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EmmaRoid

Retrospective Reaming Of Graduates Under Usurious Student Loan System

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A debate in parliament today to discuss the reneging of a promise from 2010 to increase the earning threshold for repayments from 2017. Lying scum.

Sad to hear Martin Lewis on the radio talking about this given his role in convincing youngsters that the system was credible. Shame on you.

Still, those pensioners deserve their triple lock.

Edited by 24 year mortgage 8itch

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Said it at the time.

Any MP who voted for tutition fees (or/and their increases) should retrospectively pay every single penny back of their education they got for free. I wonder how the vote would have gone then?

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The top-up fee bill only passed courtesy of Labour's Scottish MPs voting with the Coalition. Of course the bill didn't apply to scotland so no need to worry about a backlash from their constituents. Got theirs in the end though.

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Presumably the governbankment needs to find a few more of the proverbial 50 pences down the back of the sofa. Bad luck students & graduates....

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I doubt the triple lock will survive for much longer either......TPTB need every penny they can get just to pay the interest on all their loans.....

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I doubt the triple lock will survive for much longer either......TPTB need every penny they can get just to pay the interest on all their loans.....

Indeed. A minimum of 2.5% is far too high when you have ZIRP.

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I've always wondered how many students have actually read up on the terms of the loan, how the threshold works and the interest structure. Not many as most tend to think of it as a grant/free money and are very short termist in outlook.

I would be more concerned about the long term prospects of changes to those terms and conditions resulting in the fact that they never clear the debt or are obsolved of it.

A student loan is a mortgage on your life to add to the mortgage/rent on a house and saving for a pension etc, all of which will have to be paid along with everyday expenses before you can have any nice stuff.

These are the obligations and commitmnets that mean that Western economies will never recover as they are increasingly forced to compete with nations who do not have these overheads.

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I've always wondered how many students have actually read up on the terms of the loan, how the threshold works and the interest structure. Not many as most tend to think of it as a grant/free money and are very short termist in outlook.

I would be more concerned about the long term prospects of changes to those terms and conditions resulting in the fact that they never clear the debt or are obsolved of it.

A student loan is a mortgage on your life to add to the mortgage/rent on a house and saving for a pension etc, all of which will have to be paid along with everyday expenses before you can have any nice stuff.

These are the obligations and commitmnets that mean that Western economies will never recover as they are increasingly forced to compete with nations who do not have these overheads.

Good post, sums it all up.

I've noticed friends with kids going to University all seem to have fallen for the line "Don't worry, you'll never have to pay it back". They assume they will never earn enough, terms will never change and that the payments are small (only £300/month if they ever get to £40k/yr).

I don't know where they get those ideas from, maybe presentations at the schools?? £300/month is a lot of money!

Hopefully, my kids will earn enough that they will be liable to pay it back. So the trick is to get the qualification without the debt, I'm looking into the best ways to do that.

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Good post, sums it all up.

I've noticed friends with kids going to University all seem to have fallen for the line "Don't worry, you'll never have to pay it back". They assume they will never earn enough, terms will never change and that the payments are small (only £300/month if they ever get to £40k/yr).

I don't know where they get those ideas from, maybe presentations at the schools?? £300/month is a lot of money!

Hopefully, my kids will earn enough that they will be liable to pay it back. So the trick is to get the qualification without the debt, I'm looking into the best ways to do that.

Which is the problem with this proposed change to the original proposal. This fiscal drag penalises those who will not repay the loans and sets the tone for further reaming in the future.

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What a shock, not.

Political class needed to hide their inability to create meaningful employment but surely it'd too expensive to hide unemployed.

"No, said the smiling bankster, get them to borrow the fees and you can have you cake and eat it, plus they'll be hooked on the financialization drug for life meaning we can leach off them for life. Brilliant just see to it, and close the door on your way out I've got to finish my guitar practice, said Tony."

In our ZIRP environment the only thing I see waking people up would be a rate rise. Most have no idea of how much interest they're paying or how much they owe.

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Good post, sums it all up.

I've noticed friends with kids going to University all seem to have fallen for the line "Don't worry, you'll never have to pay it back". They assume they will never earn enough, terms will never change and that the payments are small (only £300/month if they ever get to £40k/yr).

I don't know where they get those ideas from, maybe presentations at the schools?? £300/month is a lot of money!

Hopefully, my kids will earn enough that they will be liable to pay it back. So the trick is to get the qualification without the debt, I'm looking into the best ways to do that.

Bang on.My experience echoes yours.All I ever hear is

'Well,I won't have to pay it back unless I earn £21k ....' etc.

I wouldn't be so sure.When you're fifty and finally got some equity in your house,it may not be too pleasant finding out the giovt has sold the debt on at 5p in the £ and the piper wants his cash.

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Going to university in the UK (let alone the US) makes absolutely no sense (unless you're Scottish in Scotland, obviously).

How about moving to Slovenia and do it for free, whilst meeting people from all over the planet and having an international experience?

Nope, 60k debt to get a degree in marketing from the university of Lincoln makes sense...

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Going to university in the UK (let alone the US) makes absolutely no sense (unless you're Scottish in Scotland, obviously).

How about moving to Slovenia and do it for free, whilst meeting people from all over the planet and having an international experience?

Nope, 60k debt to get a degree in marketing from the university of Lincoln makes sense...

