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No mention of savers being f**ked then.

No mention of central banks pumping up the FTSE either?

Or that we are 2 weeks removed from the vote and the pound and the UK's economic uncertainty are at historic lows.

Or that our 8%/44% (UK exports/EU imports) reciprocal trade arrangements with the EU is nothing to be concerned about with potential tariffs and decades of re-negotiations.

Or a whole multitude of other niggling problems.

Imagine, a reputable rag like the Express not stating fact.

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FTSE companies have a lot of revenues and assets in dollars, so their bounce-back is to be expected in sterling terms. As regards to the property market, make no mistake, the FEAR phase has definitely kicked off in London. Brexit ticks all the boxes for a needle to ***** the bubble.

  • Expectation of rental income is down
  • Expectation of population growth is down
  • Expectation of income growth is down
  • Expectation of flood of foreign buyers is gone
  • Foreigners feeling unwelcome
  • General uncertainty and job insecurity

All of this is on top of the stamp duty and mortgage interest tax changes for BTL, which were going to crash the market even without Brexit.

Finally, there is so much residential development going on at the moment, it's unreal. It's way beyond what a normal market would be expected to absorb, even at normal prices, let alone hyper-inflated ones. This isn't a normal market though. People are afraid.

You couldn't make up a better HPCer's wet dream if you tried. I dare you :)

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Could this be the real reason -

DT: FTSE 100 rebounds and pound steadies as financial markets price in 78% chance of rate cut next week

Link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/07/pound-languishes-below-130-amid-warnings-it-could-hit-parity-wit/

It's insane to think the bankerts will get away with thios again/

No one is going to stand up to the,

May is a remainian

Loathsome is an ex banker

The BrExit vote is going to see the whole country collapse now

Gold it is then

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FTSE companies have a lot of revenues and assets in dollars, so their bounce-back is to be expected in sterling terms. As regards to the property market, make no mistake, the FEAR phase has definitely kicked off in London. Brexit ticks all the boxes for a needle to ***** the bubble.

  • Expectation of rental income is down
  • Expectation of population growth is down
  • Expectation of income growth is down
  • Expectation of flood of foreign buyers is gone
  • Foreigners feeling unwelcome
  • General uncertainty and job insecurity

All of this is on top of the stamp duty and mortgage interest tax changes for BTL, which were going to crash the market even without Brexit.

Finally, there is so much residential development going on at the moment, it's unreal. It's way beyond what a normal market would be expected to absorb, even at normal prices, let alone hyper-inflated ones. This isn't a normal market though. People are afraid.

You couldn't make up a better HPCer's wet dream if you tried. I dare you :)

And now Leadsom's down to the final two in the Tory contest, added Brexit fear, which outweighs the issue of her being pro-BTL

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FTSE companies have a lot of revenues and assets in dollars, so their bounce-back is to be expected in sterling terms. As regards to the property market, make no mistake, the FEAR phase has definitely kicked off in London. Brexit ticks all the boxes for a needle to ***** the bubble.

  • Expectation of rental income is down
  • Expectation of population growth is down
  • Expectation of income growth is down
  • Expectation of flood of foreign buyers is gone
  • Foreigners feeling unwelcome
  • General uncertainty and job insecurity

All of this is on top of the stamp duty and mortgage interest tax changes for BTL, which were going to crash the market even without Brexit.

Finally, there is so much residential development going on at the moment, it's unreal. It's way beyond what a normal market would be expected to absorb, even at normal prices, let alone hyper-inflated ones. This isn't a normal market though. People are afraid.

You couldn't make up a better HPCer's wet dream if you tried. I dare you :)

Amen to that

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Ah Lana. I'm used to it now. The foreverHPI = Good. And not from her but from plenty of others, HPC = going medieval / the pain / the suffering.

Anyway good times roll.

Lana Clements ‏
Am i the only person who thinks Help To Buy is a good idea? Writing about it later today.

Timebandit ‏
@LanaC Yes,policy will only help developers share prices. High house prices=high labour, prod & living costs= uncompetitive in a global econ

Lower house prices anyone....? Or bit of HPC..?

Lana Clements
@pricedoutuk @robbieds no one will do that = equal political suicide

May 31, 2013 http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/190801-critics-have-slammed-help2buy-this-is-why-theyre-wrong/

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FTSE companies have a lot of revenues and assets in dollars, so their bounce-back is to be expected in sterling terms. As regards to the property market, make no mistake, the FEAR phase has definitely kicked off in London. Brexit ticks all the boxes for a needle to ***** the bubble.

