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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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6 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

I didn't mentioned debt (and if I did I'd be more interested in total, or at least inflation-adjusted total). Was Britain a better place to live in before or after Labour? You can very reasonably argue that that's just continuing trends that have continued since, but I'd certainly rather be in 1997 than 2017 if I had the choice.

Well, no offence, but that's just your natural disposition. The world, ultimately, changes. It won't be the same place in 10 years time. However there is one thing that is certain to stay the same, certain characters will continue to say that the past was always better and everything has become so much worse. Repeat ad infinitum.

So, I still dispute your implication that any youth should be able to see what a "dreadful job" Labour did. In the context that you made your comment, I agree with @pig if you blame the youth for falling for political promises, then you can blame inexperience. Why do the old continue to vote for the Tories?

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6 hours ago, Qetesuesi said:

To be fair, judging by the camera pan of the audience at that point, I didn't see more than half the audience clapping so that would be the lefty half.  They can clap as hard as they like, and fair enough, given the seat never went red even in the Blair landslides.  Credit to Comrade Jeremy and team.

As for the snowflake in the bubble, to discerning minds it actually shows how ignorant and/or brainwashed a lot of the yoof are, and puts a whole new perspective on why such a demographic (a) voted big to remain last June and (b) voted big for Jeremy just now.  Frankly though, now is a very poor historical vantage point from which to view people in a seeming fit of sodomania - future historians will simply shake their heads at how they totemised something with no objective public benefit whatsoever.

I did find the bloke I think ccc meant, not very eloquent at that, basically saying Brexit would ruin us - not sure why Brexiter ccc would think that worth noting?

It's just the way he looked like he was about to have a heart attack at the thought. 

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57 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Why do the old continue to vote for the Tories?

Clemenceau's law?

Having said that, it's for sure that many, probably older party members tore up their cards when Cameron - and May - decided to stick it to marriage in 2013.  Nemesis has sure been a bitch for them both.

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4 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

The EU were prepared to offer a custom deal but previously the May didn't want to discuss it. It will of course mean that nothing really changes, beyond some temporary restriction on FoM and what we have always been free to do,but will technically mean we have left the EU so satisfiing the result of the referendum.

This is all the Brexiters can realistically hope for now, as despite all the attempts upstream to rat ionise the result of the GE as nothing to do with Brexit the reality it was called specifically to obtain a stronger mandate for the Brexit negotiations and failed.

It also means the HoL is no longer bound to accept May's Brexit as part of a majority Manifesto and of course Parliament itself is no longer morally bound by the referendum result.

 

 

Why is Parliment no longer morally bound by the referendum result? I though both Labour and Tory had Brexiting as part of their manifesto and combined took what 80% of the vote. 

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8 hours ago, olliegog said:

a snowflake saying how petrified' she was about the DUP who are against gay marriage and deny climate change

DUP support was important to the Tory governments in the 1990s. David Trimble was frequently appearing alongside the PM, and at Tory party conferences. It's funny that now they have become labelled as crazies, because the media weren't saying that before, and I don't think the Bible has been significantly revised in the last twenty years.

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7 minutes ago, Millaise said:

DUP support was important to the Tory governments in the 1990s. David Trimble was frequently appearing alongside the PM, and at Tory party conferences. It's funny that now they have become labelled as crazies, because the media weren't saying that before, and I don't think the Bible has been significantly revised in the last twenty years.

David Trimble was not in the DUP.

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44 minutes ago, Richmond said:

Why is Parliment no longer morally bound by the referendum result? I though both Labour and Tory had Brexiting as part of their manifesto and combined took what 80% of the vote. 

I think Theresa May panicked. She knew, she throws away once a life opportunity and try to sorted out quickly.

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22 minutes ago, White Craw said:

David Trimble was not in the DUP.

