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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.


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2 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

"That means I was right by coincidence."

You are still simply assuming that you were right for the exactly same reasons. Where is your evidence that Brexit has led to a loss of global power, or that having regulatory autonomy is a cost rather than a benefit?

Were you clever, but the teachers did not realise it?

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2 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

"That means I was right by coincidence."

You are still simply assuming that you were right for the exactly same reasons. Where is your evidence that Brexit has led to a loss of global power, or that having regulatory autonomy is a cost rather than a benefit?

Can we stay in the real world, not some Brexit fantasy? 

There is no doubt the UK global position is weaker.  The UK has less influence what happens in the EU as it is no longer a member. Other countries are going to priorities the EU over the UK as the UK is a smaller player.  This is already happening, the US position regarding NI is an example.

The regulatory autonomy is burden for the business as they have to comply with different standards if they want to export to the EU. There is going to be less choice for consumers and imported goods will be more expensive since the foreign manufactures will have to comply with the UK standards if they want to export to the UK. Some will simply not bother to do this.  This hasn't happened yet. The EU standards are still valid in the UK until the end of 2021.

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4 minutes ago, slawek said:

Can we stay in the real world, not some Brexit fantasy? 

There is no doubt the UK global position is weaker.  The UK has less influence what happens in the EU as it is no longer a member. Other countries are going to priorities the EU over the UK as the UK is a smaller player.  This is already happening, the US position regarding NI is an example.

The regulatory autonomy is burden for the business as they have to comply with different standards if they want to export to the EU. There is going to be less choice for consumers and imported goods will be more expensive since the foreign manufactures will have to comply with the UK standards if they want to export to the UK. Some will simply not bother to do this.  This hasn't happened yet. The EU standards are still valid in the UK until the end of 2021.

Well the fact that Ireland with help of EU has ran circles around these great Brexit negotiators should tell you about position Brexit Britain finds itself in.

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26 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

This bizarre ad hominem line of questioning strikes me as so much projection.

You are very prone to such attacks so while it is a case of pot well and truly calling kettle black I do ask you and @Bob8 stay on track please.

Or is Institute of Poor Little Germany Studies and all the insinuations of mental deficiency some how you furthering the debate Mr Isles?

Even though I think you are on fantasy Brexit island shall we agree to keep it civil

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3 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

Where is your evidence that Brexit has led to a loss of global power, or that having regulatory autonomy is a cost rather than a benefit

Well it caused half The City to spend a fortune on planning & switch clearing services and have a drama planning around Irish securities, its added a cost overhead to exports and imports, delays and also hauliers having to pay more to recruit.

Oh and top of the list of waning power the two bright shining post-Brexit deals of US & Oz we've been told to whistle.

If you also look at influence in Europe we basically have gone from being able to form coalitions for action with EU on issues, to uniting the other nations into thinking we are Europe's mischief maker and not to be trusted.

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11 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

You are very prone to such attacks so while it is a case of pot well and truly calling kettle black I do ask you and @Bob8 stay on track please.

Or is Institute of Poor Little Germany Studies and all the insinuations of mental deficiency some how you furthering the debate Mr Isles?

Even though I think you are on fantasy Brexit island shall we agree to keep it civil

A couple of years ago, I would have agreed.

I am from a scientific background, which gave me the stereotypical caveats etc. But, y'know, it is based on th eassumption we know we are emotional creatures trying to reach rational conclusions. I find many of the most certain people believe they are inherently rational and think convictions are reason.

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21 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

A couple of years ago, I would have agreed.

I am from a scientific background, which gave me the stereotypical caveats etc. But, y'know, it is based on th eassumption we know we are emotional creatures trying to reach rational conclusions. I find many of the most certain people believe they are inherently rational and think convictions are reason.

Fair dos I was just trying to be even handed as I called him out on it.

I'm not the forum police and he blatantly ignored it / continued them so petard hoist away

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1 hour ago, Bob8 said:

A couple of years ago, I would have agreed.

I am from a scientific background, which gave me the stereotypical caveats etc. But, y'know, it is based on th eassumption we know we are emotional creatures trying to reach rational conclusions. I find many of the most certain people believe they are inherently rational and think convictions are reason.

There's a tendency for some people to see Brexit as a question with a right and a wrong answer and to seek validation for having been 'right', even if their judgment is couched as a product of their social position.

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8 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

There's a tendency for some people to see Brexit as a question with a right and a wrong answer and to seek validation for having been 'right', even if their judgment is couched as a product of their social position.

