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porca misèria

Boris Comes A Cropper

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Once upon a long time ago, my dad told me about selling one’s soul to the devil. I think it must’ve been in connection with (a childrens version of) the Faust story, but the suggestion was that there were quite a few such instances.

The Devil would always cheat on his side of the bargain. The archetypal lawyer, he’d find loopholes in a literal interpretation of the text, and catch you out on them. You of course don’t stand a chance – unless perhaps you’re Goethe’s very metaphysical Faust, or maybe a modern sendup.

Today it seems Boris is caught. The charismatic, populist toff has all the attributes of a diabolical bargain, and in spades. Indeed, altogether more so even than Trump, from whose wildly successful campaigning style Boris has clearly taken inspiration.

The master plan was obviously a Boys Own scenario: come to power at the nadir of the the worst crisis since the 1970s (perhaps even the 1940s, at least in his dreams) and turn the country around. But that needed a scapegoat, to take the impossible (but eminently blameable) decisions that will now lead us to that low point. Cameron’s resignation today came too early for the master plan: he’s not going to be that scapegoat. So now it seems Boris has to take over too early and take that blame, or else chicken out at this obvious moment.

Whoops!

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Its like someone wants the UK to fail..Scapegoat?...before the event...we all know how good these peeps are at predicting things.

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I've said before I think he's been playing by the old script of Julius Caesar.

Gain political power in your own right separate from the main party - Mayor of London / Pontifex Maximus (Chief Priest).

Wait for / trigger a crisis.

Paint yourself as the people's candidate.

Step into power.

The effect upon domestic politics is going to be really interesting.

What we have said for years on here about the political and media establishment all being in it together with LibLabCon effectively being a single party is being cited as a key reason for the vote: rejection of this unchanging establishment.

Now they've been knocked asunder.

There is a clear call for there to be a proper Labour party of the working classes.

The Europhile Conservatives are toast and UKIP has much in common with the remaining Conservatives. So two parties into two different ones there?

Resulting in:

Traditional Labour - Frank Field

SJW Labour - Corbyn

Establishment Conservatives - Osborne

Traditional Conservatives - Farage / Boris

And the Liberal SDP whatever still in the mix somewhere clinging on.

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Its like someone wants the UK to fail..Scapegoat?...before the event...we all know how good these peeps are at predicting things.

The present UK economic model of an economy based on ever increasing house prices, funded by ever increasing debt, needs to fail and quickly.

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The present UK economic model of an economy based on ever increasing house prices, funded by ever increasing debt, needs to fail and quickly.

You missed one...immigration. Short term revenue gains on access level jobs. Cataclysmic bankruptcy by 2050 when the penniless immigrants claim a whole gamut of retirement goodies...health, housing,income guarantees. Tenfold their tax contributions.

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Boris is screwed. He failed to unite the country to leave and now steps into a political crisis. If he does go for leave fully he's likely to break up the UK I doubt he wants that. If trys to do anything other than leave to try and keep the union together he won't last long.

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....

Resulting in:

Traditional Labour - Frank Field

SJW Labour - Corbyn

Establishment Conservatives - Osborne

Traditional Conservatives - Farage / Boris

And the Liberal SDP whatever still in the mix somewhere clinging on.

Personally I think an overtly Muslim party could be added to this list of hypothetical parties. They already pull the strings in many urban Labour strongholds anyway (I recall 40+ being cited before the 2015 GE). Although a reverse takeover of 'SJW Labour' could achieve their aims I suppose. If there doesn't, then a Respect Mk II would have an open goal.

But whatever emerges, in a multi polar political system like this it would be imperative to have some form of proportional representation - the old FPTP system was only every justified when there were 2 main candidates.

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Is Boris a dead cert for leader anyway?

The Tory party is pretty much split 50/50

Give him a few months and I think he'll be leading a political party. It may or may not be called the conservative party.

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Boris is screwed. He failed to unite the country to leave and now steps into a political crisis. If he does go for leave fully he's likely to break up the UK I doubt he wants that. If trys to do anything other than leave to try and keep the union together he won't last long.

I don't think he planned to unite the country. I think he hoped to unite the Tory party under a Leave policy.

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I don't think he planned to unite the country. I think he hoped to unite the Tory party under a Leave policy.

