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Surely the subject of pensions should have been STRONGLY debated prior to this BREXIT mess? VERY STRONGLY.

Instead we got politicians shouting over each other about perceived threats from outside of our border.

This is very real and happening now. We're getting poorer.

http://www.pensions-insight.co.uk/home/pensions-and-brexit-all-bets-are-off/14747061.article?

Pensions and Brexit – all bets are off

http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/issues/30-june-2016/31-steve-bee/?

The UK’s state pension crunch will hit in the 2020s

http://www.actuarialpost.co.uk/news/article/ftse350-pension-deficit-soars-to-record-%C2%A3119bn-after-brexit-9721.htm?

Mercer’s Pensions Risk Survey data shows that the accounting deficit of defined benefit (DB) pension schemes for the UK’s 350 largest listed companies increased from £98 billion on 31 May 2016 to £119 billion at the end of June in the aftermath of the Brexit vote.

http://www.pensionsage.com/pa/Annuities-falling-like-a-stone-post-Brexit-market.php%20.php?

Annuities 'falling like a stone' post-Brexit

http://www.cityam.com/244668/brexit-shines-light-pensions

As the economic landscape shifts in the wake of the referendum, one of the most dramatic impacts has been on defined benefit, or final salary, pensions.

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2016/07/04/u-k-pension-fund-deficit-likely-to-hit-record-as-brexit-turmoil-squashes-bond-yields/

U.K. Pension Fund Deficit Likely to Hit Record as Brexit Turmoil Squashes Bond Yields

And what about the millions of UK expat retirees? They are going to get hammered.

Why was all this 'kind of important' stuff FECKIN IGNORED in all the TV debates?

Instead we're focused on Piotr and Rafal the Polish builders?

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Absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. The world, Western/USD-centric economy is doomed to fail. Brexit is an irrelevance and we need to leave anyway.

Edited by Errol

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Pensions were an unsustainable bubble before Brexit.

They remain an unsustainable bubble after Brexit, much like the rest of the UK economy.

Do you mean state pension, final salary, DC-based, or all ?

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Surely the subject of pensions should have been STRONGLY debated prior to this BREXIT mess? VERY STRONGLY.

Instead we got politicians shouting over each other about perceived threats from outside of our border.

This is very real and happening now. We're getting poorer.

http://www.pensions-insight.co.uk/home/pensions-and-brexit-all-bets-are-off/14747061.article?

http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/issues/30-june-2016/31-steve-bee/?

http://www.actuarialpost.co.uk/news/article/ftse350-pension-deficit-soars-to-record-%C2%A3119bn-after-brexit-9721.htm?

http://www.pensionsage.com/pa/Annuities-falling-like-a-stone-post-Brexit-market.php%20.php?

http://www.cityam.com/244668/brexit-shines-light-pensions

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2016/07/04/u-k-pension-fund-deficit-likely-to-hit-record-as-brexit-turmoil-squashes-bond-yields/

And what about the millions of UK expat retirees? They are going to get hammered.

Why was all this 'kind of important' stuff FECKIN IGNORED in all the TV debates?

Instead we're focused on Piotr and Rafal the Polish builders?

O I See.

Is this why you've been so mental about the brexit result?

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Well,

Each time we have some talking (think)head banging on about QE + lower IRs, they come out with the standard line:

'People will save on their mortgage ..'

Without mentioning that the money you save on the mortgage is more than lost on extra pension contributions.

Its not a conspiracy, just thick financial journos.

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I've got an old DB pension and sometimes wonder if I should convert it to a SIPP. I'm sure transfer value would be pretty appealing right now.

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Why was all this 'kind of important' stuff FECKIN IGNORED in all the TV debates?

I get to state pension age in 4 years and was fully aware that pensions would take a hit and I would be poorer in retirement if we left, I voted out.

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At the end of 2015 it was reported that the median pensioner income of £398 per week had overtaken the £384 median income of working age people.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pensioners-earning-more-than-the-average-worker-new-analysis-says-a6701851.html

So from late 2015 pensioners have become better off than working people.

Like that's sustainable.

So how will the rebalancing take place? Will workers see their incomes rising, or will pensioners face more taxation and a cut in benefits? Hmm, let me think.

Brexit throws up a very rare opportunity for the government to get to grips with all sorts of thorny decisions under the guise of national imperative, bet you a pound to a penny this will be one of them.

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It gets my goat that all this was about "stealing the future of the young" etc.

It's the reverse: it's precisely when you're approaching pension age that you least need market uncertainty. "The young" could find themselves back in the EU when the present generation of politicians is out the way (not very long IMHO...)

Pension funds were awash with money in the 1990's. Companies dipped into them, took pension contribution holidays and Gordon Brown started taxing them.

Now, there are not really many pension schemes left. You have a savings scheme instead, with a small tax incentive.

