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University Bubble Making Hissing Sounds

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1 hour ago, Locke said:

What the EFF is someone who can't even achieve DDD doing applying to university in the first place?

It is obvious and disgusting that higher education is simply a debt mill to get more people into debt and having their pay garnished for the rest of their working lives.

Probably true - if wrong it should be possible for universities to disprove this.

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1 hour ago, Locke said:

Can someone explain to me how the benefits of propping up crappy universities outweigh the risks of doing so?

If a politician doesn't prop them up they could lose votes, stopping students from wasting their time studying at a 5th institution wins very few votes and although good for the long term, Teresa May etc will have retired by them.

In three words short term thinking, true for so many problems we have.

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I get stick on the othe site for my suggestion on improving HE - insisting all Uni entrants must pass Maths A level at C or higher.

That would be a great academic filter and would allow the state to support people who've shown a bit of dedication and ability for work and study, the thinqs you need for HE.

Then we could have some state support/funding  -does not  no have to be much. Make it parity to a single mum with 2 kids.

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2 hours ago, Locke said:

Can someone explain to me how the benefits of propping up crappy universities outweigh the risks of doing so?

According to the link:

“Generally a university is one of the biggest employers. It’s like closing a hospital – losing it would change the environment and make it a harder place to live in. These aren’t just businesses, they are public institutions that are subsidised by the state for good reason.”

Yes ....... 

Maybe he might want to suggest all those HE workers take out a workers loan which can be billed at 6.5% a yer til they pay it back over 30 years time?

They can all sell up their house and go and live in shared house together - not need to pay them that much then.

 

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13 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

A depressing article, academics rather than using anecdotal examples to explain why this is a bad idea, should use student loan repayment figures to show that it is a bad idea.  They should know that this as academics

If people with 3 DDDs pay off their loans as quickly as people with AAA* then this is a bad thing.  If they don't then maybe it is justified.

 

Of course it is possible that the data shows this is a great idea and they are trying to hoodwink gullible Guardian readers.

 

11 hours ago, Locke said:

What the EFF is someone who can't even achieve DDD doing applying to university in the first place?

It is obvious and disgusting that higher education is simply a debt mill to get more people into debt and having their pay garnished for the rest of their working lives.

related from a week ago

University chiefs angry over ‘elitist’ student loan plans https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/jan/08/university-chiefs-angry-elitish-student-loan-plans 

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10 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

 

related from a week ago

University chiefs angry over ‘elitist’ student loan plans https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/jan/08/university-chiefs-angry-elitish-student-loan-plans 

They have half a point - kids from poorer backgrounds may have caring responsibilities, part time jobs, tough families etc which mean they perform less will than their abilities suggest at school.

But the easy way around this is surely to means test student loans qualification for people with less than 3 C's, just to stop the Tim nice but dims getting a free ride at university instead.

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Clampdown on luring students with unconditional offers

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46919855

 

Quote

'Conditional unconditional'

OfS researchers looked at the two different kinds of unconditional offer, those that: guarantee a place, with no conditions are unconditional only if an applicant makes the university their first choice

Overall, the number of unconditional offers to 18-year-olds rose from 3,000 in 2013 to 117,000 in 2018,

while "conditional unconditional" offers rose from zero in 2013 to 66,000 by 2018.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

Clampdown on luring students with unconditional offers

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46919855

 

It yet again confirms that the whole system is purely about numbers/bums on seats i.e. money!

From last year - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46374281

"Unconditional offers used to 'get people through door"

The university bubble is certainly bursting...and lots of negative media/tone which never used to exist. Is the emperor finally finding out he has no clothes?

P.S. Purely anecdotal, living close to a university, I've never seen so many houses (student rental properties) up for sale round my way. Less students, more purpose build student accommodation, S24/HRMC...who'd be a student slumlord huh? My heart bleeds...lolz 😁😂

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12 hours ago, highcontrast said:

It yet again confirms that the whole system is purely about numbers/bums on seats i.e. money!

From last year - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46374281

"Unconditional offers used to 'get people through door"

The university bubble is certainly bursting...and lots of negative media/tone which never used to exist. Is the emperor finally finding out he has no clothes?

P.S. Purely anecdotal, living close to a university, I've never seen so many houses (student rental properties) up for sale round my way. Less students, more purpose build student accommodation, S24/HRMC...who'd be a student slumlord huh? My heart bleeds...lolz 😁😂

There are student landlords who bought in the last few years getting out of the game due to tax changes but listing them high selling price. I don't think this small scale dumping of student property is having an effect on property as other landlords are waiting to snap up those properties when priced realistically. Clearly it not filtered through to the Universities and large student companies that the market is saturated. With all the brexit news, they've not heard the chinese economy is slowing down. It like living in mini china town in some areas. 

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Sorry if veering more off topic again with Student BTL, but strangely had a leaflet through the door from the the biggest letting agent in the area for student properties, apparently "20% off with this leaflet", obviously they'll be a million hoops to jump through to get 20% off your rent,  but the student landlords are getting screwed IMO with more purpose built accommodation and in general the University Bubble bursting i.e. less students. In fact, vice versa... the fact they are getting more desperate is a good indicator of bubble bursting perhaps.

