Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[kotf]

1 hour ago, One-percent said:

So, my understanding in regards to free movement is that England and Wales will be able to firm up their borders but if Scotland stays in the EU, it will have open borders.  I see a problem here unless we decide to rebuild Hadrian's wall.

Isn't it the same as the problem we already know we will face with the Irish border?

[ccc]

4 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

 

It's looks like the break up of the Union will be part of the price to be paid for Brexit. Sturgeon is in a win win position. Even if May manages to push the referendum back until after Brexit that will put it right in the zone where the cost of Brexit is clear but before, even if Brexit is ultimately successful, the benefits become apparent. 

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2017/03/17/scotland-indyref2-a-weaker-economic-case-but-stronger-political/

 

She is in a lose lose position imo. She has got this very very wrong. 

[TheBlueCat]

On 17/03/2017 at 8:58 AM, kzb said:

The Single Market was established on 1st January 1993.  It seems to me that the worst that could happen is we go back to 1992.

If you are too young to remember 1992, let me reassure you that virtually everything that matters was better in 1992 than it is in 2017.  This applies especially to young people -you would be better off in 1992.

I am not claiming that the worsening of conditions for the young is a result of the single market only.  The biggest factor is probably globalisation. But on the other hand, the single market has not stopped it happening either.

Yes, I couldn't agree more. As a young person back then, the situation for me was so much better than for people of the same age now.

[TheBlueCat]

4 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

 

It's looks like the break up of the Union will be part of the price to be paid for Brexit. Sturgeon is in a win win position. Even if May manages to push the referendum back until after Brexit that will put it right in the zone where the cost of Brexit is clear but before, even if Brexit is ultimately successful, the benefits become apparent. 

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2017/03/17/scotland-indyref2-a-weaker-economic-case-but-stronger-political/

 

I don't agree (although I'd like to see them leave anyway). I have Scottish relatives who voted leave last time who've told me they will be voting remain if there's another referendum - they've seen the way the wind is blowing with the oil price and the huge budget deficit they'd have after independence and think that it would be stupid to jump before that's resolved. They also don't rate the Nats and will, surprisingly, be voting Tory next time around.

[One-percent]

4 hours ago, kotf said:

Isn't it the same as the problem we already know we will face with the Irish border?

There is a sea between the mainland and Ireland so even if it is problematic to put border controls between north and south, they could be strengthened at pots and airports 

[kotf]

24 minutes ago, One-percent said:

There is a sea between the mainland and Ireland so even if it is problematic to put border controls between north and south, they could be strengthened at pots and airports 

But you don't solve the problem unless you are proposing the introduction of controls on transport between NI and the mainland (i.e. for internal UK traffic). The only logical outcome is a hard border across Ireland and also one between England and Scotland (in the case of an independent Scotland in the EU). I don't see any difference between the cases.

[One-percent]

7 minutes ago, kotf said:

But you don't solve the problem unless you are proposing the introduction of controls on transport between NI and the mainland (i.e. for internal UK traffic). The only logical outcome is a hard border across Ireland and also one between England and Scotland (in the case of an independent Scotland in the EU). I don't see any difference between the cases.

Yep, it's a mess isn't it.  I'm playing around with ideas on how, post brexit, if the uk splits how England's border can be secured.  

[kzb]

We went through all this last time.  Scotland would have to apply to rejoin the EU.

According to R4 today Spain and Belgium would object to Scotland just staying in while rest of UK left.

All new applicants must to aim to adopt the euro and join the Shengan zone.

[Dave Beans]

42 minutes ago, kzb said:

We went through all this last time.  Scotland would have to apply to rejoin the EU.

According to R4 today Spain and Belgium would object to Scotland just staying in while rest of UK left.

All new applicants must to aim to adopt the euro and join the Shengan zone.

Scotland could find it easier to stay in the single market, by deciding to join the EEA, and they could opt out of Schengen, much like us & Rep Ireland...They also don't need to join the customs union, so they could have an FTA with England.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

 

 

57 minutes ago, kzb said:

We went through all this last time.  Scotland would have to apply to rejoin the EU.

According to R4 today Spain and Belgium would object to Scotland just staying in while rest of UK left.