Life expectancy is decreasing, and the pension age is 68, at which age a large proportion of the surviving population will have a life-limiting health condition. What more do you want?

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Pensions were an unsustainable bubble before Brexit.

They remain an unsustainable bubble after Brexit, much like the rest of the UK economy.

What's unsustainable about paying a large, unproductive section of our population a sum equivalent to almost three times the average Chinese workers' salary - people, who actually produce stuff the world wants to buy - with only very low returns on the the very small pool of assets to fund it?

Oh, hang on, I see....

Absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. The world, Western/USD-centric economy is doomed to fail. Brexit is an irrelevance and we need to leave anyway.

Yes, the old order changeth. Very hard for any politician to articulate this without facing electoral annihilation, but one day, someone is going to have to tell the truth.

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O I See.

Is this why you've been so mental about the brexit result?

I'll quote Christopher Waltz.. it's the "abysmal stupidity"... of the whole affair... and the 'rats leaving the sinking ship' which irks me most.

Mental about pensions? Not so much for myself but I have a lot of family over here that are going to be squeezed.

I have an exit strategy in place if it all goes pete tong.. which it appears to be. Back over to Canada.

Not what I had in mind when I moved back here to enjoy the British/European passport perks.

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I'll quote Christopher Waltz.. it's the "abysmal stupidity"... of the whole affair... and the 'rats leaving the sinking ship' which irks me most.

Mental about pensions? Not so much for myself but I have a lot of family over here that are going to be squeezed.

I have an exit strategy in place if it all goes pete tong.. which it appears to be. Back over to Canada.

Not what I had in mind when I moved back here to enjoy the British/European passport perks.

Free lunch leaving a bitter taste in your mouth?

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Definitely worth looking into.

I know several people who have done this recently. Getting up to 30x their payout.

You can leave it as a tax free lump sum to your kids/girl friend ( ;) ) or whatever.

Might sound tempting, but 30x benefits relative to the cost of a comparable annuity isn't actually that great. Still, it's symptomatic of how the pensions industry still struggles to get its head around the new reality. When calculating Life Time Allowances the taxman basically assumes x20 for a DB component, but x20 hasn't been on the table from annuity providers for an awfully long time.

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Annuity rates - which determine the value of pension incomes - have been 'in freefall' since the UK's vote to leave the EU, according to an expert.

Rates have fallen by 3.5% in the two weeks since 24 June, said Tom McPhail, head of retirement policy at Hargreaves Lansdown.

Before the vote, a 65 year-old with savings of £100,000 would have been able to buy an annual income of £5,069.

Now the value of that pension has dropped to £4,890, a new record low.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36749825

Annuity rates have been in freefall since brexit. Much spitting out of coffee. Not sure where it leaves the state pension. Blooming valuable!

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Yup, correct.

OK. And the FTSE's up since Brexit, so what's the issue? I presume that the pension funds are primarily invested, and aren't just sitting in GBP. Even if they are, they're paying out in GBP so I can't see that they're any less likely to be paid than they were before.

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Annuity rates have been in freefall since brexit. Much spitting out of coffee. Not sure where it leaves the state pension. Blooming valuable!

They need to take a longer view. That £100k may have just dropped below £5k (or half that if you want a pension that rises year by year), but back in the '90s that would've been £15k.

That's what's hit boomers, compared to rich pensioners.

And that's what's zombified companies with final salary schemes.

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They need to take a longer view. That £100k may have just dropped below £5k (or half that if you want a pension that rises year by year), but back in the '90s that would've been £15k.

That's what's hit boomers, compared to rich pensioners.

And that's what's zombified companies with final salary schemes.

That's also why believe we're in the early stages of a 20odd year bear market in uk housing, began 2007 Edited by Si1

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OK. And the FTSE's up since Brexit, so what's the issue? I presume that the pension funds are primarily invested, and aren't just sitting in GBP. Even if they are, they're paying out in GBP so I can't see that they're any less likely to be paid than they were before.

People want to buy a guaranteed income (annuity) when they retire so they don't need to think if investment performance is going to affect them paying their bills. Under the recent rules, you can fully exhaust a pension fund via drawdown.

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People want to buy a guaranteed income (annuity) when they retire so they don't need to think if investment performance is going to affect them paying their bills. Under the recent rules, you can fully exhaust a pension fund via drawdown.

There's a lot to be said for that.

I purchased an annuity when I retired 8 years ago, so far it has paid out 8/14ths of the value of my pension pot, (after deduction of the 25% tax free lump sum). All of my friends said I was mad and should have managed the pot myself and used drawdown for income but I have not regretted my decision to purchase the annuity at 7.5%.

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People want to buy a guaranteed income (annuity) when they retire so they don't need to think if investment performance is going to affect them paying their bills. Under the recent rules, you can fully exhaust a pension fund via drawdown.

Well unfortunately there are no guarantees in life. I know that most people don't enjoy thinking, but from where we are there aren't any easy options.

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