Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[slawek]

1 hour ago, kzb said:

Even if true we aren't doing that.

It is true. You need to improve your comprehension skills.

They say they won't but their word has very little value. 

[slawek]

1 hour ago, thecrashingisles said:

Your example was that "changing the UK law to allow antibiotics would be a breach of the UK/EU FTA", but the EU ban is a total sham anyway, so perhaps the UK should sue the EU.

https://www.asmscience.org/content/journal/microbe/10.1128/microbe.6.274.1

 

Are you ok?

There is a huge difference between the law and the compliance with the law. You can't sue the parliament for someone breaking the law they made.

[thecrashingisles]

3 minutes ago, slawek said:

Are you ok?

There is a huge difference between the law and the compliance with the law. You can't sue the parliament for someone breaking the law they made.

So we should just accept that the EU is a zone where the rule of law isn't respected. Ok then, but it goes against the narrative you promote.

[yelims]

Just now, thecrashingisles said:

So we should just accept that the EU is a zone where the rule of law isn't respected. Ok then, but it goes against the narrative you promote.

Eh points at Boris agreeing to a treaty (law) in what he called best deal ever and not adhering to it

if he doesn’t adhere to it he will 1. Be dragged through courts and 2. EU retaliate by selectively ignoring bits that don’t suit them like allowing UK free trade

to quote yourself what can you do then? Invade?

 

hahaha Tories got themselves into quite a pickle 

[slawek]

3 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

So we should just accept that the EU is a zone where the rule of law isn't respected. Ok then, but it goes against the narrative you promote.

In no place everyone follows the law. Where did I say otherwise?  

[thecrashingisles]

Humiliation for the European Commission's lawyers.

 

[thecrashingisles]

Europe has done a number on the Irish corporate tax rate

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/europe-has-done-a-number-on-the-irish-corporate-tax-rate-1.4596332

[dugsbody]

6 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Europe has done a number on the Irish corporate tax rate

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/europe-has-done-a-number-on-the-irish-corporate-tax-rate-1.4596332

Sounds like a supranational agreement imposing on national sovereignty. I thought brexiters were against this sort of thing?

[kzb]

2 hours ago, slawek said:

It is true. You need to improve your comprehension skills.

They say they won't but their word has very little value. 

Er... hang on, they say they won't, and I am the one who needs to improve my comprehension skills?

In any case, this discussion was not about this.  The argument is whether the EU is entitled to impose tariffs on UK imports simply because we buy goods from elsewhere and by so doing, displace imports from the EU.

At this stage we are not even talking about standards (that might come later).  For the moment, we are asking if the EU can impose tariffs for the sole reason that we replace some EU imports with cheaper imports from elsewhere. 

That is the question, please answer that one before we move on to standards.

 

[kzb]

3 hours ago, slawek said:

Are you ok?

There is a huge difference between the law and the compliance with the law. You can't sue the parliament for someone breaking the law they made.

We can't sue but we can impose proportionate tariffs on beef imports from an EU country that misuses chemicals on its livestock in a way that breaches the terms of the agreement.

I think maybe we should do this, at least after we have Oz supplies secured.  It's obvious the EU is going to raise a case at every sniff of an opportunity to do so, so let's strike first.

[thecrashingisles]

Good speech from David Frost:

https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2021/06/lord-frosts-opening-speech-to-konigswinter-conference-june-17.html
 

It’s worth saying perhaps to our German friends that there is no longer any serious debate on the subject in Britain. No major political party advocates EU membership, and, while a proportion of the public may still regret Brexit, there is no energy behind a rejoin movement. Overwhelmingly we are now looking forward.

That matters. Those of us who became convinced, publicly or privately, in the years after 2010 of the need to leave the EU did so not because of some obsessional attraction to sovereignty. We did so because we believed EU membership had been detrimental to the UK, had sapped our energy and ability to solve problems for ourselves, and had stopped us making hard choices and clear decisions about how we wanted to run our country.

I think it’s worth making clear that this is not just a Brexit of the right. We’ve seen perhaps the most significant change in British politics for a generation – a profound shift towards Brexit, and the Conservative Party, from parts of the country which have traditionally leaned left.

Some are inclined, even now, to dismiss this as a cry of anger against “being left behind”. That is far too dismissive. What we have seen is a call for the country to be run in a different way, injecting new ideas into the political class, creating alternative possibilities, and crucially, holding politicians to account for different things, against different standards.