HPC2.thumb.jpg.0e2659f333e1e19579ed05a46580320f.jpg

 

P.s. If you're a student BTL slumlord reading this...lolz

Edited by highcontrast

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Lady at work's husband has various student properties as his sole income. Not sure if any kind of sign but he's just converted their outbuilding into a crypto mining "lab". Special cooling, insulation, the works.

Wtaf!?

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15 hours ago, Sausage said:

Lady at work's husband has various student properties as his sole income. Not sure if any kind of sign but he's just converted their outbuilding into a crypto mining "lab". Special cooling, insulation, the works.

Wtaf!?

Peak everything. Now is the end of times. I'm going down pub.

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1 hour ago, monkeyman1974 said:

Peak everything. Now is the end of times. I'm going down pub.

"Peak Everything".  Well said, sums things up well IMO... peak university, peak house prices, peak fear of missing out (FOMO), peak employment, peak crypto, peak BTL, peak immigration, peak Brexit, peak social media, peak Celebrity Love Island etc etc...could be the start of a thread in its own right. And yes...now could be the end of times!

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14 hours ago, highcontrast said:

"Peak Everything".  Well said, sums things up well IMO..

Indeed. Cheap credit has stuffed up the entire economy, to the point where only a major crash can save it.

Not just in housing or universities, but the whole damn thing has to crash and return some kind of reality to the world.

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Reading University in crisis amid questions over £121mil land sales

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/feb/09/reading-university-in-crisis-amid-questions-over-121m-land-sales

 

The revelations are the latest symptom of the financial pressures facing those universities among the losers from the UK’s boom in higher education, fuelled by higher borrowing and lax administration based on over-optimistic forecasts of student numbers.

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1 hour ago, PeanutButter said:

Reading University in crisis amid questions over £121mil land sales

Reading University accounts (pdf)  The numbers begin on page 36.

Current assets less liabilities falling due within 1 year are only £82.1m.  Most of the liquidatable non-current assets are commercial and residential investment properties and a joint venture in student residential accommodation!

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11 minutes ago, Will! said:

Reading University accounts (pdf)  The numbers begin on page 36.

Current assets less liabilities falling due within 1 year are only £82.1m.  Most of the liquidatable non-current assets are commercial and residential investment properties and a joint venture in student residential accommodation!

Can you imagine what Reading University would be worth if it went under.  Their main site is around 300 acres so might be worth a few bob.

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6 hours ago, Habeas Domus said:

Radio 4 - University Businesses

 

Universities have expanded hugely over the last decade. Can they ever be successful businesses?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002cgm

Profit/loss varies from +20% to -7%

The programme becomes interesting at 15 minutes when the VC of Northampton talks about the cheap money boom and borrowing £231m at 42 basis points above the gilt rate over 40 years (all with government guarantees of course) in the last five years to build a new campus.  He sounds quite relaxed about this, as well he might be given that the taxpayer is on the hook if and when Northampton can't service the loans.

Edited by Will!

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On 09/02/2019 at 12:40, PeanutButter said:

Reading University in crisis amid questions over £121mil land sales

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/feb/09/reading-university-in-crisis-amid-questions-over-121m-land-sales

 

The revelations are the latest symptom of the financial pressures facing those universities among the losers from the UK’s boom in higher education, fuelled by higher borrowing and lax administration based on over-optimistic forecasts of student numbers.

"...over-optimistic forecasts of student numbers". This is key, and this is whats going to bite them on the backside. Even as recently as three years ago it was all about growth, growth growth...don't think for one second they thought it could go the other way (a bit like the sheeple thinking HPI to inifiti and beyond).

And similarily, because they thought there would "always" be increasing numbers of students,  I think lots of universities (not just Reading)  have heavily expended into building their own student residential accomodation...after all, it's a never ending money spinner...innit!

22 hours ago, Will! said:

Reading University accounts (pdf)  The numbers begin on page 36.

Current assets less liabilities falling due within 1 year are only £82.1m.  Most of the liquidatable non-current assets are commercial and residential investment properties and a joint venture in student residential accommodation!

It's all going end very badly.  But would the government let a big university go under?

Edited by highcontrast
my universiti degree didn't hlep my speliing

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1 hour ago, highcontrast said:

"...over-optimistic forecasts of student numbers". This is key, and this is whats going to bite them on the backside. Even as recently as three years ago it was all about growth, growth growth...don't think for one second they thought it could go the other way (a bit like the sheeple thinking HPI to inifiti and beyond).

And similarily, because they thought there would "always" be increasing numbers of students,  I think lots of universities (not just Reading)  have heavily expended into building their own student residential accomodation...after all, it's a never ending money spinner...innit!

It's all going end very badly.  But would the government let a big university go under?

Not go under, mergers and redundancies is what will happen, our uni has hugh deficit, talking of merger with ex-poly. However:-

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/feb/07/record-numbers-china-hong-kong-applying-study-uk-universities

if Brexit happens, the gov will be more or less forced to open the flood gates on chinese students to get their hands on hard currency

expect engineering schools to bear the brunt

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1 hour ago, highcontrast said:

It's all going end very badly.  But would the government let a big university go under?

Depends on the risk of a knock-on effect for the entire UK sector I suppose.

When you change the structure from one where the government is the provider of a free service/benefit to the taxpayer (ie students and society in general) and replace it with students funding almost 50% of university income, you change the end product (educated people) into products themselves (headcount). 

UK tuition fees are the highest in the world, but would anyone claim we produce the best graduates?

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