Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.


Recommended Posts

 

Yes, a lot of Brexit voters just wanted to be different. Nothing to do with imperialism/enlargement, those days are long gone. They just didn't want to be defined as European.

You say they'll care but I'm not even sure they'll notice. They weren't flying off to Berlin at the weekends to see the art galleries.

I don't feel the establishment ever did enough to show working Brits the real benefits of being in the EU. They kept it to themselves, taking advantage of the financial perks. And then they were outraged when a lot of people were seduced/convinced by parochial arguments.

Brexit was all about local and a failure of the Europhiles.

 "Too many immigrants" was the constant refrain.

Lowering wages. Getting priority for housing. Getting given loads of benefits. Getting pregnant and uk paying for them even after they'd gone back to Poland.  Straining public services. Making houses unavailable. On and on. 

It all boiled down to immigrants + minimum wage. 

And what did remain say? Visa free travel? I can't even remember a single one of their slogans. Oh wait, yes I can: better together. Ye gods. Sounds like an advert for a bank. 

Or have I mis remembered?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 142.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • GrizzlyDave

    9502

  • Confusion of VIs

    7639

  • jonb2

    5790

  • thehowler

    5648

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I do.   https://twitter.com/housepricemania

1409 pages....you guys should have your own forum !!!

Oh OK. Shame that really, but hey it looks like @IMHAL helped us both out. Nice repost though, thanks ! Any thoughts ?  

Posted Images

 

 

Well this week I'm £3.5K poorer (not all profit but a lot is). Customer in Germany pulled out because he would have to pay 19% import VAT. Gone and I won't get it back. It will go to someone else in the EU. 

Yours, from a psspoor shthole in the north of England. 

Apparently you are a bad person for not taking advantages of the 'opportunities'. It's pretty awful that it's happening to you, though.

 

24 hours in a cabin. Weather permitting. Same as flying to Oz.

I don't think it's intended for passengers, rather ro-ro for freight. And it would beat 4 days in a queue at Dover.

The real threat to trade with the UK is truck capacity. If a lorry in the EU wants to deliver stuff to the UK then it is most efficient if it picks up stuff to bring back when in the UK, but it won't want to then be in a queue at customs coming back (assuming there's a no freight lane to speed things up). So shipping will become much more expensive as they have to be paid for the time idling outside Dover, and the capacity will be reduced. And the same is true for exports. Government figures are that apparently capacity will be at 25% of current capacity. Sure, some goods get brought from outside the EU directly to ports, but it's going to be a huge hit for the UK, particularly in terms of food. It's going to be a very rude awakening. I will be topping up my long shelf life provisions.

 

No land bridge will be tough for ROI, and add substantially to haulage costs. And no fault of their own.

Indeed. But it seems that the cost increase will be less than for the UK.

 

It'll be quicker than off at Holyhead, then across to Dover / Folkestone, then onto the continent..

+1

 

Is globalism working?

My own feeling is that a lot of people think it's gone too far. They want a more local world.

People have enjoyed the reduction in price inflation caused by having people across the world make things for them. For all the talk of reduced wages from immigration, having foreigners in foreign countries make things has been an advantage. The big issue is that accommodation costs have increased considerably in the last 20 years.

 

In some respects yes, and in other respects, no.  The harmonisation of standards, and all that, are here to stay.  However, there is very much room for localism (which has been my argument for several years). Both need to work in tandem...

+1

 

None, the UK has taken the maverick path.

More beneficial than the current rollovers but not necessarily more profitable than if we'd stayed in the club.

I don't even buy that we'll get any better than the rollovers. The deals being rolled over were negotiated with the promise of EU access so are the best you can really hope for. When renegotiation arrives the weakness of the UK will result in deals less beneficial for the UK.

 

I think a lot of Brexit voters just didn't want to walk the EU path, they didn't care if they'd be richer or poorer in terms of GDP.

I suspect that this will turn out to be much less the case than they imagined, especially if they still go abroad to places which will fairly obviously be doing much better. It might take 10 years for that gap to be evident, though, so won't affect older voters who will no longer be able to afford to go abroad due to medical insurance costs.

 

The natives were getting restless in the face of this minimum wage + immigrants world (which suited the rich so well). 

The problem with this narrative as the places that voted most strongly for leave were, in general, the places with lower levels of European immigration.

 

 "Too many immigrants" was the constant refrain.

