Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Social Justice League]

 

Is a HPC now nailed on?

Let's hope it's a depression.  The north can sell pies and ale though, so that should see them ok when they are a seperate country.  Plenty of sheep up there to.

Let's call the new country 'Great Brexit'

[skinnylattej]

 

again that would be up to AI to provide. you cannot trust over evolved monkeys to sort that out.

Problem with AI as the solution is that there may be residues of the culture and biases that were responsible for it's development.  Secondly, using AI as a solution is, in my view, a cop-out, as ignores the basic elements of humanity.  I accept the point the humans screw up, but I also look at a world where humans have achieved wonderful things.

Perhaps a better way forward would be a panel of philosophers working logicians and data scientists who can retain elements of humanity in the process. 

After all, they wouldn't have to do very well to beat this bunch of *******.

[skinnylattej]

 

I mean a computer that can judge human "goverenance"  with no interest in personal gain. That is the weakness in the current systems

Rawls proposed a way around that problem, with those who design the system being veiled.  His work on the difference principal still has merit.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

 

Let's hope it's a depression.  The north can sell pies and ale though, so that should see them ok when they are a seperate country.  Plenty of sheep up there to.

Let's call the new country 'Great Brexit'

I’d go with that. They mainly rely on southern taxes, so the tax in New Normandy could be lowered 🙂

Edited December 6, 2020 by Mikhail Liebenstein

[NobodyInParticular]

 

Who could/would create such a machine.

Who doesn't matter so much as what it is supposed to do. Is this to micromanage tax rates, or to be something all encompassing? What principles are to be embedded? What oversight is there to ensure it doesn't decide to eliminate us all? If all encompassing it would be strong AI of a type never before created and (depending on who you talk to) ten years ahead or never. I have a background in machine learning.

However, something that is weak AI may be sufficient to do a lot if the data to train it is appropriate. If not then you are actually talking about an expert system which is not actually intelligent and then is just as good as the experts it is modelled on.

You'd be better off just using machine learning style AI and traditional modelling for decision support. In fact I think you'd get more out of modelling than AI. AI isn't some magic bullet.

 

Sanity doesn’t always prevail.

It hasn't so far.

 

I worry that both Johnson and Macron think that politically they would benefit from no deal. I don't know about Macron but there is plenty of reason to think that Johnson's will put self/party interest over what is good for the country.  

I don't think Macron cares any more. A skinny FTA or no deal is much the same and the UK has been a giant pain in his French **** and of those before him for a while now. I get the impression that for everyone but Merkel patience has run very, very thin. For which the EU will be blamed, of course. It's like the UK has become a big narcissist or toddler. The UK needs to grow up, although more likely is England will be left to grow up on its own. And I hope that happens, but it will take a while.

 

I am pretty sure that, no matter how good/bad the deal or outcome turns out to be, there will be no serious re-join effort in the foreseeable future. The issue will be too toxic for either main party to touch for a very long time. 

EEA is the best we can hope for in the next 20 years.

 

Has anyone even noticed that this "easiest deal ever" has turned into a final roll of the dice to try and  salvage a bad deal.

It was going to be bad as soon as May ruled out CU and the Norway+ option from Farage wasn't Brexity enough for... Farage. In fact, anything that Farage said was Brexit would be, according to Farage, be treachery, yet he hasn't handed himself in at the Tower of London. Very odd.

 

...and there will always be a French veto..

Ah - sick man of Europe and de Macron saying no. How very 1960s. Will London swing again? At least we still have Keef Richards to help us through the 19th nervous breakdown.

 

It's going to be a bad deal or a no deal and it's going to be a fooking disaster for all those northen monkeys who voted for this shit show, along with over half the country who never wanted to leave in the first place.

That's the tragedy. They were told for a long time everything was the EU's fault when it was the UK government. Where do they go from here?

 

I have always held the view that No Deal was always the plan.

Johnson told the ERG almost a year ago this was the intention. And the IMB and the pratting around from Frost all summer seems to support this being the case since the last election.

 

All these 'negotiation' have been a sham, no wonder Barnier et al complain that the UK will not really negotiate.

Yes. Barnier should get the award for most patient man in history from the Society for Awards to Patient People for Being Patient. At least he should get it eventually. Obviously not any time soon. He's shown an ability to wait his turn.

[NobodyInParticular]

 

I’d go with that. They mainly rely on southern taxes, so the tax in New Normandy could be lowered 🙂

They grow lots of asparagus and lavender in Yorkshire, so the South will be willing to send hard earned Euros there after rejoining the EU.

The South West, also voted for Brexit, but not a natural bedfellow for Mancunians, I would have thought.

[dugsbody]

 

I agree with this as well, but it goes further than this. A big reason this was able to continue across governments is because those who would become remain voters were quite happy to merely castigate those trying to bring these issues up as racists and little englanders. They really enjoyed this sense of self righteousness and thus simply played their hand too far. The longer this went on, the greater the silent majority grew and when the opportunity finally and belatedly came for them to have their say at the ballot box they made sure they did. Remainer hubris enabled governments to keep ignoring these issues which they didn't want to face and the result overall is Brexit.

Exactly. It was my fault that I support freedom of movement and think it is a good thing that people are treated more equally rather than only the elite being allowed to move around Europe.

If only I had listened and opposed freedom of movement then maybe people would not have voted brexit and we would still have freedom of movement.

My fault, sorry.

[NobodyInParticular]

 

Exactly. It was my fault that I support freedom of movement and think it is a good thing that people are treated more equally rather than only the elite being allowed to move around Europe.

