Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.


Recommended Posts

10 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

..even if its flawed?  Such as the requirement on having a veterinary inspection for a tin of Tuna..

Irrelevant to this discussion if you want the path of least resistence and disruption it is that. We are already closely aligned we just have to stay that way.

By vet cert do you mean EHC which can be stamped by local authority registerrd inspectors not just vets. Also which is similar to our requirement for a tin of tuna coming from abroad where we expe t signed documentation from a health official for customs clearance.

However this is irrelevany as the Brexiteers treat Brexit like a divorce and have to be seen to be winning. Practical steps be damned

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

Irrelevant to this discussion if you want the path of least resistence and disruption it is that. We are already closely aligned we just have to stay that way.

By vet cert do you mean EHC which can be stamped by local authority registerrd inspectors not just vets. Also which is similar to our requirement for a tin of tuna coming from abroad where we expe t signed documentation from a health official for customs clearance.

However this is irrelevany as the Brexiteers treat Brexit like a divorce and have to be seen to be winning. Practical steps be damned

https://ec.europa.eu/food/animals/veterinary-border-control_en

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55887043

Just because its easy, it doesn't mean its a must.  I thought we must stay in the single market at all costs, however, it seems that its rules like this, as well exploitation in several markets, including the haulage industry, has put me off slightly..

Edited by Dave Beans
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, IMHAL said:

So you are claiming that the UK is capable of somehow holding the EU to ransom? That if it does not get what it wants (which would blow a hole in the SM) then ......it will blow a hole in the SM. Does that not strike you as strange logic? This is pure unadulterated desperation and delusional.

The EU will protect the SM at ANY cost... as it has a right to, that is understandable. It is pure folly to think otherwise.

We are in the stage of the divorce where UK is ringing up the EU and shouting I hate you at 2am then expecting to keep all the vinyl and the inherited silverware from the late mother-in-law.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Dave Beans said:

https://ec.europa.eu/food/horizontal-topics/official-controls-and-enforcement/official-controls-imported-products_en

Just because its easy, it doesn't mean its a must.  I thought we must stay in the single market at all costs, however, it seems that its rules like this, as well exploitation in several markets, including the haulage industry, has put me off slightly..

Dave the question was least resistence. Now you're changing the question.

Practical solution that solves every issue of the impasse but only stumbling block is it requires UK to appear to give something and politically makes Brexit appear pointless. Given the politicians ( hello Gove) went on record and on national TV and claimed there would be no drop in standards and no divergence as late as last year then why is it unthinkable now. Answer is they wouldn't appear to have won which is what matters

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

We are in the stage of the divorce where UK is ringing up the EU and shouting I hate you at 2am then expecting to keep all the vinyl and the inherited silverware from the late mother-in-law.

A good friend said to me that if you are skiing off piste...you had better have a good plan. We are skiing off piste and the man in charge has no plan, had no plan and there is no plan to be had. Now we have the numpties applying ridiculous logic akin to pulling our selves up with our own bootstraps. At some point, when that logic fails, an new epiphany will prevail. Until then we have to suffer this continuing nonesense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

A good friend said to me that if you are skiing off piste...you had better have a good plan. We are skiing off piste and the man in charge has no plan, had no plan and there is no plan to be had. Now we have the numpties applying ridiculous logic akin to pulling our selves up with our own bootstraps. At some point, when that logic fails, an new epiphany will prevail. Until then we have to suffer this continuing nonesense.

Its the - we need to leave the EU as they are pureist, dogmatic, bureaucratic, inflexible rules sticklers.

Outside EU - we didn't expect you to be so purist, dogmatic and sticklers to rules, why all the paperwork...

When buccaneering meets buckaroo

Edited by Staffsknot
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

Its the - we need to leave the EU as they are pureist, dogmatic, bureaucratic, inflexible rules sticklers.

Outside EU - we didn't expect you to be so purist, dogmatic and sticklers to rules, why all the paperwork...

I know. It's pure f'in stupid. Had to put up with this shite illogical logic for years. Doesn't get any better.

Edited by IMHAL
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

Dave the question was least resistence. Now you're changing the question.

Practical solution that solves every issue of the impasse but only stumbling block is it requires UK to appear to give something and politically makes Brexit appear pointless. Given the politicians ( hello Gove) went on record and on national TV and claimed there would be no drop in standards and no divergence as late as last year then why is it unthinkable now. Answer is they wouldn't appear to have won which is what matters

....the path of least resistance would mean that nothing would change.. Walking a slightly different path means that you can look at a situation in a completely different way..

 There is no reason, for instance, that those documents can't be digitised, and put through a Single Window (which will happen over time)..

http://www.wcoomd.org/-/media/wco/public/global/pdf/topics/facilitation/instruments-and-tools/tools/single-window/compendium/swcompendiumvol1parti.pdf

...although, at the moment at least, its just another added non-tariff barrier hurdle to jump..