Wow. That's quite a fail - almost as great a fail as Cameron's hope of uniting the party

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I don't like Johnson but Cameron's behaviour on Friday sickened me.

He called the referendum for his own political purposes but when faced with the consequences he simply cried and ran away. His gutless performance made the much maligned Neville Chamberlain look like a titan. At least the latter had the courage to recognise his appeasement policy had failed and took Britain to war in 1939.

This country has faced much bigger crises in its history and has usually found the Parliamentary leaders both on the right and left to take it through them. Now all we have is PR wonks, spivs, corporate place men, ex political interns, ageing left wing students etc who seem to cave in the first moment the going gets rough. Miliband and Cameron resigning when they lose being prime examples. I am no lover of Angela Merkel's politics but I admire her tenacity in a crisis. She screwed up over the migrant policy but she did not quit. I haven't seen any leading British politician to match her.

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I don't think he planned to unite the country. I think he hoped to unite the Tory party under a Leave policy.

I don't think he ever expected to win.

I think he saw a leaderless leave campaign and, feeling sympathetic to the cause, stepped in to give them hope and a voice and a bit of his pro-British spirit.

Now he may have to take this further than he ever wanted or expected to..

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Boris is screwed. He failed to unite the country to leave and now steps into a political crisis. If he does go for leave fully he's likely to break up the UK I doubt he wants that. If trys to do anything other than leave to try and keep the union together he won't last long.

The Union with Scotland was doomed as soon as the 2015 General Election results came in. The UK is not going to survive as a political entity in its current form whether we stay in the EU or not. The first English politician with the courage to recognise that fact and calls Sturgeons bluff is going to be a big winner. Unfortunately, they are all essentially ambitious cowards which is probably the worst combination of personality traits at the moment. Frankly most of them are not worth a penny of the money we pay them.

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You missed one...immigration. Short term revenue gains on access level jobs. Cataclysmic bankruptcy by 2050 when the penniless immigrants claim a whole gamut of retirement goodies...health, housing,income guarantees. Tenfold their tax contributions.

The vast hordes of immigrants are indeed claiming pensions.

Some of today's lesser hordes will do so in due course. Others will return home, as many Poles have done with their own country's circumstances improving.

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Personally I think an overtly Muslim party could be added to this list of hypothetical parties. They already pull the strings in many urban Labour strongholds anyway (I recall 40+ being cited before the 2015 GE). Although a reverse takeover of 'SJW Labour' could achieve their aims I suppose. If there doesn't, then a Respect Mk II would have an open goal.

But whatever emerges, in a multi polar political system like this it would be imperative to have some form of proportional representation - the old FPTP system was only every justified when there were 2 main candidates.

I thought that there was a muslim takeover of the Lib Dems or Greens underway as in the Nordic countries.

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I don't like Johnson but Cameron's behaviour on Friday sickened me.

He called the referendum for his own political purposes but when faced with the consequences he simply cried and ran away. His gutless performance made the much maligned Neville Chamberlain look like a titan. At least the latter had the courage to recognise his appeasement policy had failed and took Britain to war in 1939.

You've changed your tune:

Has Cameron managed to come up with one single positive argument in the entire campaign.

He really is a Custard Pie King Lear who own decisions are entirely responsible for dividing the country.

If the whole EU referendum turns into a disaster for the government then the only person to blame will be him for calling it in the first place.

[...]

Personally I think both Cameron and Osborne need to be removed from office after this fiasco regardless of the result.

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You've changed your tune:

Not really.

The reason I wanted both him and Osborne removed was because they are the authors of this crisis

In fact my post you quoted about Cameron needing to be replaced was made in the expectation that Remain would win the Referendum narrowly which is what I have stated elsewhere on this board. I got that call wrong and so it appears did Cameron and Osborne.

Cameron's behaviour both in using a constitutional Referendum as a short term political fix and then not having any real plan to deal with the aftermath is indicative of why he was not fit for the high office he held.