Don't be confused by headline numbers from the US / shock stories about the costs of buying a degree in the USA.

The US college system has considerable built-in mechanisms for supporting students. There are local and state grants for poorer students and for anyone with talent. Also the colleges themselves have bursaries / awards / scholarships. Their headline fees are like train tickets / sofas - you might have to pay the 'full' price, but many people get a discount. Also note that there a local colleges which are much cheaper than the famous universities, and that some courses are far more expensive than others.

That's not to say that they have this perfect system in the USA, but when people say that it costs $300k to study at Harvard don't think that everyone pays $300k to study anything anywhere - unlike the UK system...

Average student debt in UK £45K, average student debt in USA $35k.

And even this average is skewed by the expensive courses (mainly medicine, law) and colleges - only a couple of a % of students in the US will have debts higher than the UK average... While in the UK debts are set by the system - most students will have debt around about the average.

[you might also see a strange inequality in this - in the UK you pay about the same whoever you are. It costs about the same to study Law/Medicine/Classics/PPE at Oxford as to study drama at Southampton... Wonder who this sort of system would benefit / punish?]

Edited by dgul

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Don't be confused by headline numbers from the US / shock stories about the costs of buying a degree in the USA.

The US college system has considerable built-in mechanisms for supporting students. There are local and state grants for poorer students and for anyone with talent. Also the colleges themselves have bursaries / awards / scholarships. Their headline fees are like train tickets / sofas - you might have to pay the 'full' price, but many people get a discount. Also note that there a local colleges which are much cheaper than the famous universities, and that some courses are far more expensive than others.

That's not to say that they have this perfect system in the USA, but when people say that it costs $300k to study at Harvard don't think that everyone pays $300k to study anything anywhere - unlike the UK system...

Average student debt in UK £45K, average student debt in USA $35k.

And even this average is skewed by the expensive courses (mainly medicine, law) and colleges - only a couple of a % of students in the US will have debts higher than the UK average... While in the UK debts are set by the system - most students will have debt around about the average.

[you might also see a strange inequality in this - in the UK you pay about the same whoever you are. It costs about the same to study Law/Medicine/Classics/PPE at Oxford as to study drama at Southampton... Wonder who this sort of system would benefit / punish?]

Thanks for the comments. Insightful, especially as I am looking at doing a Research Degree in a field that I believe is underdeveloped, linked to sociology and economics.

Cost is a big factor.

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It will not be long before a populist government offers free education for all and wiping out of student debt. Too many people with zero stake in society so will vote for what they perceive to be 'free shit'.

I would like to see courses that offer genuine careers that benefit society be fully funded for those that reach the level required complete with generous bursary. I doubt that would ever be a vote winner though as we are all special flowers.

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It will not be long before a populist government offers free education for all and wiping out of student debt. Too many people with zero stake in society so will vote for what they perceive to be 'free shit'.

I would like to see courses that offer genuine careers that benefit society be fully funded for those that reach the level required complete with generous bursary. I doubt that would ever be a vote winner though as we are all special flowers.

This isn't free 'shit' as you call it.

They've been charged a premium once and now the government has decided to charge them an extra premium it promised not to.

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By free shit I mean free university education for all regardless of ability in what ever subject they want.

I obviously think it is disgusting that rules are being changed on debt that has already been taken on.

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Agree that current generation is getting screwed from all sides.

On a small positive, less disposable income is a further downward pressure on house prices.

Eventually, I can see 3 outcomes depending on class of student:

- richest - affected the least, parents can pay, and no huge future interest costs

- poorest - may as well load up on debt as are expecting never to repay it

- middle - will remove themselves from the system:

- get forced to learn foreign languages and stay out of UK for study

or

- employers will start becoming more flexible on degree requirement as they can pay those people less for the same net pay

or

- some truly affordable distance learning alternatives will appear (Open University degree really shouldn't be £6k per year!)

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Student loan repayments makes a big dent into my wages. Its £250 quid + a month out of disposable income.

And they wonder why young people don't spend enough in the consumer economy

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- some truly affordable distance learning alternatives will appear (Open University degree really shouldn't be £6k per year!)

This is the big draw bridge riser.

Edited by PopGun

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Agree that current generation is getting screwed from all sides.

On a small positive, less disposable income is a further downward pressure on house prices.

Eventually, I can see 3 outcomes depending on class of student:

- richest - affected the least, parents can pay, and no huge future interest costs

- poorest - may as well load up on debt as are expecting never to repay it

- middle - will remove themselves from the system:

- get forced to learn foreign languages and stay out of UK for study

or

- employers will start becoming more flexible on degree requirement as they can pay those people less for the same net pay

or

- some truly affordable distance learning alternatives will appear (Open University degree really shouldn't be £6k per year!)

Is free affordable enough?

https://www.edx.org/

I did a Microsoft course on here for Power Query and Power Pivot that has been a huge help to me in work. I paid to buy the certificate just to chuck some money at them for giving me something so useful.

I'm currently doing the Harvard CS50 computer science course.

This thing isn't fully developed yet, but it's obvious that all but the very best universities are facing a future crisis. Why would you pay through the nose to attend an inferior course at poorly thought of ex-poly when you can do the same subject online with the best universities in the world for free? The only issue I can see (and to be fair is a big one) is validation that you have done the course, and that's easy. You just set up invigilated exam centres for students to come and sit exams (the accountancy profession already does this)

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