  • Expectation of rental income is down
  • Expectation of population growth is down
  • Expectation of income growth is down
  • Expectation of flood of foreign buyers is gone
  • Foreigners feeling unwelcome
  • General uncertainty and job insecurity

All of this is on top of the stamp duty and mortgage interest tax changes for BTL, which were going to crash the market even without Brexit.

Finally, there is so much residential development going on at the moment, it's unreal. It's way beyond what a normal market would be expected to absorb, even at normal prices, let alone hyper-inflated ones. This isn't a normal market though. People are afraid.

You couldn't make up a better HPCer's wet dream if you tried. I dare you :)

Not sure about this. Taking Canada as an example, households extremely in debt, high house prices, after the oil shock, currency down 30%, rates cut from 100bps to 50bps, no HPC, people still borrowing heavily.

The UK could be different as the level of uncertainty is higher and sentiment can be affected more severely.

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There's just no appetite for affordable housing in the UK. The media don't want it. Young people don't want it (they're happy as they are). OOs don't want it. It's just us random nutjobs that want affordable housing.

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No mention of central banks pumping up the FTSE either?

Or that we are 2 weeks removed from the vote and the pound and the UK's economic uncertainty are at historic lows.

Or that our 8%/44% (UK exports/EU imports) reciprocal trade arrangements with the EU is nothing to be concerned about with potential tariffs and decades of re-negotiations.

Or a whole multitude of other niggling problems.

Imagine, a reputable rag like the Express not stating fact.

Lets seem Canada is negotiating with the EU...trade continues while the negotiations take place.

Stop it with the fearmongering.

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Lets seem Canada is negotiating with the EU...trade continues while the negotiations take place.

Stop it with the fearmongering.

Yes, your maple syrup requirements will be met!

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Ah Lana. I'm used to it now. The foreverHPI = Good. And not from her but from plenty of others, HPC = going medieval / the pain / the suffering.

Anyway good times roll.

Lower house prices anyone....? Or bit of HPC..?

May 31, 2013 http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/190801-critics-have-slammed-help2buy-this-is-why-theyre-wrong/

I've set that s*** **** straigh on HTB.

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Interesting chart (think it's yours Count) - but let's allow something for her tweet on HTB being 3 years ago. Maybe she thinks differently about HTB today? Or perhaps she like HTB even more if she thinks she's gained from HPI on owner side, as many owners do see HPI? And keep ourselves in calm.

She wasn't responsible for the scheme(s) themselves. Just a market participant (with media view), and we're all market participants. Outright owners, mortgaged owners, BTLers, renters. Some see Brexit aceness, others see reasons for concern. Market.

Cmx3pMxWYAA0XDS.jpg

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Yeah great chart.

We really need to inform those who think brexit caused the coming recession by informing them how imbalanced on so many levels the Uk economy has become over the past 35 years.

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Yeah great chart.

We really need to inform those who think brexit caused the coming recession by informing them how imbalanced on so many levels the Uk economy has become over the past 35 years.

Arguably the imbalanced UK economy caused Brexit.

The dominance of London-based financial services and the banks gives us the severe recession post-2008 and subsequent faux austerity putting pressure on public services. A determination to avoid confronting the actual insolvency of the lenders leads to monetary policies which keep house prices high and therefore keeps housing expensive. A lack of any kind of coordinated industrial policy means that already deprived communities continue to have decent jobs replaced with zero-hours contract service sector shite.

The end result is a large proportion of the electorate who are increasingly willing to try something else.

Apologies for saying it again, but I really enjoyed this book. (The review at the link is pretty critical, and perhaps overlooks the book's value to somebody outside the academic world who didn't already know everything in the book an was just looking for fresh analysis.)

Part of the argument in the book is that Thatcher could try monetarism in 1979 not because monetarism had such evident merits that trying anything else was crazy but because demand management policies (that were the end point of a glitter and crayons application of Keynes' analysis of the 1930s dumped on the 1970s) had evidently failed and thus the time was ripe to try something else, and monetarism was just 'something else'.

The transition to monetarism instigated by Thatcher was an elite-led response to non-elite discontent which was impossible to ignore.

