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iamnumerate

If Hpi Had Never Happened Would We Have Voted Remain Or Maybe Not Had A Referendum

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If houses prices had not gone crazy would we still be in the EU? What do people think? I think yes, what changed my attitude to the EU was seeing EU migrants being given homes than I could not afford and then being given free English classes etc.

I don't mind people coming here but I do mind paying for it.

Edited by iamnumerate

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You title says

If Hpi Had Never Happened

Your poll says

If HpC Had Never Happened

I voted based on thread title.

I think you need to start again.

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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Hmm hard to tell, without hpi my life would have been a lot more straight forward, so I would have had a none challenging middle class life in Brum. With hpi, my life has been a lot harder, however I now see life a lot more clearly than I other wise would have done. (for example some of the financial stuff my Bremain Facebook chums are posting now, thinking they are f-ing Robert Peston, I was thinking about in 2009)

I would like to say I would still vote out. But without hpi, I would have been a lot more content, and not really keen to challenge things, hence I may have very well voted how I was told to by the politicians.

Edited by reddog

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Think a lot of our political views will be shaped by house prices.

For instance, I used to be a staunch defender of the welfare state, falsely believing it was there for me too if I needed it. Changed now. Case in point - I watched "life on the dole" last night - a young lady (chav) with an autistic child who was on £20k benefits per year (worked out at £1500/month income), she believed she was "doing something with her life" by blowing it on burlesque dancing props, manicures, photo shoots etc. She was literally about 20 stone as well. I remember when I used to take home £1800 a month in a £30,000 job (student loan/tax etc.) living in a damp 1 bed flat working 50 hours a week (I was probably spending the £300 in petrol/work costs)..how can it not make you angry?

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Think a lot of our political views will be shaped by house prices.

For instance, I used to be a staunch defender of the welfare state, falsely believing it was there for me too if I needed it. Changed now. Case in point - I watched "life on the dole" last night - a young lady (chav) with an autistic child who was on £20k benefits per year (worked out at £1500/month income), she believed she was "doing something with her life" by blowing it on burlesque dancing props, manicures, photo shoots etc. She was literally about 20 stone as well. I remember when I used to take home £1800 a month in a £30,000 job (student loan/tax etc.) living in a damp 1 bed flat working 50 hours a week (I was probably spending the £300 in petrol/work costs)..how can it not make you angry?

My personal view is that in 100 years time British historians will see this period as a total anomaly, it is pretty obvious in the long term you cant give people more than the average wage to do nothing (even if they have got an autistic kid). I am hoping that we will soon be snapping back into reality (though in a way, these people were just responding to perverse incentives, I think they will be getting a very rude awakening)

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For me HPI was/is one of several factors I disliked about the status quo. It had become clear that voting for any party in a general election wasn't going to change anything. This referendum seemed a good way to effect some sort of disruption via a leave result that could not be ignored. Well, not entirely ignored. Maybe mostly ignored...

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You title says

If Hpi Had Never Happened

Your poll says

If HpC Had Never Happened

I voted based on thread title.

I think you need to start again.

Apologies - it should both have said if HPI had never happened.

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Hpi has made me a republican. Monarchy is symbol of feudalism, the uk is a near feudal society and hpi and property wealth distribution is a great part of that.

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Hpi has made me a republican. Monarchy is symbol of feudalism, the uk is a near feudal society and hpi and property wealth distribution is a great part of that.

Yes, the UK system is in need of a total over haul.

The only problem being the 1%ers wont change willingly. This is not 100% clear since BrExit

My conclusion...there is much trouble to come.

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I voted leave because I can see what's happening:-

  • 38 months in a row of food/non-food groceries official deflation + rise of discounter / pound shops tells you ALL you need to know about the REAL economy - it's flat because wages are flat with rents/house prices + utility costs rising.
  • mass immigration is a big contributor to wage stagnation
  • HPI has massively outpaced wage inflation
  • now we're in the middle of nowhere - millions of cheap labourers have come to the UK, and leveraging their cost of living differential (don't blame them). We will NEVER EVER see prosperity again without a massive reset of one sort or another - including a massive overhaul of the benefits system
  • voting Leave is one step closer to a chance at true prosperity (after a recession/depression, government can rebuild a new economy that doesn't offer a ridiculously generous benefits system to one and all).
Edited by canbuywontbuy

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Yes, the UK system is in need of a total over haul.

The only problem being the 1%ers wont change willingly. This is not 100% clear since BrExit

My conclusion...there is much trouble to come.

