University Bubble Making Hissing Sounds

[anonguest]

4 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Not go under, mergers and redundancies is what will happen, our uni has hugh deficit, talking of merger with ex-poly. However:-

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/feb/07/record-numbers-china-hong-kong-applying-study-uk-universities

if Brexit happens, the gov will be more or less forced to open the flood gates on chinese students to get their hands on hard currency

expect engineering schools to bear the brunt

I thought this had already happened to a large extent.  I went to visit an STEM field friend of mine, at a Russell Group university, for lunch not so long ago.  Walking through the departmental corridor I saw the photoboard of staff and graduate students.  Almost all the grad students were asian.  It stuck me as a huge contrast from the prior such visit more than 15 years ago.

 

As for Engineering to take the brunt?  You mean they will need to increase the foreign students the most?  I would have thought it would be the wishy washy humanities subjects that will suffer the most? 

[debtlessmanc]

10 minutes ago, anonguest said:

I thought this had already happened to a large extent.  I went to visit an STEM field friend of mine, at a Russell Group university, for lunch not so long ago.  Walking through the departmental corridor I saw the photoboard of staff and graduate students.  Almost all the grad students were asian.  It stuck me as a huge contrast from the prior such visit more than 15 years ago.

 

As for Engineering to take the brunt?  You mean they will need to increase the foreign students the most?  I would have thought it would be the wishy washy humanities subjects that will suffer the most? 

Engineering schools are huge cash cows for big universites, russell group schools take huge numbers of overseas students. yes the arts to some extent as they are cheap to teach, but the govt is threatening to cap their fees more than other faculties.

 

i have recently been contacted about a move to a smaller non-russel group uni, pay rise but i am too worried about these places to take it seriously. any university without a significant number of overseas students is very vulnerable due to the Augar review.

[Will!]

2 hours ago, highcontrast said:

"...over-optimistic forecasts of student numbers". This is key, and this is whats going to bite them on the backside. Even as recently as three years ago it was all about growth, growth growth...don't think for one second they thought it could go the other way (a bit like the sheeple thinking HPI to inifiti and beyond).

And similarily, because they thought there would "always" be increasing numbers of students,  I think lots of universities (not just Reading)  have heavily expended into building their own student residential accomodation...after all, it's a never ending money spinner...innit!

It's all going end very badly.  But would the government let a big university go under?

In fairness to Reading, its primary function was agricultural studies for many years and it's no secret that British agriculture has been in decline for a long time.  International students could have been the short-term 'cash cow' to allow Reading to diversify into other areas of academia which would be sustainable without ever-increasing student numbers.  Too bad it looks like they didn't take the long-term view.

1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said:

Not go under, mergers and redundancies is what will happen, our uni has hugh deficit, talking of merger with ex-poly. However:-

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/feb/07/record-numbers-china-hong-kong-applying-study-uk-universities

if Brexit happens, the gov will be more or less forced to open the flood gates on chinese students to get their hands on hard currency

expect engineering schools to bear the brunt

Interesting.  An ex-poly with better finances than a redbrick?

 

[bearishonhouses]

12 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

 

UK tuition fees are the highest in the world, but would anyone claim we produce the best graduates?

I am not sure this statement is true - though it is hard to get much data. In the USA, tuition at  public universities for in-state students varies from bargain rates of $7k  in Florida to $20k in Pennsylvania. (More extreme examples at top and bottom end are very small states). However, many public universities charge extra for popular subjects when they believe market demand justifies it (e.g. Business, Engineering, Computer Science.)   Tuition for out of state students (including international) is much higher - typically $20k to $40k. 

Private university sticker price of tuition is very much higher ($50k is not unusual) but they typically offer offer needs-based scholarships. However, if your household income is more than $100k, you are not getting a penny of needs-based financial aid.     

see: https://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/2018-19-state-tuition-and-fees-public-four-year-institutions-state-and-five-year-percentage

  

[debtlessmanc]

13 hours ago, Will! said:

In fairness to Reading, its primary function was agricultural studies for many years and it's no secret that British agriculture has been in decline for a long time.  International students could have been the short-term 'cash cow' to allow Reading to diversify into other areas of academia which would be sustainable without ever-increasing student numbers.  Too bad it looks like they didn't take the long-term view.