Edited by Dave Beans
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

....the path of least resistance would mean that nothing would change.. Walking a slightly different path means that you can look at a situation in a completely different way..

 There is no reason, for instance, that those documents can't be digitised, and put through a Single Window (which will happen over time)..

http://www.wcoomd.org/-/media/wco/public/global/pdf/topics/facilitation/instruments-and-tools/tools/single-window/compendium/swcompendiumvol1parti.pdf

...although, at the moment at least, its just another added non-tariff barrier hurdle to jump..

And they can look at this stuff and make suggestions to the committee but what they can't do is charge off and shout eff you and think no comebacks. It takes two sides to agree, you don't get the EU to agree by starting a fight calling them knobs.

They signed up to this arrangement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

And they can look at this stuff and make suggestions to the committee but what they can't do is charge off and shout eff you and think no comebacks. It takes two sides to agree, you don't get the EU to agree by starting a fight calling them knobs.

They signed up to this arrangement.

In a way, seeing as the UK govt had no plan, its not surprising to see that this Boris govt are in an unholy mess over this, however, it is also right to challenge certain aspects of the SM..."ah, its done this way, and we just have to accept it"...Well, why is it done that way?  What are the alternatives?  Being outside allows us to work out what these systems do, and come up with better ways for trade facilitation to work..

We also are going to have to think past this govt, and Brexit isn't going to end.  So we going to have to learn how we adapt and move on, rather than regurgitating everything that has been said and done over the last five years..

Edited by Dave Beans
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, IMHAL said:

So you are claiming that the UK is capable of somehow holding the EU to ransom? That if it does not get what it wants (which would blow a hole in the SM) then ......it will blow a hole in the SM. Does that not strike you as strange logic? This is pure unadulterated desperation and delusional.

The EU will protect the SM at ANY cost... as it has a right to, that is understandable. It is pure folly to think otherwise.

I have a suspicious he could be Farage ...

 

"May 5, 2021

When on a private tour of a European Commission building in Brussels, Mr Barnier asks Mr Farage what he wants from Brexit, and he replies: "Mr Barnier, after Brexit, the EU will no longer exist."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

Cancelling the FTA with the UK doesn't actually solve the problem of maintaining the integrity of the customs union while upholding the GFA. Assume that they fail to coerce the UK into implementing an Irish sea border. What then?

EU will not renegotiate NI Protocol, Ursula von der Leyen says

Ursula von der Leyen is refusing Boris Johnson’s plea for the EU to renegotiate the post-Brexit agreement on Northern Ireland when he rang her urging her to reconsider.

Following their conversation, a No 10 spokesperson said the PM explained to Ms Von der Leyen that the Protocol was “operationally unsustainable” and insisted she engage with solutions put forward by the UK.

The EU Commission president tweeted: The EU will continue to be creative and flexible within the Protocol framework. But we will not renegotiate.

Independent

Edited by rollover
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

In a way, seeing as the UK govt had no plan, its not surprising to see that this Boris govt are in an unholy mess over this, however, it is also right to challenge certain aspects of the SM..."ah, its done this way, and we just have to accept it"...Well, why is it done that way?  What are the alternatives?  Being outside allows us to work out what these systems do, and come up with better ways for trade facilitation to work..

We also have to think past a govt that is devoid of any talent, and Brexit isn't going to end.  So we going to have to learn how we adapt and move on, rather than regurgitating everything that has been said and done over the last five years..

There are ways of challenging - as company cmdr my word was law to the subordinates. As plt cmdr word went for theirs. But I would explain to the 2nd Lts that if you pull that routine the Plt Sgt with all his experience will give you enough rope and watch you hang yourself with it, provided it doesn't endanger folk. They will do everything to the letter and no more. Bring them with you and they'll work for you not around you.

Shouting at the EU and making everything a challenge means no change.

Goodwill has evaporated and the EU will cling ever tighter to those rules as every attempt at change will just been seen as attempt at dishonesty, disruption and grandstanding.

You see from Brexiteer view if you push they'll bend. From the EU point of view Boris is in a hole of his own digging and they need a bloody good reason to offer a ladder let alone not turn on a hose.

Edited by Staffsknot
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

You need to look at what has actually happened to see that the EU lacks credibility on this. First they said they wouldn't ratify the TCA until the UK implemented the protocol and set a deadline, then they meekly ratified it anyway. Then they said the UK really, really should comply now, then they meekly agreed to extend the grace periods. The EU is constrained by the realities of the politics of Northern Ireland.

Taoiseach Micheal Martin has called on the UK Government to “reciprocate the generosity of spirit” shown by EU leaders on the Northern Ireland Protocol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

Wouldn't that be a WTO breach?  All third countries should be treated the same...

Nope

UK unilaterally withdraws from agreement 

UK starts racking up daily fines for breaching said agreement

While whole thing works itself through courts EU can slap whatever tarrifs it feels like on uk trade for breaching said trade agreement 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would anyone trust Brexit Britain again?

