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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.


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29 minutes ago, pig said:

No you said "not seeking to reverse Brexit in any way".

Politics won't have 'settled down' until that kind of fanatical drivel has been jettisoned and we start making democratic decisions in Britains interest.

At what point will it be in our interest to follow rules without any say, or to rejoin on terms that mean joining the Euro?

Edited by thecrashingisles
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2 hours ago, yelims said:

Wales is on path to austerity after EU funds cut, says minister

 

London has so far failed to replace aid lost because of Brexit, says Welsh government

 

Wales is heading towards a new era of austerity after losing £375m a year in EU economic aid because of Brexit, the nation’s economy minister has said.

 

Vaughan Gething told the Financial Times that while much funding from Brussels would end this financial year following the UK’s departure from the EU, the government in London had yet to allocate replacement support as promised.

 

https://amp.ft.com/content/56b8c767-0b79-4221-8c33-a10a4705224e?__twitter_impression=true

Sadly if you went around Snowdonia or Brecon ( especially nr Merthyr) it was EU funding sign next to wall to wall Leave EU posters. They interviewed some Welsh folk who thought they could still retire to Spain after the vote and a woman who quite literally voted her fish export business virtually out of existence ( C4 followed her from enthusiastic Brexiteer to 'betrayed' but thought just bad negotiator)

 

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10 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

It's called English.

Clearly not terminal but voluntarily creating a 6-8% loss of GDP, the equivalent of a major financial "crash" would commonly be described as thrashing the economy. 

Well that's just pedantry in the extreme. A train wreck sounds pretty terminal, presumably you know what wreck means. I heard enough dire predictions (is that an ok word to use) from Remainers to know that the gist of my point was fair. Yes folks this really is what you can end up arguing about on the internet.

Edited by simon99
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23 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

@Confusion of VIsjust for context you may be wasting an evening here. Just seen you are having a debate with Simon and in another thread he was as good as saying Farage has some good ideas and the RNLI are manufacturing a row with him.

Don't think its gonna be rational or balanced

 

Haha, pathetic. I didn't say that. Nice try. With each of your posts you demonstrate the points I make so I suppose I should be grateful for that. Cheers.

Edited by simon99
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8 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

At what point will it be in our interest to follow rules without any say, or to rejoin on terms that mean joining the Euro?

We do with the US just to throw in the same fact I have been explaining for god knows how long.

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1 minute ago, simon99 said:

Well that's just pedantry in the extreme. A train wreck sounds pretty terminal, presumably you know what wreck means.

I know how it is commonly used in English 

Quote

 Trainwreck: 

A disastrous situation, occurrence, or process: e.g. His football career has been a train wreck.

 A total failure e.g. This project is a trainwreck.

Seems a pretty good description of Brexit. 

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16 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I know how it is commonly used in English 

Seems a pretty good description of Brexit. 

Yes, well thanks for demonstrating my point anyway.

So me saying that Remainers made "terminal" economic predictions was just making things up, but you yourself have now used the terms "train wreck", "trashing" and now we can add "total failure" and "disastrous". Brilliant, but embarrassing for you, makes me wonder who you think you're fooling, but keep it up. 

Edited by simon99
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16 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

You had a point?

Yes that "terminal" was fair description of the economic predictions, and that your claim I was making it up didn't hold any water,  as you've demonstrated by using similar terms yourself. I've seen all these tactics before BTW, I'll keep posting when I want, so hard luck. That's enough for me tonight though, this trivial point isn't worth the effort. 

Edited by simon99
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58 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

At what point will it be in our interest to follow rules without any say, or to rejoin on terms that mean joining the Euro?

You think Brexit could get that idiotic ?

I'm not thinking that far ahead but on the current trajectory I guess thats quite possible.

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19 minutes ago, pig said:

You think Brexit could get that idiotic ?

I'm not thinking that far ahead but on the current trajectory I guess thats quite possible.

I'm just positing an alternative to my suggestion that we will have 'moved on' when we have an election where all the main parties have platforms that are 'pro-Brexit', for want of a better formulation. At the moment a lot of people seem to think that Labour will seek a 'closer relationship', defined as something like joining the EEA.

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Blame for Brexit problem sits squarely with Westminster's lies

It is the UK who left the club, not the other way round. The rules were and are clear and if I left my golf club, for example, I wouldn’t expect the same terms if I wanted to play as a non-member.

The Europeans have many faults I am sure, but the blame for our Brexit problems sits squarely with Westminster and the lies they told to the British public during the referendum campaign in 2016. Simple as that.

I READ Iain Macwhirter’s article (“Good Friday Agreement will be the first casualty of NI trade war”, July 25) with great interest. I recall him saying that “this [Brexit] is a very British sort of self-harm”.

What I took from it is that he seems to think that the responsibility for this lies with the Europeans rather than the Brits –intransigence, not playing with a straight bat, playing awkward and so on.

heraldscotland

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8 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

I'm just positing an alternative to my suggestion that we will have 'moved on' when we have an election where all the main parties have platforms that are 'pro-Brexit', for want of a better formulation. At the moment a lot of people seem to think that Labour will seek a 'closer relationship', defined as something like joining the EEA.

Thats not an 'alternative'  - that will be the result if your sort of cultish Brexit politics carries on its current trajectory.

If the country seeks a better relationship with Europe it will vote for the party thats best placed to get us there. Simples.

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12 minutes ago, pig said:

Thats not an 'alternative'  - that will be the result if your sort of cultish Brexit politics carries on its current trajectory.

If the country seeks a better relationship with Europe it will vote for the party thats best placed to get us there. Simples.