Interesting.  An ex-poly with better finances than a redbrick?

 

The finances aren’t better, just that a merger releases property to sell

[spyguy]

6 hours ago, bearishonhouses said:

I am not sure this statement is true - though it is hard to get much data. In the USA, tuition at  public universities for in-state students varies from bargain rates of $7k  in Florida to $20k in Pennsylvania. (More extreme examples at top and bottom end are very small states). However, many public universities charge extra for popular subjects when they believe market demand justifies it (e.g. Business, Engineering, Computer Science.)   Tuition for out of state students (including international) is much higher - typically $20k to $40k. 

Private university sticker price of tuition is very much higher ($50k is not unusual) but they typically offer offer needs-based scholarships. However, if your household income is more than $100k, you are not getting a penny of needs-based financial aid.     

see: https://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/2018-19-state-tuition-and-fees-public-four-year-institutions-state-and-five-year-percentage

  

US is more complex.

If you are an instate student then studying is a lot cheaper.

And there are large number of bursaries and whatnot available.

I used to chat to US co-workers and think their education was expensive.

Now I chat to UK students and think theirs is a lot more.

US Unis, on average, also have a lot cheaper accommodation costs.

 

 

 

[anonguest]

2 hours ago, spyguy said:

US is more complex.

If you are an instate student then studying is a lot cheaper.

And there are large number of bursaries and whatnot available.

I used to chat to US co-workers and think their education was expensive.

Now I chat to UK students and think theirs is a lot more.

US Unis, on average, also have a lot cheaper accommodation costs.

 

 

 

and better quality/value for money too, on average, I would presume?

Edited Monday at 12:23 by anonguest

[PeanutButter]

 

[iamnumerate]

44 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

 

Can a Brit study medicine in Iceland and then come back and work here? It looks like it would be worth it (if you can study in English).

[PeanutButter]

59 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Can a Brit study medicine in Iceland and then come back and work here? It looks like it would be worth it (if you can study in English).

I heard about people who sent their son to study in Netherlands because even with travel costs and accommodation it came to so much less. But brexit may change that.

Then again you can't just go to Scotland to study for free there. 

Edited Monday at 14:21 by PeanutButter

[MarkG]

11 hours ago, bearishonhouses said:

In the USA, tuition at  public universities for in-state students varies from bargain rates of $7k  in Florida to $20k in Pennsylvania.

US universities used to be much cheaper before they got government-backed student loans that cannot be discharged through bankruptcy. Before that, no-one would lend a teenage girl $250k for a 'gender studies' degree.

It's just something else governments have horribly screwed up.

[Will!]

2 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

 

I think that’s domestic rather than international student fees.

[PeanutButter]

Just now, Will! said:

I think that’s domestic rather than international student fees.

True,  just googled and it would appear as if Iceland only classifies students as ‘EU', or ‘Non EU / EEA' for fees. It is a rather expensive place to live though!

[highcontrast]

Are things unraveling?

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/investigation-launched-after-de-montfort-2530847

"Universities watchdog The Office for Students says it is investigating 'regulatory matters at De Montfort University'.

The Government body confirmed its investigation to Leicestershire Live today. The statement was released minutes after De Montfort University confirmed its vice-chancellor Dominic Shellard had quit his £350,000 a year post.

In a statement, an Office for Students spokesman, said: "We are looking into a number of regulatory matters relating to De Montfort University, following the university reporting an issue to us in the autumn

While this work is continuing there is no presumption of wrongdoing by the university and it would be inappropriate to comment further.”

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/de-montfort-university-vice-chancellor-2530715

"He has overseen the £136 million transformation of the Mill Lane campus, part of which is being paid for using a £90 million public bond, financed by four major lenders - and borrowed against income from student tuition fees."

 

Now what happens when tuition fees start to fall due to reducing numbers?

P.s. Lolz @ £350k salary

 

[spyguy]

12 minutes ago, highcontrast said:

Are things unraveling?

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/investigation-launched-after-de-montfort-2530847

"Universities watchdog The Office for Students says it is investigating 'regulatory matters at De Montfort University'.