All new applicants must to aim to adopt the euro and join the Shengan zone.

Which is why the so called 52:48 win for the Brexit lobby is actually their ultimate defeat.

When Brexit is eventually reversed, which will definitely happen within 20 years, though more likely in under 10, then we will have no choice but to take the Euro and Schengen.

This may even be what the current Conservative plot is.

Which is why Brexit was such a stupid idea in the first place. We were doing perfectly well with the Single Market, and either we'll get a largely rejigged status quo just technically outside of the EU, or it will be harder in which case the boomerang will be quicker.

 

[XswampyX]

[thecrashingisles]

48 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Which is why the so called 52:48 win for the Brexit lobby is actually their ultimate defeat.

When Brexit is eventually reversed, which will definitely happen within 20 years, though more likely in under 10, then we will have no choice but to take the Euro and Schengen.

It will be reversed before we exit IMHO.

[ZeroSumGame]

Quote

Record numbers of EU nurses quit NHS               Guardian           

What on earth is wrong with these people? Why are they going home?  Can't these stupid people see that the New Jerusalem is just around the corner?

[XswampyX]

10 minutes ago, ZeroSumGame said:

What on earth is wrong with these people? Why are they going home?  Can't these stupid people see that the New Jerusalem is just around the corner?

No skin in the game. Just another reason to get rid if you ask me. Doesn't Spain need nurses?

[the gardener]

2 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

 

 

Which is why the so called 52:48 win for the Brexit lobby is actually their ultimate defeat.

When Brexit is eventually reversed, which will definitely happen within 20 years, though more likely in under 10, then we will have no choice but to take the Euro and Schengen.

This may even be what the current Conservative plot is.

Which is why Brexit was such a stupid idea in the first place. We were doing perfectly well with the Single Market, and either we'll get a largely rejigged status quo just technically outside of the EU, or it will be harder in which case the boomerang will be quicker.

 

I shall submit your post to the Oxford English Dictionary who are apparently searching for the perfect definition of the word Delusion.

[rollover]

What better way to celebrate this momentous occasion than by gathering all the family and enjoying an old-fashioned board game? politico.eu

 

[Confusion of VIs]

5 hours ago, One-percent said:

There is a sea between the mainland and Ireland so even if it is problematic to put border controls between north and south, they could be strengthened at pots and airports 

Do you seriously think we could have a porous border between north and south Ireland and a real border between NI and the rest of the UK. .    

[One-percent]

1 minute ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Do you seriously think we could have a porous border between north and south Ireland and a real border between NI and the rest of the UK. .    

Yep, it's called passport control 

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

2 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

It will be reversed before we exit IMHO.

Fingers crossed.

I really don't want to end up with the Euro.  And equally want to stay in the single market.

[Confusion of VIs]

On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 11:11 AM, Confusion of VIs said:

Just to throw a bit more grist into the Brexit mill. 

Apparently (according to a rumor going round today) the overnight fall in the £ was caused by concerns that this time the SNP are going to base their economic case for independence on leaving the £; and that if they do this they are not legally obliged to pay anything towards the National Debt, a £150bn independence bonus. 

Probably nonsense but it would make for a lively campaign.      

Not just a rumor any more Alex Salmond has said that Scotland may decide to leave the £, and the debt, behind if Scotland votes for independence.

  

[Confusion of VIs]

15 minutes ago, One-percent said:

Yep, it's called passport control 

Inside the UK?

That's more like the internal boarders of the Soviet Union than a free country.

[One-percent]

1 minute ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Not just a rumor any more Alex Salmond has said that Scotland may decide to leave the £, and the debt, behind if Scotland votes for independence.

  

Well let's hope they take their bankrupt banks with them

[Confusion of VIs]

Just now, One-percent said:

Well let's hope they take their bankrupt banks with them

You can hope, but not likely. 

 

[Confusion of VIs]

54 minutes ago, the gardener said:

I shall submit your post to the Oxford English Dictionary who are apparently searching for the perfect definition of the word Delusion.

Too late you are already the definition.

[One-percent]

8 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

You can hope, but not likely. 

 

Why not? Why should the English taxpayer carry the can for their failed organisations if they choose to leave?