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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.


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So people carry on working like they always did, except not for money, who needs to pay child minders when can look after own or even teach own, grow own, cook own, ride a bike, make power from the sun and wind........fish belong to all who wish to go fishing and have a boat and rod.

People work for those that do not do it for themselves, don't want to do it for themselves, can't do it for themselves or too busy doing other things so are forced to pay for others to do it for them...... people will have more time to do many more things for themselves thus creating their own employment.;)

None of which will add to gdp, so will all be officially discouraged and penalised. 

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I do.   https://twitter.com/housepricemania

1409 pages....you guys should have your own forum !!!

Oh OK. Shame that really, but hey it looks like @IMHAL helped us both out. Nice repost though, thanks ! Any thoughts ?  

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It doesn't stop that Eurovision song contest having Australia entering.

Anyhow, as you know full well, that is not the point.  The majority of successful nations do not feel the need to enter into an EU-type project.

Lol re eurovision, although I can't believe we're still having this discussion.

As you well know we're one of the only countries the world outside of their local trading bloc, so pointing out that for example Bolivia, who is in a South American trade bloc rather than the European trade bloc but is doing OK seems a tad messed up ;)

 

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This shows how much claim older generations have on younger generations' future work. Most of this wealth is just a mirage. It would take over 5 years for all people in the UK to work for free to pay off those claims. I doubt the new generations will be willing to dedicate so much of their work to pay liabilities that were created by the previous generations without their consent.   

Most of private pensions are unfunded, even funded one are holding a lot of gilts (claim of future tax receipts).  The older generations were overpaid, those promises unlikely to be met, at least not in a real term.

Property value is in majority realised by a buyer taking debt backed by his/her future work.  We know how unsustainable house prices are. 

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History is littered with unsuccessful unions. 

They were united by force or guile, they had ambition. 

Then they lost a war and disappeared.  

All this bigger is better argument presupposes that ec will survive, unlike the long list of imperial powers which preceeded them, and didn't.  

Countries seem to last longer than superstates in europe. And when they crash, countries re assert themselves. 

If you're going to bet on anything, bet on France and Germany still being french and German.  Not a psychological abortion known as euro man replacing them. 

So your prediction is that the UK will collapse? Does that mean it would have been better for the UK never to have existed? Or does it just mean that times change?

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Tis true......so how discouraged and penalised?;)

Rhodesian fellows were happy living in huts and farming. 

So government introduced a Hut tax and forced them into the mines to pay it. 

Just ban things and tax others. Eg ban more than 6 solar panels. Ban more than 100 l of water storage. Ban coal. 

Tax until they can't live without working for tax money. 

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What's physical wealth? 

I look at these figures and think if there was a big housing and stock market crash, the total would half. But there would still be exactly the same number of houses and stuff. 

Things, cars, jewelry, tvs, machines ...

It is worse, pensions are mostly promises.

https://www.pensionsage.com/pa/UK-pension-liabilities-reach-7-6trn-almost-5trn-unfunded.php 

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So your prediction is that the UK will collapse? Does that mean it would have been better for the UK never to have existed? Or does it just mean that times change?

Europe may not survive as a superstate. But France and Germany will survive as countries. 

Ditto england and Scotland vs uk. 

 

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Europe may not survive as a superstate. But France and Germany will survive as countries. 

Ditto england and Scotland vs uk. 

 

So does it follow that it would have been better not to create the UK, or was it right for its time? If the EU lasts for another 200 years but then dissolves, would that prove it was a bad idea to begin with?

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Europe may not survive as a superstate. But France and Germany will survive as countries. 

Ditto england and Scotland vs uk. 

 

Germany is a federal state. 

France as a single state we know was created XIX century.  For a long time it was a mosaic of feudal states. 

I think it is fair to say that all states are dynamic concepts and can split into smaller components or merge into bigger entities.  

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So your prediction is that the UK will collapse? Does that mean it would have been better for the UK never to have existed? Or does it just mean that times change?

I prefer variety. Hence I prefer a disunited Kingdom of 3 independent countries, or 27, rather than a political construct with no place in the heart such as the acronyms uk and eu. 

All the waffle about bigger is better disguises the real purpose of these acronyms in the first place: defence, and conquest. 

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What's physical wealth? 

I look at these figures and think if there was a big housing and stock market crash, the total would half. But there would still be exactly the same number of houses and stuff. 

Not all is physical and houses, there are also liabilities and debt as well.

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So does it follow that it would have been better not to create the UK, or was it right for its time? If the EU lasts for another 200 years but then dissolves, would that prove it was a bad idea to begin with?

