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Why The Petition For A 2Nd Referendum Is A Farce

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The petition for a 2nd referendum requires a 75% turnout. So to filibuster any decision on whether to be in the EU or not, the Remain voters simply wouldn't turn up to vote in the 2nd referendum - therefore turnout would be well below 75%, and the status quo would be unchanged - technically still in the EU, as if we had a 2nd referendum, the 1st would be considered null and void.

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Ignoring a democratic vote is the stuff that civil wars are made of. It is an essential ingredient of a successful democracy that everyone agrees to respect the process and any outcome of it, regardless of how much they hate it.

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Ochlocracy... rule of the crowd

A country should not be making fundamental, irreversible changes based on a razor-thin minority that might prevail only during a brief window of emotion.‪#‎buyersremorse‬

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/brexit-democratic-failure-for-uk-by-kenneth-rogoff-2016-06

Hilarious, so how big must the majority be to be acceptable to you? 72%? 80%? more? why not move the goalposts each time democracy doesn't work in your favour!

I think you need to actually think about what you are suggesting, and have an army big enough to back it up.

Edited by JustAnotherProle

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There was a petition signed by 17.4 million people last Thursday and that was despite mass state propaganda, terrorism ( effectively ) and the timely death of an MP with 2 kids and a birthday the day before the vote :blink:

Want a game of top trump ?

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There was a petition signed by 17.4 million people last Thursday and that was despite mass state propaganda, terrorism ( effectively ) and the timely death of an MP with 2 kids and a birthday the day before the vote :blink:

Want a game of top trump ?

What is really disturbing is the Scottish leaders total disregard for democracy and her delusional ramblings about blocking the will of 17.4 million people because she doesn't personally like the results! Why they are allowed to get away with this nonsense is beyond me.

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Hilarious, so how big must the majority be to be acceptable to you? 72%? 80%? more? why not move the goalposts each time democracy doesn't work in your favour!

I think you need to actually think about what you are suggesting, and have an army big enough to back it up.

Hahaha it might actually help if you actually read the article!

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Quite. The referendum has happened. Accept and move on. This petition is a total nonsense, and I write as an "in" voter.

Well, I was just saying it's a farce - not that I want a 2nd referendum. We had one already, and people need to accept the result

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What is really disturbing is the Scottish leaders total disregard for democracy and her delusional ramblings about blocking the will of 17.4 million people because she doesn't personally like the results! Why they are allowed to get away with this nonsense is beyond me.

Is it really democratic if we tell Scotland what to do? Just as we were told by Brussels? I think you'll find there wasn't a single region of Scotland that voted Leave.

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It is not razor thin.

Every region except London, where nationalist issues didn't dominate, voted Out.

And the split was about 55% to 45% across England and Wales on a truly stunning turnout.

You can't get much more conclusive for those who want to remain a part of Britain.

Re write what you just said, and replace with Scotland and Northern Ireland.

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Is it really democratic if we tell Scotland what to do? Just as we were told by Brussels? I think you'll find there wasn't a single region of Scotland that voted Leave.

They had a referendum and opted to stay within the UK (thats democracy in action btw), it just so happens it hasn't turned out how they would have wanted. They don't have any legal leg to stand on as far as another referendum or anything else, let alone the economical capacity to go it alone. The delusions are strong up north it seems.

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Ochlocracy... rule of the crowd

A country should not be making fundamental, irreversible changes based on a razor-thin minority that might prevail only during a brief window of emotion.‪#‎buyersremorse‬

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/brexit-democratic-failure-for-uk-by-kenneth-rogoff-2016-06

The country is not making any decision. The referendum was advisory - that was always made clear. It is up to Parliament to vote to leave the European Union, taking into account the will of the majority of the British electorate. That will was not just a 'brief window of emotion' but the end result of years of dissatisfaction with the status quo, as evidenced by the rise of UKIP. I agree the majority is slim - that will need to be taken into account during the process of realignment with EU countries.

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All referenda are farce.

Nothing binding about them. It's not an election.

It's a government, not it's people.

Yes, a portion of the population has spoken and given a mandate, but there is no LEGAL requirement for it to be acted upon.

All that has succeeded is that both main parties have gone into meltdown and our economy is currently being ransackd.

All on speculation.

Which is what you lot are doing. Speculating, and putting conjecture and opinion forward as fact.

You lot need to wise up.

