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porca misèria

Who's The Victim?

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Just heard an anecdote on the BBC.

Two gruesome family murders. That is to say, family member murders other family members.

In one case, police and prosecutors act quickly. Arrest the villain, put him on trial, lock him up. In the other case, police are slow to act, and the prosecution seems to have stalled.

One family is white, the other black. But which is which?

[edit to add] The point of the story was to illustrate that there is still no equality.

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I cannot give an opinion when I do not know the story! What happened?

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I cannot give an opinion when I do not know the story! What happened?

What happened is that the BBC told a story to illustrate that there is still discrimination, and I kind-of expected the opposite answer until the end when he revealed which family was which.

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What happened is that the BBC told a story to illustrate that there is still discrimination, and I kind-of expected the opposite answer until the end when he revealed which family was which.

I don't know this story!

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Don't understand the Qs and haven't read the story.

The only conclusion I can draw is that the police are slow and useless and that pressure groups will make hay whenever the sun shines.

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I have no idea what this thread is about, but it all sounds far beyond my intelligence level.

I don't think I see that on HPC OT. :wacko:

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I have no idea what this thread is about, but it all sounds far beyond my intelligence level.

The story illustrates that there is discrimination. Black-on-black vs white-on-white murders treated differently.

But which of the poll answers describes that discrimination?

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The story illustrates that there is discrimination. Black-on-black vs white-on-white murders treated differently.

But which of the poll answers describes that discrimination?

It may do, but equally there may be any number of other factors that caused procedural differences in the two cases.

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Generally speaking, the justice system almost certainly devotes more attention to rich and white people, but how that ends up impacting on actual cases could vary. From a bbc-ish (or anyone's) perspective, you could obviously interpret either scenario as supporting your prejudice, so you need an "insufficient information" option.

edit: I didn't vote, but my instinct would be the black investigation was dragging.

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Generally speaking, the justice system almost certainly devotes more attention to rich and white people, but how that ends up impacting on actual cases could vary. From a bbc-ish (or anyone's) perspective, you could obviously interpret either scenario as supporting your prejudice, so you need an "insufficient information" option.

edit: I didn't vote, but my instinct would be the black investigation was dragging.

Yes, there is insufficient information. Yes, I'd expect individual cases to differ based on all sorts of things that have nothing to do with race. That's kind-of the point.

The BBC tell an anecdote to illustrate discrimination. As I saw it, they could have reversed the black and white families and it would still have illustrated discrimination. If the black investigation is dragging, then the point of the anecdote must be that black victims don't matter. If it's the other way round, it must be that the white villain gets the kid glove.

Dammit, my first post must've been far too obscure!

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Dammit, my first post must've been far too obscure!

It wasn't too obscure, I understood the point you were making and agreed with you. I tried to imagine how the bbc would have presented it, and expressed my opinion. What more would you like?

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It wasn't too obscure, I understood the point you were making and agreed with you. I tried to imagine how the bbc would have presented it, and expressed my opinion. What more would you like?

Sorry, that comment wasn't aimed at you. Rather, the number of people who seem to be baffled by the question.

I'll come back with the reveal this evening, if noone tells it all first.

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I don't agree with either answer.

The police forces in this country are mostly politically correct so would prioritise a black victim but would drag their heels on prosecuting a black suspect so the two cancel out and there is no difference.

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I don't agree with either answer.

The police forces in this country are mostly politically correct so would prioritise a black victim but would drag their heels on prosecuting a black suspect so the two cancel out and there is no difference.

I totally agree with you Frank

I sometimes think there's a prosecution bias in the CPS (I know the OP is about police investigation but it's all part of the criminal justice system and police go for the low hanging fruit 'cos we want a result') almost as if they need a quota of white people in prison so the game doesn't look so rigged agains black and ethnic minorities which make up a disproportionate (compared to their size in the general population) chunk of the prison population

Anecdotal I know, but a friend's wife was found guilty of some white collar crime with no violence and with no previous convictions (not as much as a speeding ticket). Without wanting to explain the case on here, it was a genuine mistake/bad judgement on her part and just sheer bad, bad luck (which no one could have forseen), but she was found guilty and given the maximum sentence by the court; six months custodial!