It just might just have behoved him to have stuck around a bit longer than a few hours after the end and dealt with the consequences of his decision to call a Referendum before handing in his resignation. Basically it seems he just wants to draw his pay check until the end of the Parliamentary recess in October which to me seems almost pointless. I assume that is due the fact we no longer appear to have Deputy PM who can fill in during a crisis

At least for once a prediction of mine has come true. Like King Lear Cameron really has succeeded in dividing his own kingdom against itself. He has earned his place in the history books though probably not for the reasons he wants.

I notice Osborne is still hanging around like a bad smell.

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All very well to criticise Cameron for "not having any real plan to deal with the aftermath", but it appears that the Leave leaders like Gove and Johnson likewise don't know what to do.

It's a massive mess, and the fear is it's only going to get worse.

How should we respond if things kick off in northern Ireland again? Let them loose?

Here's my solution (probably unfeasible, highly unlikely to be taken up by anyone"

A leader of a political party goes into the election with Article 50 not yet invoked

"Yes the people of the UK, concerned by mass immigration and strains on the benefit system, voted by a small majority to Leave the UK. However it quickly became clear that the Leave side had lied (about the nhs £360 million, Turkey, being able to stop migrant numbers). So I say to you I will enact measures within the EU that will stop benefit migration. Benefits will switch in the main to being contribution based, and the safety net benefits will only apply to those already resident in the country for x years. Furthermore we will deny residency permits to newcomers from overseas unless they can produce evidence of a job and/or savings that show they will not be a burden. These measures are already present in EU countries, so there will be no obstacle to introducing them here. I also promise to veto any new entrants to the EU whilst I am in power. "

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The vast hordes of immigrants are indeed claiming pensions.

Some of today's lesser hordes will do so in due course. Others will return home, as many Poles have done with their own country's circumstances improving.

If you get citizenship you get full welfare in retirement whether you have put in five, ten or fifteen years work...the universal pension is a red herring there will always be a minimum income fall back. Immigrants come with zero equity, they will require lifetime housing benefit (by and large) once work ceases and in many cases when it is still running. Any net tax benefits now will be wiped out in decades to come leading to national bankruptcy.

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The referendum has been had. When will people get it?

I like that the media are trumpeting 1.5 million votes on a petition for a new referendum.

I think we just had 17.4 million votes for out and remain lost with 16.1 million.

The biggest petition of them all was the 17.4 million votes cats for independence.

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^ posted with glee by a friend of mine. The majority of comments (from mutual friends of our) said the way the criwd were acting was a bit shameful.

It's been very revealing for me...I know a mix of Leavers and Remainers. More Leave than I would have expected. All of the folks sounding off in a distasteful way have turned out to be Greens

P

Slimy things that go off!

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All very well to criticise Cameron for "not having any real plan to deal with the aftermath", but it appears that the Leave leaders like Gove and Johnson likewise don't know what to do.

It's a massive mess, and the fear is it's only going to get worse.

How should we respond if things kick off in northern Ireland again? Let them loose?

Here's my solution (probably unfeasible, highly unlikely to be taken up by anyone"

A leader of a political party goes into the election with Article 50 not yet invoked

"Yes the people of the UK, concerned by mass immigration and strains on the benefit system, voted by a small majority to Leave the UK. However it quickly became clear that the Leave side had lied (about the nhs £360 million, Turkey, being able to stop migrant numbers). So I say to you I will enact measures within the EU that will stop benefit migration. Benefits will switch in the main to being contribution based, and the safety net benefits will only apply to those already resident in the country for x years. Furthermore we will deny residency permits to newcomers from overseas unless they can produce evidence of a job and/or savings that show they will not be a burden. These measures are already present in EU countries, so there will be no obstacle to introducing them here. I also promise to veto any new entrants to the EU whilst I am in power. "

Oh I agree totally.

Most of the Leave campaign are equally guilty of making ridiculous promises on which they will inevitably renage. Ultimately though the decision was Cameron's and Parliaments. There are nowhere enough MPs on the Leave campaign side to have been able to vote the EU Referendum 2016 Act into law on their own. It required those on the Remain side to make it a reality.

British politicians and bureaucrats have hidden behind the EU as an excuse for their own political failure for far too long. Now they are going to have to take responsibility for the decisions themselves.

And as I have said elsewhere my voting decision in this Referendum were based on revisiting some of the arguments presented in 1975 not the rubbish spouted by both camps this time round.

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