Hey, guess what everyone!

@thecrashingisles thinks he is the one who understands nuance!

:D

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7 hours ago, yelims said:

Well yes for over 5 years now Brexiteers made predictions and exact opposite happened because they are donkeys 

I do not see it like that. The British negotiators are in the position of having a weaker hand than Europe, and there is no deal they could come up with that would satisfy a domestic audience. It is not a symptom of incompetence necessarily.

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Just now, Bob8 said:

I do not see it like that. The British negotiators are in the position of having a weaker hand than Europe, and there is no deal they could come up with that would satisfy a domestic audience. It is not a symptom of incompetence necessarily.

Right being in a humiliating position of calling a deal they themselves negotiated, campaigned for, signed, and admitted to not have read (yet proclaimed as best thing since sliced bread) is not incompetence?

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2 minutes ago, yelims said:

Right being in a humiliating position of calling a deal they themselves negotiated, campaigned for, signed, and admitted to not have read (yet proclaimed as best thing since sliced bread) is not incompetence?

Which is because it was a realitistic deal. That is not politically acceptable.

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1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

Which is because it was a realitistic deal. That is not politically acceptable.

Yet it was politically accepted and a democratic mandate gathered for from the electorate 

Illustrate why it is politically acceptable to go against the will of the people from not so long ago.

Should the Will of the people in the Brexit referendum also then should have been ignored?

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58 minutes ago, yelims said:

Yet it was politically accepted and a democratic mandate gathered for from the electorate 

Illustrate why it is politically acceptable to go against the will of the people from not so long ago.

Should the Will of the people in the Brexit referendum also then should have been ignored?

It has to keep the bulk of Tory support happy.

19 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

To paraphrase Joni Mitchell, “I’ve looked at Brexit from both sides now.” You haven’t.

And, in both cases you were blinkered. And a absolutist.

"Clearly, this is s rubbish starting point, but we can look at the best realitistic outcome", the the normal position for a grown-up. Not your vagaries and stupidity as phiosophy.

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6 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

It has to keep the bulk of Tory support happy.

And, in both cases you were blinkered. And a absolutist.

"Clearly, this is s rubbish starting point, but we can look at the best realitistic outcome", the the normal position for a grown-up. Not your vagaries and stupidity as phiosophy.

You’ve spent pages repeating mantras about four-sided triangles and now you call me the blinkered absolutist? Try taking off your EU goggles and you might just see a world of possibility and modernity.

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5 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

You’ve spent pages repeating mantras about four-sided triangles and now you call me the blinkered absolutist? Try taking off your EU goggles and you might just see a world of possibility and modernity.

I have been asking you for what real world thing you would actually like. You know that that will involve compromise, so you cannot do it.

In reality, we have to drop one of the three below. Choose one!
- Leaving the SU/CM
- Maintaining the GFA
- Maintaining the integrity of the UK

Come on! You can do this!
:D

Pretending that you can have three is stupid and it has already been explained why in Noddy language.

 

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4 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I have been asking you for what real world thing you would actually like. You know that that will involve compromise, so you cannot do it.

In reality, we have to drop one of the three below. Choose one!
- Leaving the SU/CM
- Maintaining the GFA
- Maintaining the integrity of the UK

Come on! You can do this!
:D

Pretending that you can have three is stupid and it has already been explained why in Noddy language.

Maintaining the GFA means maintaining the integrity of the UK unless and until the people of both parts of Ireland say otherwise. They have not done so.

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6 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Maintaining the GFA means maintaining the integrity of the UK unless and until the people of both parts of Ireland say otherwise. They have not done so.

Hooray!

Wuhu!

Easy, peasy!

We stay in the SM and CU and we can keep the status quo!

@yelims, @Staffsknot, @14stFlyer, our man has finally answered a question! Open border with Ireland, no need to break the GFA or integrity of the UK!

Well done, Sir! I am pround of you.

 

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10 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Maintaining the GFA means maintaining the integrity of the UK unless and until the people of both parts of Ireland say otherwise. They have not done so.

Just assure me... Having a border in the Irish sea is not really with the GFA, but I was giving you a certain leeway. You were not picking on that were you?

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2 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Hooray!

Wuhu!

Easy, peasy!

We stay in the SM and CU and we can keep the status quo!

@yelims, @Staffsknot, @14stFlyer, our man has finally answered a question! Open border with Ireland, no need to break the GFA or integrity of the UK!

Well done, Sir! I am pround of you.

 

The status quo is for us not to be in the SM and CU. Do keep up.

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