I would say the other problem is that the people who are affected don't agree on the solution.

For me it is changing benefits, not paying people to come here and building more homes but others disagree.

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If houses prices had not gone crazy would we still be in the EU? What do people think? I think yes, what changed my attitude to the EU was seeing EU migrants being given homes than I could not afford and then being given free English classes etc.

I don't mind people coming here but I do mind paying for it.

I think you would still have voted Leave. Even with no housing problems, the truth is you (as a nation) are simply unable to grasp the benefits of being in the EU. Some of you do/did, of course (like all the Brits that moved to Spain/Portugal/Italy etc), but most of you didn't and still don't.

While the result of the referendum is pretty much meaningless to me, it made one thing clear: as a culture, you're very...shall we say, adverse to risk, avoid adventure and would rather have the certainty of slavery than all the risks and effort that come with freedom (as I'm sure you know, freedom isn't free). It's a very different picture from what I had read about Brits (mostly stories that predated Queen Victoria).

Just to be clear, one example. One can buy a small farm (say, 20,000 sqm) in Bulgaria for roughly 15k (euros; cba to check the exchange rate now). That's peanuts for people that have workes in the UK and have saved some money. In theory, it's a no-brainer: you go and get it. But in reality, average Brits prefer to stay home, even if that means living with parents or sharing a room. If they have savings, they rush to nuke them on a deposit on a 50 sqm shithole. Suggest moving to them and they'll start listing the problems and not consider the benefits. Oh, the language. Oh, the location. Oh, family. Oh, this and that. And while those are valid concerns, it seems to me that it's stupid to stay in the UK and slave away for decades to own 50 sqm when you could be debt free and own 400 times the surface. You can learn a language, after all (if you even need it; most Europeans probably speak English anyway)

Of course, I'm referring to those with average earnings (40k or something). I wouldn't expect a banker in the city to consider that.

That's why I think you would still have voted Leave. When you simply refuse the benefits of being in the EU, why would you stay? At the end of the day, a typical Brit will not even consider taking advantage of the benefits. They'd be much more likely to complain about the negative side. Like that Polish couple that comes to the pub every now and then and keep speaking that annoying Polish.

(Not Bulgarian myself, just a random example; could be any other EU country there, but the price would be different)

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Just to be clear, one example. One can buy a small farm (say, 20,000 sqm) in Bulgaria for roughly 15k (euros; cba to check the exchange rate now). That's peanuts for people that have workes in the UK and have saved some money. In theory, it's a no-brainer: you go and get it. But in reality, average Brits prefer to stay home, even if that means living with parents or sharing a room. If they have savings, they rush to nuke them on a deposit on a 50 sqm shithole. Suggest moving to them and they'll start listing the problems and not consider the benefits. Oh, the language. Oh, the location. Oh, family. Oh, this and that. And while those are valid concerns, it seems to me that it's stupid to stay in the UK and slave away for decades to own 50 sqm when you could be debt free and own 400 times the surface. You can learn a language, after all (if you even need it; most Europeans probably speak English anyway)

Of course, I'm referring to those with average earnings (40k or something). I wouldn't expect a banker in the city to consider that.

That's why I think you would still have voted Leave. When you simply refuse the benefits of being in the EU, why would you stay? At the end of the day, a typical Brit will not even consider taking advantage of the benefits. They'd be much more likely to complain about the negative side. Like that Polish couple that comes to the pub every now and then and keep speaking that annoying Polish.

(Not Bulgarian myself, just a random example; could be any other EU country there, but the price would be different)

As I don't speak Bulgarian, am not a farmer, don't have independent means and cannot work remotely, why would going to Bulgaria be a good idea? True for some people that would be a great idea but for most it wouldn't.

If the benefits/costs of the EU had been different then the result would have be different.

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As I don't speak Bulgarian, am not a farmer, don't have independent means and cannot work remotely, why would going to Bulgaria be a good idea? True for some people that would be a great idea but for most it wouldn't.

If the benefits/costs of the EU had been different then the result would have be different.

You don't have to be a farmer, that was supposed to be a very simple example - people could also open a business for a fraction of the costs. Walk around Malta, Spain, Italy, Portugal - you've got the odd British business everywhere.

But yeah, that's pretty much what I'm talking about. Since you're not going to go for the benefits of being in the EU, why would you stay?

It's probably for the best that you left. No point in staying if it only makes you feel miserable.

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