Correct- Back then David Trimble led the Ulster Unionist (previously the Official Unionist) Party and they were then more moderate and they were the main Unionist voice. The Reverend Ian Paisley led the DUP which is more religious. The DUP have overtaken the UUP for their side same as for the Irish side Sinn Fein have overtaken the more moderate SDLP. Hope we find this deal with the Conservatives does not make everyone here retreat back into their own sides again- that would mean more division because that led to  civil war/The Troubles. 

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2 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Well, no offence, but that's just your natural disposition. The world, ultimately, changes. It won't be the same place in 10 years time. However there is one thing that is certain to stay the same, certain characters will continue to say that the past was always better and everything has become so much worse. Repeat ad infinitum.

So, I still dispute your implication that any youth should be able to see what a "dreadful job" Labour did. In the context that you made your comment, I agree with @pig if you blame the youth for falling for political promises, then you can blame inexperience. Why do the old continue to vote for the Tories?

Certainly does change - the world now for the young is a borderless internet a kind of libertarian dream : not that 20C world of physical border wars, where travel was far more exotic. Brexit almost literally does not compute.

If you peruse the RW taboids, 'getting old' means expressing what you were too foolish or shy to express/think when you were young. Funnily enough, not very well thought through stuff.

However as the internet starts to be taken over or parcelled up by corporates, militarised info, terrorists even, that libertarian experiment is turning into a nightmare. Looking at the world through Facebook specs looks ever more foolish. Not to say that helps the case for Brexit  - shrinking fractured uncooperating governments will render their populations they serve ever more helpless in the face of undemocratic forces.

I'm not a fan of Corbyn, if he got in power would be amazed if he achieved half of what he promised and would expect some sort of mess - but despite all that he seems a wiser choice than May and what she represents.

 

Edited by pig

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1 hour ago, Richmond said:

Why is Parliment no longer morally bound by the referendum result? I though both Labour and Tory had Brexiting as part of their manifesto and combined took what 80% of the vote. 

The referendum result is now history, the electoral base has now changed significantly, in large part due to Labour's direct appeal to the youth vote. MPs now owe the seats and allegiance to the current electorate, 3m of which are new young and presumably mainly Remain voters.

May tried to get a mandate for a hard Brexit and failed, anything else is not really a Brexit anyway.

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30 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

The referendum result is now history, the electoral base has now changed significantly, in large part due to Labour's direct appeal to the youth vote. MPs now owe the seats and allegiance to the current electorate, 3m of which are new young and presumably mainly Remain voters.

May tried to get a mandate for a hard Brexit and failed, anything else is not really a Brexit anyway.

Brexit mortuus est, et ut diu manere mortuus est

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7 hours ago, ZeroSumGame said:

So as above, EFTA membership to be (re)applied for. 55-60% membership of the EU coming up.

Meanwhile, here's Theresa's revised BREXIT promise.

Surprised? No of course not.

 

Ruth Davidson planning Scottish Tory breakaway as she challenges Theresa May's Brexit plan  Telegraph  No paywall apparently.

EEA membership is 25% of the EU acquis...

Edited by Dave Beans

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38 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

The referendum result is now history, the electoral base has now changed significantly, in large part due to Labour's direct appeal to the youth vote. MPs now owe the seats and allegiance to the current electorate, 3m of which are new young and presumably mainly Remain voters.

May tried to get a mandate for a hard Brexit and failed, anything else is not really a Brexit anyway.

Although I don't disagree, there is no mandate for a hard Brexit, the problem with inferring too much from a GE is that it is a mix of issues. This doesn't, to my mind, mean that people don't won't hard Brexit. Rather it means that on balance people preferred one parties stance on a range of issues over another. Hard Brexit may have been the key factor, or it may have played no role. A non-hard Brexit party didn't win so I don't see how anyone can conclusively say hard Brexit is dead.

By this logic, 80% of voters agree we should leave the EU. So do we now have clear cut view, leave the EU but don't hard Brexit?  Is this the new mandate? Staying in the EU is also dead then.