She was of previous good character and the only reason I can think of that she was given such a sentence was that it's always nice to bang up some nice middle-class, middle-aged white well-spoken lady with a home counties accent in an attempt to even up the numbers in prison

I'll add that she was very badly served by her solicitor, but that's another story - the sentence is down to the court

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To be honest it could go either way, although the problem with crime is they are almost never the same. I think a big element with regard to, for want of a better term, "black crime" is that the black community are far less trusting of the police, that makes them very reluctant to talk to them and give information especially small minor seemingly insignificant stuff which could well swing the balance. That means those crimes have a lack of evidence meaning police can't deal with them as effectively as they would do "white crime".

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I totally agree with you Frank

I sometimes think there's a prosecution bias in the CPS (I know the OP is about police investigation but it's all part of the criminal justice system and police go for the low hanging fruit 'cos we want a result') almost as if they need a quota of white people in prison so the game doesn't look so rigged agains black and ethnic minorities which make up a disproportionate (compared to their size in the general population) chunk of the prison population

Anecdotal I know, but a friend's wife was found guilty of some white collar crime with no violence and with no previous convictions (not as much as a speeding ticket). Without wanting to explain the case on here, it was a genuine mistake/bad judgement on her part and just sheer bad, bad luck (which no one could have forseen), but she was found guilty and given the maximum sentence by the court; six months custodial!

She was of previous good character and the only reason I can think of that she was given such a sentence was that it's always nice to bang up some nice middle-class, middle-aged white well-spoken lady with a home counties accent in an attempt to even up the numbers in prison

I'll add that she was very badly served by her solicitor, but that's another story - the sentence is down to the court

6 months! Really? Jesus.

There are some bad barristers about.

A family member did something stupid - non violent or physical.

Pulled the short straw f getting a barrister who normally does commercial property disputes.

On current sentencing guidelines, no previous offecenes,s this + that, everyone was epxecting non-custodial.

Enter super-Barrister - 4 years!

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6 months! Really? Jesus.

There are some bad barristers about.

A family member did something stupid - non violent or physical.

Pulled the short straw f getting a barrister who normally does commercial property disputes.

On current sentencing guidelines, no previous offecenes,s this + that, everyone was epxecting non-custodial.

Enter super-Barrister - 4 years!

Feck!

Was he white and middle class (does my theory hold)

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OK, glad to see votes on both sides. Helps confirm my view of the story.

I heard most of it, but not the beginning, so I lacked context - except that the point of it was that white privilege still hasn't gone away. I thought the story was going to be that the police had little inclination to pursue the black case: the "black victims don't much matter" argument. I was wrong: it was the privileged white villain.

Turned out it was from South Africa, and motivated by the Oscar Pistorius story: he seems to have been treated leniently. I presume he must be white, as well as a Celebrity.

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Well my only experience of the Criminal Justice System is the odd Behaviour Likely To Cause A Breach Of The Peace, some minor motoring offences, and a couple of Drunk And Disorderlies.

I am white - but of the very, very trashy variety...!

From that perspective, I think I was treated pretty fairly.

To be honest - with a 6-month bind-over, or a maximum 20-30 quid fine in all cases - every night I spent in the cells was a fair bit cheaper than the local Premier Inn..!

;)

XYY

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Well my only experience of the Criminal Justice System is the odd Behaviour Likely To Cause A Breach Of The Peace, some minor motoring offences, and a couple of Drunk And Disorderlies.

I am white - but of the very, very trashy variety...!

From that perspective, I think I was treated pretty fairly.

To be honest - with a 6-month bind-over, or a maximum 20-30 quid fine in all cases - every night I spent in the cells was a fair bit cheaper than the local Premier Inn..!

;)

XYY

You are now home secretary now in my new Government which nobody has elected! I say as PM "treat wogs fairly"! And also honkies!! Now I can't be fairer than that! :blink: Your not so impressive prison record, might make you Minister of Justice.

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To be honest - with a 6-month bind-over, or a maximum 20-30 quid fine in all cases - every night I spent in the cells was a fair bit cheaper than the local Premier Inn..!

;)

XYY

What a fine way to look at it.

You, sirrah, are the finest monkey hanger that I have encountered.

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