If it lasts 20 years that would prove it was a bad idea in the first place. 

If it gets involved in a nuclear war, that would also be a bad result. Same for uk.

The trouble with remainers is they ignore all the considerable problems in Europe,  and just pretend it's all sunny uplands. 

My personal view is Europe will change utterly in the next couple of decades, to fix all its considerable problems but it will survive. 

Same for uk. 

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However the big 3 ones have been real. GFC, Brexit and Covid.   We have an economy and society that relies on optimism, ie if everything goes right then certain other things will happen for our/my benefit, which is fine but with zero fall-back plan, which is in fact why the government failed with covid after ignoring the pandemic planning that was recommended 3 or so years ago.  For more economic matters, if something originated at government level  fails then that class of people that is known as the 'buffer class'  in right-wing thinktank talk, can take a hit and be ringfenced out of society.  This is what has happened with housing, nearly 40 years of  social housing reduction has created sh *t living conditions and homelessness for many people and seriously overpriced housing for the rest of us (ie why this site exists).  Whereas if their cronies fail, they get a big doses of upper class socialism, ie bankers bailed out and go back to doing what they do at the same time as everyone else has to take a decade Tory austerity, meantime crony businesses are getting their pockets filled with a covid spending spree which the buffer class will have to pay for with more austerity.

Damn good post Steve. In a nutshell.

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If it lasts 20 years that would prove it was a bad idea in the first place. 

If it gets involved in a nuclear war, that would also be a bad result. Same for uk.

The trouble with remainers is they ignore all the considerable problems in Europe,  and just pretend it's all sunny uplands. 

My personal view is Europe will change utterly in the next couple of decades, to fix all its considerable problems but it will survive. 

Same for uk. 

How do you think the UK will change?

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How do you think the UK will change?

Scotland is a doing badly economically. 

Why not let them play their own riff? It might even work better. 

That's one change. 

Northern Ireland might join ireland eventually (not that the south wants them). Meanwhile they may do more of their own thing too. (I'm sure smuggling will be a growth industry.) That's another change. 

More manufacturing possibly. 

Many other things are possible with good government, but will we ever get one? British governments always seem to end up as coalitions working for parasites. 

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  There are also Polish providing services that never existed like the local hand wash for cars.  No Brit is going to stand outside in January washing cars for a few quid.  

I'm not convinced a Brit could service a mortgage/the rent and a family on such wages and volumes, so I'm not sure how any other nationality could either, unless they are receiving additional subsidies or benefits.

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I'm not convinced a Brit could service a mortgage/the rent and a family on such wages and volumes, so I'm not sure how any other nationality could either, unless they are receiving additional subsidies or benefits.

It works like this: rent a place for 700 a month. Put 10 people in it sleeping in dormitories.  Live cheap. 

Save money and send it home to build a 5 bedroom mansion. And a business. 

When it's paid off, go home and live like a winner. 

That's the plan anyway. 

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Rhodesian fellows were happy living in huts and farming. 

So government introduced a Hut tax and forced them into the mines to pay it. 

Just ban things and tax others. Eg ban more than 6 solar panels. Ban more than 100 l of water storage. Ban coal. 

Tax until they can't live without working for tax money. 

So what should we do, put up, pay up and shut up?.........or move, but hey! can no longer do that.......do as we say not as we do.;)

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So what should we do, put up, pay up and shut up?.........or move, but hey! can no longer do that.......do as we say not as we do.;)

Spend less save more and get out of debt, work less if they tax more and keep voting for change. That's all you can do. 

It's been like that since 2008. 

Being off grid means having the capital to set it up. Most can't afford it.  And the new rules like 6 solar panels, or 1000 l maximum water storage or no burning coal  are designed to frustrate it. 

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This shows how much claim older generations have on younger generations' future work. Most of this wealth is just a mirage. It would take over 5 years for all people in the UK to work for free to pay off those claims. I doubt the new generations will be willing to dedicate so much of their work to pay liabilities that were created by the previous generations without their consent.   

Most of private pensions are unfunded, even funded one are holding a lot of gilts (claim of future tax receipts).  The older generations were overpaid, those promises unlikely to be met, at least not in a real term.

Property value is in majority realised by a buyer taking debt backed by his/her future work.  We know how unsustainable house prices are. 

Where do you people get this outlook?

The next generation will inherit this property wealth.  The pension wealth is what is there already, in pension funds.  It's effectively a savings account.  The interest earned on it is below inflation and it has been for years.  Your whole way of looking at this is wrong.

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