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12 minutes ago, Richmond said:

Although I don't disagree, there is no mandate for a hard Brexit, the problem with inferring too much from a GE is that it is a mix of issues. This doesn't, to my mind, mean that people don't won't hard Brexit. Rather it means that on balance people preferred one parties stance on a range of issues over another. Hard Brexit may have been the key factor, or it may have played no role. A non-hard Brexit party didn't win so I don't see how anyone can conclusively say hard Brexit is dead.

By this logic, 80% of voters agree we should leave the EU. So do we now have clear cut view, leave the EU but don't hard Brexit?  Is this the new mandate? Staying in the EU is also dead then.

It's dead because it's undeliverable.

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27 minutes ago, Byron said:

Little known election fact.

LABOUR LOST

Try telling that to the poor Tory snowflakes.

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20 minutes ago, Richmond said:

Although I don't disagree, there is no mandate for a hard Brexit, the problem with inferring too much from a GE is that it is a mix of issues. This doesn't, to my mind, mean that people don't won't hard Brexit. Rather it means that on balance people preferred one parties stance on a range of issues over another. Hard Brexit may have been the key factor, or it may have played no role. A non-hard Brexit party didn't win so I don't see how anyone can conclusively say hard Brexit is dead.

By this logic, 80% of voters agree we should leave the EU. So do we now have clear cut view, leave the EU but don't hard Brexit?  Is this the new mandate? Staying in the EU is also dead then.

Yes, staying in the EU is dead, unless we mysteriously reverse A50...and even then its not cut & dry...

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2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

It's dead because it's undeliverable.

But we're going to go through the process - the proof will be in the pudding.

There can be no other reason for calling this election other than concern over Brexits form and viability (forget that Brexit mean Brexit *********!) - it was an utterly ridiculous time to call an election and May herself didn't take the general manifesto seriously.

 

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19 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

It's dead because it's undeliverable.

I will deliver it. For meh - £1 million. Job done. 

Easy. 

Whether it works or not is not important. The point is you state it cannot be delivered.

This is more histrionics.

Please calm down.

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3 hours ago, Richmond said:

Why is Parliment no longer morally bound by the referendum result? I though both Labour and Tory had Brexiting as part of their manifesto and combined took what 80% of the vote. 

I can't find a pledge to leave the EU in the Labour party manifesto.

The Conservatives apparently did, however by failing to get a majority their manifesto is useless, they cannot enforce it in the Lords or Commons.

 

1 hour ago, Richmond said:

A non-hard Brexit party didn't win so I don't see how anyone can conclusively say hard Brexit is dead.

The Scottish Party is technically separate and they are against hard Brexit. Thats Mays working majority gone.

I can see Corbyn becoming Prime Minister in the very near future, the deal with DUP is pointless.

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38 minutes ago, ccc said:

I will deliver it. For meh - £1 million. Job done. 

Easy. 

Whether it works or not is not important. The point is you state it cannot be delivered.

This is more histrionics.

Please calm down.

You are on a histrionic mission lol!

You'd best avoid reading what David Davis apparently thinks then...

 

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13 minutes ago, ccc said:

I will deliver it. For meh - £1 million. Job done. 

Easy. 

Whether it works or not is not important. The point is you state it cannot be delivered.

This is more histrionics.

Please calm down.

 it's quite simple really, a hard Brexit will not get through the new Parliament so it's undeliverable. 

Not sure why you think realising this amounts to histrionics, perhaps it's time to have another look at to dictionary

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

It's dead because it's undeliverable.

I think you'll find it's delivered already.

Notice that the UK is leaving has been issued and accepted by the EU. We are leaving at the end of March 2019 unless that is withdrawn or reversed in some way.

Between now and then we will presumably try and cobble together some sort of deal on trade, FOM and everything else. Should we fail, we're still leaving, and that I would suggest, is the hardest of hardest Brexits.

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  • 399 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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