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They had a referendum and opted to stay within the UK (thats democracy in action btw), it just so happens it hasn't turned out how they would have wanted. They don't have any legal leg to stand on as far as another referendum or anything else, let alone the economical capacity to go it alone. The delusions are strong up north it seems.

Unfortunately that doesn't look like it's going to stop them. They'll tear everything apart and just bleat on "it's all your fault for voting to leave the EU." I wouldn't mind them continuing to press to leave the UK if they had a good reason for doing so (and "I just prefer the idea of an independent Scotland" is a perfectly good reason).

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All referenda are farce.

Nothing binding about them. It's not an election.

It's a government, not it's people.

Yes, a portion of the population has spoken and given a mandate, but there is no LEGAL requirement for it to be acted upon.

All that has succeeded is that both main parties have gone into meltdown and our economy is currently being ransackd.

All on speculation.

Which is what you lot are doing. Speculating, and putting conjecture and opinion forward as fact.

You lot need to wise up.

There's no legal requirement but ignoring it would be political suicide, and rightly so.

As for the main parties going into meltdown and the economic effects, good. They're both based on hot air and nonsense and aren't serving us well at all.

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There's no legal requirement but ignoring it would be political suicide, and rightly so.

As for the main parties going into meltdown and the economic effects, good. They're both based on hot air and nonsense and aren't serving us well at all.

Exactly, this has caused the comfortable political elite to wake up to the truth that they do not run the show, the people do. The chaos this has caused is delicious, from chaos and uncertainty comes change, and we as a nation desperately need it. I hope our example leads the world.

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They had a referendum and opted to stay within the UK (thats democracy in action btw), it just so happens it hasn't turned out how they would have wanted. They don't have any legal leg to stand on as far as another referendum or anything else, let alone the economical capacity to go it alone. The delusions are strong up north it seems.

Well on a legal stand point, therefore would you accept that the referendum was 'advisory'

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All referenda are farce.

Nothing binding about them. It's not an election.

It's a government, not it's people.

Yes, a portion of the population has spoken and given a mandate, but there is no LEGAL requirement for it to be acted upon.

All that has succeeded is that both main parties have gone into meltdown and our economy is currently being ransackd.

All on speculation.

Which is what you lot are doing. Speculating, and putting conjecture and opinion forward as fact.

You lot need to wise up.

Except every single MP (OK, barring David Lammy FFS!) and especially those in power: Cameron, Osborne, Junker, Merckl, Hollande, etc have accepted the result, and accepted the UK will no longer be a part of the EU. They've explicitly stated it in clear English. If they were going to weasel out of it, they wouldn't have been so forthright in respecting the will of the people. Cameron's literally resigned - what's he going to do? Unresign and do a u-turn on everything?

Edited by canbuywontbuy

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Exactly, this has caused the comfortable political elite to wake up to the truth that they do not run the show, the people do. The chaos this has caused is delicious, from chaos and uncertainty comes change, and we as a nation desperately need it. I hope our example leads the world.

The world is BADLY in need of creative destruction like this. We don't need war or violence - just the will of the people being honoured.

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Exactly, this has caused the comfortable political elite to wake up to the truth that they do not run the show, the people do. The chaos this has caused is delicious, from chaos and uncertainty comes change, and we as a nation desperately need it. I hope our example leads the world.

I'm usually the last person to want change, but that's only because so much of it is merely change for the sake of it (and the results generally have no appeal at all). Now we've got an opportunity for really meaningful change, and to hurt genuine problems. What we're going to replace them with is still rather a big issue that certainly hasn't been addressed yet, so this isn't the best way of going about it but was the only chance we were going to get at all.

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Ochlocracy... rule of the crowd

A country should not be making fundamental, irreversible changes based on a razor-thin minority that might prevail only during a brief window of emotion.‪#‎buyersremorse‬

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/brexit-democratic-failure-for-uk-by-kenneth-rogoff-2016-06

A supermajority of 60% might have been a better system.

But the time to argue for this was before the referendum.

If there's any buyer's remorse - it's in the Remain camp, who were so confident that the country would overwhelmingly vote "Remain" that they never bothered to check the T&Cs of the referendum.

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Well on a legal stand point, therefore would you accept that the referendum was 'advisory'

From a legal stand point yes, but this is the mandate from the people, they are the law. It's widely accepted that the UK is leaving, this is a fact and is essentially an unalterable one, despite the desire from some that it isn't reality.

Edited by JustAnotherProle

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