The point I want to make is that leaving the EU wasn’t the final goal – it was a doorway, a portal through which we had to pass, the beginning of a journey to national renewal and a repositioning of Britain on the world stage. I think it’s because people sense those possibilities that the mood in Britain is better than many thought it would be.

Edited June 18, 2021 by thecrashingisles

[kzb]

2 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Sounds like a supranational agreement imposing on national sovereignty. I thought brexiters were against this sort of thing?

We were discussing the Irish referenda only the other week.  

Basically the remainer argument was,

• they had a referendum and people voted No because they wanted sovereignty over taxation
• The EU then assured the Irish they would have sovereignty over taxation if they voted Yes
• Irish duly voted Yes on that basis. 
• So what was your problem, you were all demanding to know in your usual humble manner.

Well here it is.  The assurance meant nothing.  The Irish are about to lose sovereignty over taxation despite what they were told to get the second referendum over the line.  We knew they would.

 

 

[DarkHorseWaits-NoMore]

45 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Good speech from David Frost:

https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2021/06/lord-frosts-opening-speech-to-konigswinter-conference-june-17.html
 

It’s worth saying perhaps to our German friends that there is no longer any serious debate on the subject in Britain. No major political party advocates EU membership, and, while a proportion of the public may still regret Brexit, there is no energy behind a rejoin movement. Overwhelmingly we are now looking forward.

That matters. Those of us who became convinced, publicly or privately, in the years after 2010 of the need to leave the EU did so not because of some obsessional attraction to sovereignty. We did so because we believed EU membership had been detrimental to the UK, had sapped our energy and ability to solve problems for ourselves, and had stopped us making hard choices and clear decisions about how we wanted to run our country.

I think it’s worth making clear that this is not just a Brexit of the right. We’ve seen perhaps the most significant change in British politics for a generation – a profound shift towards Brexit, and the Conservative Party, from parts of the country which have traditionally leaned left.

Some are inclined, even now, to dismiss this as a cry of anger against “being left behind”. That is far too dismissive. What we have seen is a call for the country to be run in a different way, injecting new ideas into the political class, creating alternative possibilities, and crucially, holding politicians to account for different things, against different standards.

The point I want to make is that leaving the EU wasn’t the final goal – it was a doorway, a portal through which we had to pass, the beginning of a journey to national renewal and a repositioning of Britain on the world stage. I think it’s because people sense those possibilities that the mood in Britain is better than many thought it would be.

Reality denial, utter crap, piled on incompetence wraped in ignorance... aka a $hit sandwich for the end days of the UK union.

[jonb2]

34 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Good speech from David Frost:

https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2021/06/lord-frosts-opening-speech-to-konigswinter-conference-june-17.html
 

It’s worth saying perhaps to our German friends that there is no longer any serious debate on the subject in Britain. No major political party advocates EU membership, and, while a proportion of the public may still regret Brexit, there is no energy behind a rejoin movement. Overwhelmingly we are now looking forward.

That matters. Those of us who became convinced, publicly or privately, in the years after 2010 of the need to leave the EU did so not because of some obsessional attraction to sovereignty. We did so because we believed EU membership had been detrimental to the UK, had sapped our energy and ability to solve problems for ourselves, and had stopped us making hard choices and clear decisions about how we wanted to run our country.

I think it’s worth making clear that this is not just a Brexit of the right. We’ve seen perhaps the most significant change in British politics for a generation – a profound shift towards Brexit, and the Conservative Party, from parts of the country which have traditionally leaned left.

Some are inclined, even now, to dismiss this as a cry of anger against “being left behind”. That is far too dismissive. What we have seen is a call for the country to be run in a different way, injecting new ideas into the political class, creating alternative possibilities, and crucially, holding politicians to account for different things, against different standards.

The point I want to make is that leaving the EU wasn’t the final goal – it was a doorway, a portal through which we had to pass, the beginning of a journey to national renewal and a repositioning of Britain on the world stage. I think it’s because people sense those possibilities that the mood in Britain is better than many thought it would be.

OK 'Lord Frost'  - let's see the grand vision for Brexit we've been waiting for the last 5 years. Believe this tripe and you'll believe anything. Where's the fecking hope. Nothing, just a dark void of recycled sound-bite garbage. Making assumptions of the populace and their opinion like a comfort blanket.

It's empty words purely aimed t their diminishing fan-club. It's ******. This lot in Parliament can only do one thing  - and not terribly well - LIE !!! Oh, sorry, I am being unfair - two things - they are experts in self-enrichment.

