This looks like there will be no start on the T26's until well into the 2020's.

I'm not convinced they will ever get started.

Edited by workingpoor

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The type-23s will need to replaced eventually, what do you think they'll do instead if the type-26s aren't built? Buy a US ship off-the-shelf?

From what I've read elsewhere there seemed to be some expectations that the type-26 design could have good export potential. Aimed to be a modern leander class export success?

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The type-23s will need to replaced eventually, what do you think they'll do instead if the type-26s aren't built? Buy a US ship off-the-shelf?

From what I've read elsewhere there seemed to be some expectations that the type-26 design could have good export potential. Aimed to be a modern leander class export success?

Buy the proven FREMME Frigate off the shelf from Italy / France.

No exports from UK (too expensive)

Edited by workingpoor

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http://www.scotsman.com/news/type-26-delay-called-an-absolute-disgrace-after-mod-admission-1-4182385

Nationalist politicians and shipbuilding unions have reacted furiously after the Ministry of Defence admitted there is no start date for the new Type 26 frigate fleet to be built on the Clyde.

There be layoff's i tell thee ;)

Why are they talking about building them on the Clyde at all?

Time to prepare for Scottish independence and move all that to Devonport or something, rather than being caught pants down.

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Buy the proven FREMME Frigate off the shelf from Italy / France.

No exports from UK (too expensive)

I really hope you're wrong there, although sadly I suspect our politicians really are that short-sighted.

Anyone else think that the classification of Royal Navy ships has become misleading?

Type 45 is officially a destroyer but is large enough to be cruiser

Type 26 is officially a frigate but is large enough to be a destroyer

The type 26 “frigate” has an estimated displacement of 6900T

The previous generations type 42 destroyer had a displacement of just over 5000T

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http://www.scotsman.com/news/type-26-delay-called-an-absolute-disgrace-after-mod-admission-1-4182385

Nationalist politicians and shipbuilding unions have reacted furiously after the Ministry of Defence admitted there is no start date for the new Type 26 frigate fleet to be built on the Clyde.

There be layoff's i tell thee ;)

The SNP "government" is nothing more than some kids sitting in dad's car going "vroom vroom" as they think they're racing drivers?

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I really hope you're wrong there, although sadly I suspect our politicians really are that short-sighted.

Anyone else think that the classification of Royal Navy ships has become misleading?

Type 45 is officially a destroyer but is large enough to be cruiser

Type 26 is officially a frigate but is large enough to be a destroyer

The type 26 “frigate” has an estimated displacement of 6900T

The previous generations type 42 destroyer had a displacement of just over 5000T

Definitions change with time. After all our "frigates" aren't three-masted, sail-powered with at least 28 guns on a single deck but too small to stand in the line of battle. Current RN usage seems to be "frigate" for a ship with a more anti-submarine role and "destroyer" for anti-air (and not for attacking torpedo boats, which is the origin of "destroyer", from "torpedo boat destroyer").

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Why doesn't Scotland build them and then lease them to the total navy?

Because it's too expensive

Taxpayers will foot the bill to fix £1bn warships that break down in Persian Gulf because ships are 'out of warranty'

Taxpayers will have to foot the bill to refit warships that break down in the Persian Gulf when the water becomes too warm, because they are ‘out of warranty’. The Ministry of Defence said the ‘arduous’ conditions that made the £1billion Type 45 Destroyers ‘degrade catastrophically’ were not covered by the guarantee. Engines on the six warships fail because the intercooler units, which reduce heat from the exhaust, slow down in warm waters, leaving the engine unable to generate enough power.

Edited by rollover

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Definitions change with time. After all our "frigates" aren't three-masted, sail-powered with at least 28 guns on a single deck but too small to stand in the line of battle. Current RN usage seems to be "frigate" for a ship with a more anti-submarine role and "destroyer" for anti-air (and not for attacking torpedo boats, which is the origin of "destroyer", from "torpedo boat destroyer").

If anything, given automation and reduced crews, shouldn't ships be getting smaller?

I suspect this is more to do with politics. Last generation, 12 destroyers, no cruisers. New generation build six cruisers, pretend they are destroyers and claim the fleet has halved. Makes it easier to defend RN budget.

Maybe I'm becoming too cynical.

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Which countries are likely to place an export order with a UK Shipyard for Naval Vessels?

They all want to build their own in house for jobs / economic boost etc etc.

Or have the Hulls built in Korea on the cheap and do the outfitting themselves.

See the RFA M.A.R.S refuelling tanker contract placed with Daewoo Korea by the MOD.

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Not sure if this is confirmed or not:

Type-26 Frigates cut from 13 vessels to 8.

A new cheaper/smaller type-31 to be designed, with 5 planned to be constructed.

It was always going to be 8 anti-submarine t26, then another 5 frigates based on the same hull.

It now looks like the additional 5 will be 'something else'. Lots of talk about the BMT Venator, which is about 1/2 the displacement of the T26 - so should be cheaper to build, as well as lower manning costs etc.

I think it makes sense - the T26 is a 'big' frigate and a set of smaller frigates would expand capability (eg, the smaller ship could work in shallower waters, allowing a littoral role).

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Why all the firepower if there is not big war? Or is one being planned for?

I think this is a good point - a number of smaller frigates would make more sense from a maritime-security point of view. The type 26 is almost as big as a destroyer, and you don't really need them outside of a war.

Other than that - your comment could describe the majority of any country's armed forces - you don't support them for today's needs, but what you fear tomorrow's needs might be.

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I think this is a good point - a number of smaller frigates would make more sense from a maritime-security point of view. The type 26 is almost as big as a destroyer, and you don't really need them outside of a war.

Other than that - your comment could describe the majority of any country's armed forces - you don't support them for today's needs, but what you fear tomorrow's needs might be.

Why you or anyone else need the needs? And the fear factor?

Once you build them, you will not leave them to rust. The huge cost have to be justified.

Edited by rollover

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Why you or anyone else need the needs? And the fear factor?

Once you build them, you will not leave them to rust. The huge cost have to be justified.

That argument might be true for the USA, Russia, China, etc. But Britain's armed forces are now too small to be thought of in that way. There's barely enough RN to cope with a bit of contribution to anti-piracy and drugs type operations.

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That argument might be true for the USA, Russia, China, etc. But Britain's armed forces are now too small to be thought of in that way. There's barely enough RN to cope with a bit of contribution to anti-piracy and drugs type operations.

I'm sure the equipment and organisation of the UK's armed forces has its flaws, and it probably is underfunded given our commitments.

However is your comment really true or is just one of those “we're shit” memes that seem to be common in the UK?

Out of the 195ish countries:

UK military spending comes 5th

UK has 8 destroyers, yes much less than USA/China but only 13 countries in the world are able to field destroyer level ships.

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Why all the firepower if there is not big war? Or is one being planned for?

Because no one knows what the future holds and it's best to be prepared. Having a strong military adds a lot to our bargaining power too.

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That argument might be true for the USA, Russia, China, etc. But Britain's armed forces are now too small to be thought of in that way. There's barely enough RN to cope with a bit of contribution to anti-piracy and drugs type operations.

We don't need Type 45 / Type 26 vessels for anti piracy / drug operations.

Might as well build half a dozen of these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt-class_destroyer

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http://www.scotsman.com/news/type-26-delay-called-an-absolute-disgrace-after-mod-admission-1-4182385

Nationalist politicians and shipbuilding unions have reacted furiously after the Ministry of Defence admitted there is no start date for the new Type 26 frigate fleet to be built on the Clyde.

There be layoff's i tell thee ;)

Great, they can get into BTL now

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