Setantii Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Blue Labour and Red Tories banding together to form a new 'Centrist' party?!Perhaps they should name it The Neo-Liberal Party, or maybe the 'Establishment' Party?http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-tory-mps-talk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Blue Labour and Red Tories banding together to form a new 'Centrist' party?! Perhaps they should name it The Neo-Liberal Party, or maybe the 'Establishment' Party? http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-tory-mps-talk ..sounds like a band of elitists trying to stop democracy....suggest they emigrate to Noth Korea ....political climate will suit them...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneyfornothing Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Some people are determined not to get the message from the people they are supposed to represent... hope the electorate remember and sort them out at next opportunity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Guardian wishful thinking w.nk. Cons are not splitting. Labour are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Guardian wishful thinking w.nk. Cons are not splitting. Labour are. If Leadsom wins the leadership contest that could easily split the parliamentary party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDevil Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Blue Labour and Red Tories banding together to form a new 'Centrist' party?!Perhaps they should name it The Neo-Liberal Party, or maybe the 'Establishment' Party?http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-tory-mps-talk Establishment Party, Like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) Very hard for this to happen under first past the post. The flip side of FPTP giving big majorities to parties who win 35% of the vote is 3rd and smaller parties get very few seats relative to vote share, as the SDP discovered in the 1983 general election (Wikipedia): In the 1983 general election, the SDP–Liberal Alliance won more than 25% of the national vote, close behind Labour's 28%, but well behind the 44% secured by the Conservatives. However, because of the first-past-the-post electoral system used in the United Kingdom, only 23 Alliance MPs were elected, six of whom were members of the SDP. How many of those Labour and Tory 'moderates' (or whatever they want to call themselves) would be willing to give up their safe seats for almost certain electoral oblivion? There is probably room in the range of public opinion for half a dozen UK parties (plus the Scot/Wal/NI nats) but FPTP is preventing that from emerging, hence the huge rifts in both major parties. Edited July 10, 2016 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scepticus Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I think having more parties is a good thing. Sometimes there is simply to much negativity and vitriol on HPC to be credible. If FPTP then becomes an issue, it can be changed. While I voted out, I do think that a Centrist LabCon 'remain' party would get a lot of votes. I'd certainly find it hard to vote for Mrs BTL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUBanana Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Lets call them the LibLabCon party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patient London FTB Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Very possible we're headed for a time of smaller parties and uneasy coalitions. How European ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 If FPTP then becomes an issue, it can be changed. Now that Labour have lost Scotland I guess it will be changed as there is now only one party capable of forming a single party government under FPTP: the Tories. When they eventually lose their Parliamentary majority (GE2025?) the other parties may come together to reform the electoral system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUBanana Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Then it'll be total paralysis and establishment stitch ups for all time. Great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) Lets call them the LibLabCon party? +1 All it needs now is for them to register the name to make it official. They're just admitting the political reality of the past few years and decades with people effectively having no real choice to vote for.. It's probably a good thing as it allows people to identify a lot of the political deceivers and vote them right out of politics. Edited July 10, 2016 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Some people are determined not to get the message from the people they are supposed to represent... hope the electorate remember and sort them out at next opportunity Turkeys forming the Bernard Mathews party comes to mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBlueCat Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 If Leadsom wins the leadership contest that could easily split the parliamentary party. I don't see it myself. Leadsom isn't any more extreme vs. the rest of the parliamentary party than IDS was during his time as leader and they didn't split then. The choice - and this is just the same as for Labour MPs at the moment - is to stay within the party and have a very good chance of re-election in 2020 or to walk away and most likely lose their seats. Forming a whole new political movement with the kind of funding and on the ground support needed to campaign effectively during a GE takes years (just look at how long UKIP took to get going properly) not mention a ton of cash. Note how the last lot to try this ended up merging with the Liberals rather than going it alone long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Lets call them the LibLabCon party? ..emphasis on the 'con'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WageWar Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Establishment Party, Like. The 'establishment' still actually looks better than an extreme right wing God bothering thick **** with a load of violent nationalist support behind her. The politics of the right have been proper basket case politics so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I don't see it myself. Leadsom isn't any more extreme vs. the rest of the parliamentary party than IDS was during his time as leader and they didn't split then. The choice - and this is just the same as for Labour MPs at the moment - is to stay within the party and have a very good chance of re-election in 2020 or to walk away and most likely lose their seats. Forming a whole new political movement with the kind of funding and on the ground support needed to campaign effectively during a GE takes years (just look at how long UKIP took to get going properly) not mention a ton of cash. Note how the last lot to try this ended up merging with the Liberals rather than going it alone long term. I don't think the issue is one of extremeness so much as it is one of capability, credibility and sound judgement. Also, IDS wasn't being promoted directly to Prime Minister during a period of crucial international negotiations which could define this country for a generation or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunko2010 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 The 'establishment' still actually looks better than an extreme right wing God bothering thick **** with a load of violent nationalist support behind her. The politics of the right have been proper basket case politics so far. They're missing you over at the Guardian already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBlueCat Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I think this idea is now dead in the water. With May as PM by the end of the week the Tories will be ripping into the stinking corpse of Labour and looking at a whopping majority at the next GE. There's zero chance of any of them walking away from that to join a new party with a big chance of losing their seat. I still think Labour might split. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunko2010 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I think this idea is now dead in the water. With May as PM by the end of the week the Tories will be ripping into the stinking corpse of Labour and looking at a whopping majority at the next GE. There's zero chance of any of them walking away from that to join a new party with a big chance of losing their seat. I still think Labour might split. A whopping majority? The next GE will be around 2020, when we'll still be in the EU. Are the 17M people who voted for us to Leave all going to have changed their minds by then and let it slide? I don't think so. She'll get annihilated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 The 'establishment' still actually looks better than an extreme right wing God bothering thick **** with a load of violent nationalist support behind her. The politics of the right have been proper basket case politics so far. ..yeah...what do you call Corbyn's politics....?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I think this idea is now dead in the water. With May as PM by the end of the week the Tories will be ripping into the stinking corpse of Labour and looking at a whopping majority at the next GE. There's zero chance of any of them walking away from that to join a new party with a big chance of losing their seat. I still think Labour might split. What's the Tory plan to appeal to people who don't own houses and don't have nice DB pensions? I don't see one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBlueCat Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) What's the Tory plan to appeal to people who don't own houses and don't have nice DB pensions? I don't see one. Their only plan is not to be Labour, I'm very sure that will be enough. People forget that the Tories weren't exactly popular under Thatcher, it was mainly that Labour was a sh1t-show that won it for them. Edited July 11, 2016 by TheBlueCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBlueCat Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 A whopping majority? The next GE will be around 2020, when we'll still be in the EU. Are the 17M people who voted for us to Leave all going to have changed their minds by then and let it slide? I don't think so. She'll get annihilated. I wish that were so, but don't hold your breath. Those 17M people are not going to vote for Corbyn whatever happens. They may go to any of the others parties but FPTP ensures that the single party that has its act together the most wins. I don't think this would be a good result for the country at all, but it's what's going to happen unless Labour magically finds a serious leader from somewhere and gets rid of Corbyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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