On the world stage, the UK will be perceived as Turkey is now in ten years. It's what it deserves for being so stupid. All empires must pass.

[thecrashingisles]

4 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

OK 'Lord Frost'  - let's see the grand vision for Brexit we've been waiting for the last 5 years. Believe this tripe and you'll believe anything. Where's the fecking hope. Nothing, just a dark void of recycled sound-bite garbage. Making assumptions of the populace and their opinion like a comfort blanket.

It's empty words purely aimed t their diminishing fan-club. It's ******. This lot in Parliament can only do one thing  - and not terribly well - LIE !!! Oh, sorry, I am being unfair - two things - they are experts in self-enrichment.

On the world stage, the UK will be perceived as Turkey is now in ten years. It's what it deserves for being so stupid. All empires must pass.

Do you think the UK was stupid not to join the Euro?

[jonb2]

5 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Do you think the UK was stupid not to join the Euro?

I am not interested in that. I am only interested in the damage the so-called maggot leaders of this country are doing to it.

And with the consent and support of a blind, idiot minority.

If you were the same person as you were a year ago - you would know my stance and would not ask me about the EU.

[thecrashingisles]

Just now, jonb2 said:

I am not interested in that. I am only interested in the damage the so-called maggot leaders of this country are doing to it.

And with the consent and support of a blind, idiot minority.

If you were the same person as you were a year ago - you would know my stance and would not ask me about the EU.

Are you making a distinction between this government's general policies and their policy on Brexit?

[thecrashingisles]

Ireland is now asking the EU "respond with generosity" on extending grace periods.

 

[jonb2]

18 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Are you making a distinction between this government's general policies and their policy on Brexit?

Nope - everything they do is fuelled by a rocket fuel of ineptness and greed.

They seek the easy way out on everything they should do. And spend the rest of the time nurturing their ever-growing personal fortune prospectus. I reckon it's a time split of 5% on token governance - the remaining 95% looking for the next bung.

[erat_forte]

19 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Ireland is now asking the EU "respond with generosity" on extending grace periods.

 

Yes that is a sensible mature approach. Not to ramp up rhetoric, not to act unilaterally, not to break agreed treaties and commitments, but to seek for ways to act with generosity and mutual benefit within the law.

[onlooker]

3 minutes ago, erat_forte said:

Yes that is a sensible mature approach. Not to ramp up rhetoric, not to act unilaterally, not to break agreed treaties and commitments, but to seek for ways to act with generosity and mutual benefit within the law.

And to act with proportionality. Something the EU has not done over this issue.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/fifth-of-all-eu-border-checks-happening-in-northern-ireland-40404848.html

This is not acting with proportionality.

[yelims]

1 hour ago, kzb said:

We were discussing the Irish referenda only the other week.  

Basically the remainer argument was,

• they had a referendum and people voted No because they wanted sovereignty over taxation
• The EU then assured the Irish they would have sovereignty over taxation if they voted Yes
• Irish duly voted Yes on that basis. 
• So what was your problem, you were all demanding to know in your usual humble manner.

Well here it is.  The assurance meant nothing.  The Irish are about to lose sovereignty over taxation despite what they were told to get the second referendum over the line.  We knew they would.

 

 

Brexiteers were saying this for 20 years now also predicting imminent demise of euro and collapse of eu

 

Except it’s the pound that lost its value, uk economy decimated, whole sectors destroyed and uk itself on brink of splintering 

[yelims]

46 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Do you think the UK was stupid not to join the Euro?

Yes it was euro gas remained remarkably stable against dollar while in same timeframe pound lost like 20% it’s value which is direct form of taxation on people holding pounds 

in another 20 years it be as weak as the rouble 

[thecrashingisles]

10 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Nope - everything they do is fuelled by a rocket fuel of ineptness and greed.

They seek the easy way out on everything they should do. And spend the rest of the time nurturing their ever-growing personal fortune prospectus. I reckon it's a time split of 5% on token governance - the remaining 95% looking for the next bung.

If they were replaced by people whose personal ethics were beyond reproach but pursued the same policies (perhaps Steve Baker), would you be able to be more detached?

[debtlessmanc]

1 minute ago, yelims said:

Yes it was euro gas remained remarkably stable against dollar while in same timeframe pound lost like 20% it’s value which is direct form of taxation on people holding pounds 

in another 20 years it be as weak as the rouble 

on the other hand we had high employment unlike most of the Euro zone. The uk at least has the option of printing its way out of trouble, much of the eurozone is becoming zombified.