If only I had listened and opposed freedom of movement then maybe people would not have voted brexit and we would still have freedom of movement.

My fault, sorry.

I do hope you are going to be reporting to one of Gove's re-education camps after Christmas.

[skinnylattej]

 

They grow lots of asparagus and lavender in Yorkshire, so the South will be willing to send hard earned Euros there after rejoining the EU.

The South West, also voted for Brexit, but not a natural bedfellow for Mancunians, I would have thought.

And the Cornish farmers voted 3:1 in favour of Brexit.  George Eustice's family have a farm near St Ives which relies heavily on EE labour.  See, turkeys do vote for Christmas.

Perhaps all the soon-to-be-redundant retail workers can retrain to pick strawberries?

[NobodyInParticular]

 

And the Cornish farmers voted 3:1 in favour of Brexit.  George Eustice's family have a farm near St Ives which relies heavily on EE labour.  See, turkeys do vote for Christmas.

I thought Eustice was a Remain voter?

 

Perhaps all the soon-to-be-redundant retail workers can retrain to pick strawberries?

Workfare. Very likely.

[pig]

 

Of course, pig, it's all some kind of terrible mistake.

Turn those machines back on.

Precisely - you have posters complacently posing a false choice of ‘affinity’ between Britain and the EU. It’s not that the British can’t be susceptible to infantile nationalism - after all it is just the passive aggressive version of  ‘you can feck off to the EU if you like it so much’ -  it’s just that clear eyed pragmatism is(was?) a stronger feature. 

[Biggus]

 

I am pretty sure that, no matter how good/bad the deal or outcome turns out to be, there will be no serious re-join effort in the foreseeable future. The issue will be too toxic for either main party to touch for a very long time. 

Has anyone even noticed that this "easiest deal ever" has turned into a final roll of the dice to try and  salvage a bad deal.

I agree with this. The process of leaving has been much more difficult than it needed to be. Doing deals with the EU is just not worth it. Best to get out as quickly as possible and not look back.

[btl_hater]

 

I agree with this. The process of leaving has been much more difficult than it needed to be. Doing deals with the EU is just not worth it. Best to get out as quickly as possible and not look back.

Right, so the U.K. should never have a trade deal with the EU?

[Biggus]

 

Right, so the U.K. should never have a trade deal with the EU?

We'll muddle through without one.

[Social Justice League]

 

And the Cornish farmers voted 3:1 in favour of Brexit.  George Eustice's family have a farm near St Ives which relies heavily on EE labour.  See, turkeys do vote for Christmas.

Perhaps all the soon-to-be-redundant retail workers can retrain to pick strawberries?

The Cornish can join the north in 'Great Brexit' then.  They can sell clotted cream until the cows come home.

[Biggus]

 

The Cornish can join the north in 'Great Brexit' then.  They can sell clotted cream until the cows come home.

Or they could work on the farms that rely heavily on EU labour....

[satsuma]

I suppose at this stage there will not be a deal, it’s likely the EU will agree to no tariffs and call it a transition period, I hope so anyway.  Better to go now and return in the new year with a stronger hand.  Could get messy.  

[pig]

 

And the Cornish farmers voted 3:1 in favour of Brexit.  George Eustice's family have a farm near St Ives which relies heavily on EE labour.  See, turkeys do vote for Christmas.

Perhaps all the soon-to-be-redundant retail workers can retrain to pick strawberries?

Yes but Cornish fisherman are now concerned that Brexit will destroy fisherman:

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/brexit-changes-could-final-straw-4710965

One fisherman even claimed he was brainwashed over Brexit

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/fish-merchant-who-voted-brexit-to-take-back-control-of-uk-waters-says-he-was-brainwashed/01/12/

[thehowler]

 

Precisely - you have posters complacently posing a false choice of ‘affinity’ between Britain and the EU. It’s not that the British can’t be susceptible to infantile nationalism - after all it is just the passive aggressive version of  ‘you can feck off to the EU if you like it so much’ -  it’s just that clear eyed pragmatism is(was?) a stronger feature. 

Where we are now is largely a result of our parliamentary system being no longer fit for purpose.

In my view.

[dugsbody]

 

How the best intentions delivered Johnson and the hardest Brexit...for some it begins to sink in.

Should have backed May's deal.

And the last redoubt of the remainer haunch now takes some kind of solace (?) in their claim that a no deal/WTO exit will teach us all a good lesson and things will soon be hunky-dory with us safely back in the EU, a position so beset with immediate damage, risk and unknowability it isn't even worth engaging with.

 

You're not understanding. I wanted Johnson (look back at all my old posts) and I wanted him to deliver what the headbangers wanted. There is no other way to shut them up. 

A meagre free trade deal at this point is the worst of all possible worlds. 

[dugsbody]

 

We'll muddle through without one.

If only that had been the leave campaign motto.

[thehowler]

 

I suppose at this stage there will not be a deal, it’s likely the EU will agree to no tariffs and call it a transition period, I hope so anyway.  Better to go now and return in the new year with a stronger hand.  Could get messy.  

It's not over yet.

Voices are raised, wait for the moment of hushed silence, that's when we'll be into the last scene.

[dugsbody]

 

Or they could work on the farms that rely heavily on EU labour....

I don't think they want to work for the wages that it takes to compete with global farming. We'll just import instead.

[dugsbody]

 

The Algerian alternative would have been giving the arabs full citizenship (and the right to live in France). 

Why did the UK not give all Rhodesians / Zimbabweans full citizenship?

[Biggus]

 

I don't think they want to work for the wages that it takes to compete with global farming. We'll just import instead.

How did they manage before 2004?