The Government body confirmed its investigation to Leicestershire Live today. The statement was released minutes after De Montfort University confirmed its vice-chancellor Dominic Shellard had quit his £350,000 a year post.

In a statement, an Office for Students spokesman, said: "We are looking into a number of regulatory matters relating to De Montfort University, following the university reporting an issue to us in the autumn

While this work is continuing there is no presumption of wrongdoing by the university and it would be inappropriate to comment further.”

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/de-montfort-university-vice-chancellor-2530715

"He has overseen the £136 million transformation of the Mill Lane campus, part of which is being paid for using a £90 million public bond, financed by four major lenders - and borrowed against income from student tuition fees."

 

Now what happens when tuition fees start to fall due to reducing numbers?

P.s. Lolz @ £350k salary

 

Wierdly, DeMont is one I see advertised when I channel flick.

And even wiered, Ive seen it advertised at unusual times of the year.

 

[highcontrast]

8 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Wierdly, DeMont is one I see advertised when I channel flick.

And even wiered, Ive seen it advertised at unusual times of the year.

 

Well, with all that money in the coffers why wouldn't you blitz on an on advertising campaign

But it does seem like the De Montfort (and Reading Uni) story is symptomatic of whats going with funding within these Universities? (especially the ex polys). I wonder how many more stories we will here like this soon?

[spyguy]

8 minutes ago, highcontrast said:

Well, with all that money in the coffers why wouldn't you blitz on an on advertising campaign

But it does seem like the De Montfort (and Reading Uni) story is symptomatic of whats going with funding within these Universities? (especially the ex polys). I wonder how many more stories we will here like this soon?

Im not suer its limited to the ex Polys.

All HE places seem to to be going totally insane.

You cant do t any town/city which once had a HE place (or didnt) and not trip over the University of XXXX new student building.

 

 

[spyguy]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/de-montfort-university-vice-chancellor-2530715

VCs off .. . to spend more time with his pension.

Again, I bet we'll be proved wrong again. That VCs *do* need to paid a lot, so they can compete with the  private sector.

I guess the VC will go off and run Microsoft or Goldman Sachs. Leicester loss ...

 

[spyguy]

WTF???

Earlier this year Leicestershire Live revealed the 52-year-old former Labour councillor had become the highest paid university vice-chancellor in the East Midlands after getting a £64,000 pay rise in 2017/18. That took his salary up to £350,000 a year.

He lives in a rent-free flat on the university campus.

[spyguy]

Dominic Shellard was born in Orpington, Kent.[2] He read English and German at St Peter's College, Oxford. He obtained a DPhil in English Literature on the theatre criticism of Harold Hobson.[2]

He is a former councillor for Boston Ward on Rotherham Council.

....

Shellard is an expert in post-war British theatre and an active Shakespeare scholar. 

Id love to know why the HE sector insist on putting types like this in charge of millions.

No administration or management experience.

 

 

[spyguy]

Overall, his remuneration package for the year totalled £358,000 which included £1,000 in health benefits and £7,000 in pension contributions.

DMU’s accounts also show Prof Shellard lives in rent-free accommodation – a flat on the university campus – and that the university paid nearly £2,700 towards the costs of his being a member of The Club at The Ivy in Covent Garden.

[Errol]

34 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Overall, his remuneration package for the year totalled £358,000 which included £1,000 in health benefits and £7,000 in pension contributions.

DMU’s accounts also show Prof Shellard lives in rent-free accommodation – a flat on the university campus – and that the university paid nearly £2,700 towards the costs of his being a member of The Club at The Ivy in Covent Garden.

Nice work, if you can get it!

[PeanutButter]

2 hours ago, spyguy said:

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/de-montfort-university-vice-chancellor-2530715

VCs off .. . to spend more time with his pension.

Again, I bet we'll be proved wrong again. That VCs *do* need to paid a lot, so they can compete with the  private sector.

I guess the VC will go off and run Microsoft or Goldman Sachs. Leicester loss ...

 

You know whose favourite argument this is?

Danny “The Dove” Blanchflower

[winkie]

I only got where I am today by not going to university.😉

[spyguy]

40 minutes ago, winkie said:

I only got where I am today by not going to university.😉

I was the first member of my family who didnt get a job at 16....