The question is how you define a better relationship. If it's a variant of being subservient to the EU institutions from the outside then I think it's a non-starter politically. The only intellectually coherent way to reverse Brexit, if that's what people want, is to rejoin fully without any opt outs.

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12 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

The question is how you define a better relationship. If it's a variant of being subservient to the EU institutions from the outside then I think it's a non-starter politically. The only intellectually coherent way to reverse Brexit, if that's what people want, is to rejoin fully without any opt outs.

Well booting out the neo-trumpian idiots currently in charge will help enormously. An improvement in  intellectual coherence would also be great, but I'm not going to hold my breath for that lol. If you think the British will stay subservient to your castles in the air you really don't know this country very well :)

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10 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Ironically the forecast O'Brian was referring to turned out to be far too optimistic.

 

More good news for the uk economy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-58029042

also overseas student numbers growing strongly - you heard it here first. This should add about £10bn a year or so the U.K. economy in the next few years. Especially once we have replaced those lose among Erasmus students with Indians and Chinese students paying £25k per year.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/demand-place-university-rise-oxford-cambridge-a-level-results-day-p3fvrctcb

the EU cards were never as good as they said in this, the U.K. will be fine. 
I mentioned Robert Toombs' book on Brexit earlier, A rare academic pro Brexit book. He says in it that that the day before the vote he had a remainer Nobel  winning economist round for dinner (as Cambridge dons do...) he asked him about the effect of Brexit on the economy and the guy said "the U.K. would be fine after a readjustment buts that's not the point". The next day he went out and voted leave. 
that was the point and the power of project fear, without it the vote would have been ever grester for leave.

Edited by debtlessmanc
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16 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

 

Yep, there's just one example, cheers for that. Confusion of VIs would rather focus on minute and trivial details of my posts, such as the semantics of a particular word, and pretend I'm making stuff up, but then posts things which just show himself up - it's pure comedy. It's all designed to rile and confuse to put you off challenging them, along with his mate Staffknot who posted that I'd said something I hadn't, again all standard left tactics to discredit. It doesn't work on me though.

Edited by simon99
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31 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

More good news for the uk economy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-58029042

also overseas student numbers growing strongly - you heard it here first. This should add about £10bn a year or so the U.K. economy in the next few years. Especially once we have replaced those lose among Erasmus students with Indians and Chinese students paying £25k per year.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/demand-place-university-rise-oxford-cambridge-a-level-results-day-p3fvrctcb

the EU cards were never as good as they said in this, the U.K. will be fine. 
I mentioned Robert Toombs' book on Brexit earlier, A rare academic pro Brexit book. He says in it that that the day before the vote he had a remainer Nobel  winning economist round for dinner (as Cambridge dons do...) he asked him about the effect of Brexit on the economy and the guy said "the U.K. would be fine after a readjustment buts that's not the point". The next day he went out and voted leave. 
that was the point and the power of project fear, without it the vote would have been ever grester for leave.

Care to explain why these students from India/China could not come to study while being an Eu member?

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20 hours ago, yelims said:

Care to explain why these students from India/China could not come to study while being an Eu member?

There was no profit educating EU students there is now, they are on the same level as the Chinese or Indian students. They (EU) are of course not coming now in the same numbers, but that is more that made up by the increase in the overseas ones. 

HE is one area of the economy with the greatest difference between EU countries and the U.K. the continent generally runs HE as a branch of the civil service. This has several effects. Firstly the pay in most of the EU is very poor (certainly the southern states) secondly there is sadly quite a lot of nepotism/cronyism around in some countries meaning some people are not well qualified for the job. It has been quite clear for decades that the U.Ks US model is much better funded and merit based. It has been pulling in the best academics from the world for long time and that is reflected in the rankings. 
 

 

Edited by debtlessmanc
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Once again (since you avoided answering the bloody obvious question) what changed now after brexit that could not have been done if the uk remained?

It seems these students are coming despite Brexit while you want to equate it to being a Brexit positive 

If anything this is a negative as you could have remained in Eu and have both Eu students and row students bringing in money, except now you are wishing one group replaces the loss of the other and trying to paint it as a positive 

It amazes me the lengths as to what seem to be intelligent people go to try to scrounge a win from what seems to be a disaster deliberately enacted without a plan 

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8 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

More good news for the uk economy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-58029042

also overseas student numbers growing strongly - you heard it here first. This should add about £10bn a year or so the U.K. economy in the next few years. Especially once we have replaced those lose among Erasmus students with Indians and Chinese students paying £25k per year.

Both sides can role out long lists of good news, I doubt the boost to education income will offset just the loss of Tesla's European HQ, research facilities and car/battery production site to Berlin.

8 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

The next day he went out and voted leave. that was the point and the power of project fear, without it the vote would have been ever grester for leave.

"Project fear" (or if we believe the OBR project reality) had little effect as it was unable to compete with the undeliverable "have cake and eat it" Brexit promised to win the referendum. 

8 hours ago, simon99 said:

Yep, there's just one example, cheers for that. Confusion of VIs would rather focus on minute and trivial details of my posts, such as the semantics of a particular word, and pretend I'm making stuff up, but then posts things which just show himself up - it's pure comedy. It's all designed to rile and confuse to put you off challenging them, along with his mate Staffknot who posted that I'd said something I hadn't, again all standard left tactics to discredit. It doesn't work on me though.

Do you really think your biased and superficial views have not been expressed many times previously in this +6000 page thread. Every few months someone like you pops up gives us the benefit of their Daily Express/Mail viewpoint for a few weeks and then disappears.

If you want people to engage with you, you will have to start with a reasoned argument or at least say something new. 

As for me being a leftie, that really is comedy 

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