The interesting thing about Brexit is that it is essentially a non-elite led response to discontents that the elites have made every effort to ignore.

In short, enough of the electorate are finding things so bad that when they are told that the best course of action is more of the same, they are willing to listen to and engage with anyone offering 'something else'; essentially the worse the beasting you get from the devil you know, the less you fear the devil you don't. This is reasonable.

In the 1990s, Blair drags the Labour party onto the mythical 'centre ground', Cameron does the same thing to the Tories in the late 2000s. The Lib Dems were already there.

Hence in England (but not the rest of the UK) it is LibLabCon or UKIP. UKIP were the only party offering 'something else'. Whether or not that 'something else' is a good idea or a bad idea is a bit irrelevant really. If you ignore and leave behind vast swathes of the electorate then someone offering 'something else' will eventually come along, and they'll get votes.

Disparaging Brexiters is fun, and I am not in a position to cast the first stone at people who have done so, but given its ultimate results you could mock monetarism with the same smug disdain. Few people do. One of the problems of elite-led discourse is that it doesn't begin with a calm and reasoned evaluation of facts, it begins with regurgitating what some elite actor has told you to think, and that is no way to run a railroad.

A couple of weeks past the shock phase and my greatest concern regarding Brexit is not its direct consequences but the extent to which it has forced us to look at the deep divisions and profound discontents in our country. My concern is that having voted for 'something else' what people will actually get from elites is 'more of the same'. That course of action would deepen the existing divisions and sharpen the teeth of the discontents.

We need to move on. We need to accept the Brexit vote and we need to look at the root causes of division and discontent. Then we need to look to alleviate those discontents and heal those divisions in light of the need to answer the Brexit vote by leaving the European Union. Are either Theresa May or Angela Leadsom up to that task?

As the ongoing street-fighting on the main Brexit thread ably demonstrates the task of healing the divisions that existed before the referendum is made even more difficult by a plebiscite which has created further division (within families even) and sowed dragon's teeth for new discontents.

Edited by Ghost Bird

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Arguably the imbalanced UK economy caused Brexit.

The dominance of London-based financial services and the banks gives us the severe recession post-2008 and subsequent faux austerity putting pressure on public services. A determination to avoid confronting the actual insolvency of the lenders leads to monetary policies which keep house prices high and therefore keeps housing expensive. A lack of any kind of coordinated industrial policy means that already deprived communities continue to have decent jobs replaced with zero-hours contract service sector shite.

The end result is a large proportion of the electorate who are increasingly willing to try something else.

Apologies for saying it again, but I really enjoyed this book. (The review at the link is pretty critical, and perhaps overlooks the book's value to somebody outside the academic world who didn't already know everything in the book an was just looking for fresh analysis.)

Part of the argument in the book is that Thatcher could try monetarism in 1979 not because monetarism had such evident merits that trying anything else was crazy but because demand management policies (that were the end point of a glitter and crayons application of Keynes' analysis of the 1930s dumped on the 1970s) had evidently failed and thus the time was ripe to try something else, and monetarism was just 'something else'.

The transition to monetarism instigated by Thatcher was an elite-led response to non-elite discontent which was impossible to ignore.

The interesting thing about Brexit is that it is essentially a non-elite led response to discontents that the elites have made every effort to ignore.

In short, enough of the electorate are finding things so bad that when they are told that the best course of action is more of the same, they are willing to listen to and engage with anyone offering 'something else'; essentially the worse the beasting you get from the devil you know, the less you fear the devil you don't. This is reasonable.

In the 1990s, Blair drags the Labour party onto the mythical 'centre ground', Cameron does the same thing to the Tories in the late 2000s. The Lib Dems were already there.

Hence in England (but not the rest of the UK) it is LibLabCon or UKIP. UKIP were the only party offering 'something else'. Whether or not that 'something else' is a good idea or a bad idea is a bit irrelevant really. If you ignore and leave behind vast swathes of the electorate then someone offering 'something else' will eventually come along, and they'll get votes.

Disparaging Brexiters is fun, and I am not in a position to cast the first stone at people who have done so, but given its ultimate results you could mock monetarism with the same smug disdain. Few people do. One of the problems of elite-led discourse is that it doesn't begin with a calm and reasoned evaluation of facts, it begins with regurgitating what some elite actor has told you to think, and that is no way to run a railroad.