Just seven months after singing its praises, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is attempting to rewrite the Brexit deal he signed with the European Union.

EU officials have already rejected the UK call for a renegotiation, which trade experts say amounts to a brazen attempt to press the European Union to agree to demands that it already rejected during several rounds of talks.

Other countries watching the drama unfold will proceed with caution when it comes to dealing with the United Kingdom.

It's a risky move that will undermine Britain's credibility as a trustworthy trading partner at the very moment that the UK government is seeking to forge economic alliances far beyond Europe to justify its "global Britain" sales pitch for Brexit.

According to L. Alan Winters "It certainly does raise questions about the trustworthiness of this government," It could, weaken its negotiating position. Potential partners, such as New Zealand and other Pacific nations, may just insist on more robust ways to settle disputes in case the United Kingdom tried to backtrack on a deal.

CNN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, yelims said:

North-east businesses say they are still facing massive price hikes and huge delays as a result of Brexit red tape.

Issues include mounting paperwork, items taking weeks to clear customs and the cost of transport “three or four times” more expensive than before Brexit – if haulage firms are willing to carry goods across borders at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

In a way, seeing as the UK govt had no plan, its not surprising to see that this Boris govt are in an unholy mess over this, however, it is also right to challenge certain aspects of the SM..."ah, its done this way, and we just have to accept it"...Well, why is it done that way?  What are the alternatives?  Being outside allows us to work out what these systems do, and come up with better ways for trade facilitation to work..

We also are going to have to think past this govt, and Brexit isn't going to end.  So we going to have to learn how we adapt and move on, rather than regurgitating everything that has been said and done over the last five years..

The first step is to move on. Implement the agreement you signed, promoted to the public and got voted in on. In a few years, no-one would notice it.

Then we can build good will and perhaps work together to change things if it benefits both sides.

But that isn't how the UK will do it because they're not motivated by that. Their motivation is to enrage the voters so they continue to blame the EU for us being worse off. This is all purely domestic propaganda.

As predicted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dugsbody said:

The first step is to move on. Implement the agreement you signed, promoted to the public and got voted in on. In a few years, no-one would notice it.

Then we can build good will and perhaps work together to change things if it benefits both sides.

But that isn't how the UK will do it because they're not motivated by that. Their motivation is to enrage the voters so they continue to blame the EU for us being worse off. This is all purely domestic propaganda.

As predicted.

Paradoxically it is your own obsession with wanting to be vindicated for your vote in 2016 that prevents you from moving on and accepting the situation as it is now.

The UK and EU and its member states are just various political actors in a complex world. The EU doesn't have any superior legitimacy and we are not some kind of recalcitrant child that needs to mend its ways. Remainerism has become an endless cringe and it is pathetic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

Paradoxically it is your own obsession with wanting to be vindicated for your vote in 2016 that prevents you from moving on and accepting the situation as it is now.

The UK and EU and its member states are just various political actors in a complex world. The EU doesn't have any superior legitimacy and we are not some kind of recalcitrant child that needs to mend its ways. Remainerism has become an endless cringe and it is pathetic.

Amazing...and not a hint or irony.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

Paradoxically it is your own obsession with wanting to be vindicated for your vote in 2016 that prevents you from moving on and accepting the situation as it is now.

The UK and EU and its member states are just various political actors in a complex world. The EU doesn't have any superior legitimacy and we are not some kind of recalcitrant child that needs to mend its ways. Remainerism has become an endless cringe and it is pathetic.

I have to come back to this.

Surely 'accepting the situation as it is now' is getting on and implementing the deal that has been agreed, that has been voted in by the British public.

Paradoxically, remainers are calling for the unicorn that leavers voted in to be enacted. And not surprisingly, leavers are in a constant dodge to distance themselves fron what they have indeed voted in. That sounds very much like not accepting responsibility for their actions. Not unlike a recalcitrant child I'd say.

So what is it about remainers that you regard as 'not accepting the situation as it is now'? I'm happy for leavers to hang themselves after being given enough rope...you should be happy too given that that is what leavers voted for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

I have to come back to this.

Surely 'accepting the situation as it is now' is getting on and implementing the deal that has been agreed, that has been voted in by the British public.

Paradoxically, remainers are calling for the unicorn that leavers voted in to be enacted. And not surprisingly, leavers are in a constant dodge to distance themselves fron what they have indeed voted in. That sounds very much like not accepting responsibility for their actions. Not unlike a recalcitrant child I'd say.

So what is it about remainers that you regard as 'not accepting the situation as it is now'? I'm happy for leavers to hang themselves after being given enough rope...you should be happy too given that that is what leavers voted for.

No, the situation as it is now is that there is a conflict between the Good Friday Agreement and the protocol, and indeed the protocol itself is internally contradictory. Unionists are agitating against the protocol and there is a dispute between the UK and the EU about it.

This is just politics. It's life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.