A couple of weeks past the shock phase and my greatest concern regarding Brexit is not its direct consequences but the extent to which it has forced us to look at the deep divisions and profound discontents in our country. My concern is that having voted for 'something else' what people will actually get from elites is 'more of the same'. That course of action would deepen the existing divisions and sharpen the teeth of the discontents.

We need to move on. We need to accept the Brexit vote and we need to look at the root causes of division and discontent. Then we need to look to alleviate those discontents and heal those divisions in light of the need to answer the Brexit vote by leaving the European Union. Are either Theresa May or Angela Leadsome up to that task?

As the ongoing street-fighting on the main Brexit thread so ably demonstrates the task of healing the divisions that existed before the referendum is made even more difficult by a plebiscite which has created further division (within families even) and sowed dragon's teeth for new discontents.

Nail, head.

The BrExit has been caused by the greed of the london based establishment.

They will not give up their cushy number without a fight.

Look at the boEs immediate response...more support for the banks, stock market and housing bubble.

Crazy, but true

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'TheCountOfNowhere'

Nail, head.

The BrExit has been caused by the greed of the london based establishment.

They will not give up their cushy number without a fight.

Look at the boEs immediate response...more support for the banks, stock market and housing bubble.

Crazy, but true

YEAH ...it makes YOU want to vomit!

The whole thing is RIGGED by the crooks in suits.

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Also in complete agreement with Ghost Bird's thesis. Hopefully our moderate politicians are realising that if they'd addressed the problems they might have got a Remain vote. Too late to go back now, but now they know they need to fix those problems.

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Arguably the imbalanced UK economy caused Brexit.

The dominance of London-based financial services and the banks gives us the severe recession post-2008 and subsequent faux austerity putting pressure on public services. A determination to avoid confronting the actual insolvency of the lenders leads to monetary policies which keep house prices high and therefore keeps housing expensive. A lack of any kind of coordinated industrial policy means that already deprived communities continue to have decent jobs replaced with zero-hours contract service sector shite.

The end result is a large proportion of the electorate who are increasingly willing to try something else.

Apologies for saying it again, but I really enjoyed this book. (The review at the link is pretty critical, and perhaps overlooks the book's value to somebody outside the academic world who didn't already know everything in the book an was just looking for fresh analysis.)

Part of the argument in the book is that Thatcher could try monetarism in 1979 not because monetarism had such evident merits that trying anything else was crazy but because demand management policies (that were the end point of a glitter and crayons application of Keynes' analysis of the 1930s dumped on the 1970s) had evidently failed and thus the time was ripe to try something else, and monetarism was just 'something else'.

The transition to monetarism instigated by Thatcher was an elite-led response to non-elite discontent which was impossible to ignore.

The interesting thing about Brexit is that it is essentially a non-elite led response to discontents that the elites have made every effort to ignore.

In short, enough of the electorate are finding things so bad that when they are told that the best course of action is more of the same, they are willing to listen to and engage with anyone offering 'something else'; essentially the worse the beasting you get from the devil you know, the less you fear the devil you don't. This is reasonable.

In the 1990s, Blair drags the Labour party onto the mythical 'centre ground', Cameron does the same thing to the Tories in the late 2000s. The Lib Dems were already there.

Hence in England (but not the rest of the UK) it is LibLabCon or UKIP. UKIP were the only party offering 'something else'. Whether or not that 'something else' is a good idea or a bad idea is a bit irrelevant really. If you ignore and leave behind vast swathes of the electorate then someone offering 'something else' will eventually come along, and they'll get votes.

Disparaging Brexiters is fun, and I am not in a position to cast the first stone at people who have done so, but given its ultimate results you could mock monetarism with the same smug disdain. Few people do. One of the problems of elite-led discourse is that it doesn't begin with a calm and reasoned evaluation of facts, it begins with regurgitating what some elite actor has told you to think, and that is no way to run a railroad.

A couple of weeks past the shock phase and my greatest concern regarding Brexit is not its direct consequences but the extent to which it has forced us to look at the deep divisions and profound discontents in our country. My concern is that having voted for 'something else' what people will actually get from elites is 'more of the same'. That course of action would deepen the existing divisions and sharpen the teeth of the discontents.

We need to move on. We need to accept the Brexit vote and we need to look at the root causes of division and discontent. Then we need to look to alleviate those discontents and heal those divisions in light of the need to answer the Brexit vote by leaving the European Union. Are either Theresa May or Angela Leadsom up to that task?

This! Really good comment in my opinion - if Brexit is to be a long-term success, then this needs to happen.

For this to happen, we need engaged give-a-shit leaders who are interested in fixing the underlying problems that led to Brexit, and not business-as-usual merchants.

Thersea May - maybe, but seems more interested in the top job then a new Mayday view of Britain.

Angela Leadsom - no chance, hasn't a clue.

Corbyn - as a certain understanding that 'everything-is-wrong' but seems too busy reliving the 80s and protesting to put forward an alternative vision of 'what-could-be-right' - Labour needs to get someone else with a strong leadership bid to unite the country.

Boris - thank god there is no chance of that anymore! He did nothing for London.

Anyone else? Hopefully we will have a 'cometh the hour, cometh the man (or woman)' and see someone step up to the plate and bring something radical out of Brexit.

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One suspects that as always it's in large part to do with control.

In the 70s they were losing control to the unions so policies were introduced to put a stop to that.

More recently with the eu Britain has been increasingly losing control to the eu/Germany so the Brexit helps to put a stop to that.

It's by no means certain that the Brexit hasn't in fact been engineering by the British controllers albeit in a very roundabout and devious manner and with the result of the referendum having a sufficiently slim margin that for some time in the future almost any outcome seems ultimately possible depending on events over the next few years.


The end result is a large proportion of the electorate who are increasingly willing to try something else.

Indeed and from some of the events of the past few years one would almost think it has been engineered to be that way. I mean to say the people running the country couldn't be that bad at running it could they - on the other hand maybe they are.

Edited by billybong

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I recognise it is a visceral "someone stole my cheese" that led many to vote the way they did. However, it doesn't disguise all the reasons why I voted Leave: namely an answerable and corrupt democracy leveraging its central bank to bring democracies to heel. The lack of a functioning 'demos' at the European level - everyone in that 'government' is your enemy by definition. (you hope your own government even if misguided, still think they have the country's interests at heart - no such thing at European level).

Lastly, the die was cast when Blair/Brown vetoed joining the Euro and created the circumstances for being out voted by the Euro bloc to tap our pockets.

In fact, the die may even have been cast as far back as the original 'lie' to the British people...that we were joining a 'free trade area' not creating a European country which we signed up to on accession. People with long memories frankly feel lied to and have waited an awful long time to reverse their votes.

I understand that perspective. You make an important point; the leave vote wasn't a single block of people with identical views and circumstances.

You've touched on another failure of the process, over decades; politicians needed to engage with communicating the trade-offs involved in being a member a large free market and attendant concessions on autonomy (for example on the environmental standards that all manufacturers of a given product in the free trade area would need to abide by so that none enjoyed an advantage by, for example, dumping industrial waste chock full of heavy metals straight into the sewer). The mainstream media also f**ked us all over in that regard by reducing complicated questions about when and how to compromise in order to enjoy the fruits of free trade into a bunch of jingoist bulls!it about bananas.

However, I think the two (sovereignty and inequality) are linked. People are going to be more willing to compromise on issues of sovereignty and self-determination in order to secure the fruits of free trade if they actually get to eat some of the f**king fruit. The wonderful Mark Blyth sums up parts the argument of his book on austerity with the phrase, "democracy is asset insurance for the rich, don't skimp on the payments". There are London bankers who have skimped on the payments and may now have to become Frankfurt bankers, regardless of their wishes to the contrary.

As a follow up, the conduct of the ECB in bringing Greece to heel in order to protect creditors has been and continues to be horrific and I can understand why it made people deeply sceptical about the merits of staying in the club. As Marx* didn't say, "I would never remain in a club that would do that to its existing members".

* Groucho, obvs

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However, I think the two (sovereignty and inequality) are linked. People are going to be more willing to compromise on issues of sovereignty and self-determination in order to secure the fruits of free trade if they actually get to eat some of the f**king fruit.

Or even if it's being given up to someone who at least appears to have the wider interest at heart, rather than regarding the members as existing merely to further its own goals, and they'd damned well better stay in line and do as they're told. Perhaps that's the same as getting some of the fruit. It all comes back around to both causing and ignoring the building resentment that that inevitably causes. When that happens trouble sooner or later is inevitable.

Anyway good posts, both that one and the one further up the thread.

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  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   100 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


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