Lowering wages. Getting priority for housing. Getting given loads of benefits. Getting pregnant and uk paying for them even after they'd gone back to Poland.  Straining public services. Making houses unavailable. On and on. 

But none of those things were actually true. The bit that is especially not true is the nonsense about pregnancy as given the agreements on health care between EU member states, then if you aren't working your originating state continues to pay for your medical care in your host country and very much so when you return. Indeed, it's how British 'ex-pats' get their bills paid in Spain, etc.

 

It all boiled down to immigrants + minimum wage. 

And what did remain say? Visa free travel? I can't even remember a single one of their slogans. Oh wait, yes I can: better together.

Better together was the 2014 Scottish referendum, not from 2016.

 

Or have I mis remembered?

Yes.

Edited by NobodyInParticular
Link to post
Share on other sites
 

None, the UK has taken the maverick path.

More beneficial than the current rollovers but not necessarily more profitable than if we'd stayed in the club.

At least that's my view.

That is the 'new' Brexit vision. Before it was more profitable that being in the EU, now that has been degraded. Lets see how far the economic outlook can be degraded before those that voted for Brexit on the promis of sunny uplands start to buckle.

 

I think a lot of Brexit voters just didn't want to walk the EU path, they didn't care if they'd be richer or poorer in terms of GDP.

Not walking the EU path was a ultra hard Brexiteer position, a minority view. Most people who voted leave did so for a myriad of other reasons (some justified and some not), they did not know or could not articulate what the EU path is if they tried.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

 "Too many immigrants" was the constant refrain.

Lowering wages. Getting priority for housing. Getting given loads of benefits. Getting pregnant and uk paying for them even after they'd gone back to Poland.  Straining public services. Making houses unavailable. On and on. 

The issue was the government breaking of the social contract with the people. They reaped the benefits of immigration without compensation (more housing, schools, better services). Remember, immigrants where a higher contributor to the coffers and used less services that the locals - ie a net benefit.

 

It all boiled down to immigrants + minimum wage. 

That was the lightening stick used to ignite the rage against the EU. It should have been directed towards our own government. A grow up conversation...not nationalistic clap trap.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

The issue was the government breaking of the social contract with the people. They reaped the benefits of immigration without compensation (more housing, schools, better services). Remember, immigrants where a higher contributor to the coffers and used less services that the locals - ie a net benefit.

That was the lightening stick used to ignite the rage against the EU. It should have been directed towards our own government. A grow up conversation...not nationalistic clap trap.

Yes, I've said it many times, but people have been ill-served by governments. Ironically, though, it's areas where immigration has been low that have voted most for Brexit, but often these are in communities hit badly by a post-industrial economy and EU money offset some of the damage with little evidence that UK governments would have spent the money. The Cameron government was particularly poor at this as austerity hit those areas, and Major wasn't that great. New Labour was a little better, but not that great, and not enough. The Thatcher years hit those areas hard with one of the few seemingly championing them being Heseltine. And post-Brexit, with Austerity 2.0 coming and the kitty empty, those areas will get it again :(. It's a huge tragedy.

There are pockets in post-industrial areas that have done a bit better, but it's spotty. Leeds has done reasonably well, York moved away from chocolate and train carriage production, Manchester has done well in financial services and hospitality, Birmingham isn't as grim as it used to be, but there are a lot of places, e.g. Barnsley, Stoke, that haven't recovered.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Yes, I've said it many times, but people have been ill-served by governments. Ironically, though, it's areas where immigration has been low that have voted most for Brexit, but often these are in communities hit badly by a post-industrial economy and EU money offset some of the damage with little evidence that UK governments would have spent the money. The Cameron government was particularly poor at this as austerity hit those areas, and Major wasn't that great. New Labour was a little better, but not that great, and not enough. The Thatcher years hit those areas hard with one of the few seemingly championing them being Heseltine. And post-Brexit, with Austerity 2.0 coming and the kitty empty, those areas will get it again :(. It's a huge tragedy.

There are pockets in post-industrial areas that have done a bit better, but it's spotty. Leeds has done reasonably well, York moved away from chocolate and train carriage production, Manchester has done well in financial services and hospitality, Birmingham isn't as grim as it used to be, but there are a lot of places, e.g. Barnsley, Stoke, that haven't recovered.

Large rural areas (who had large influxes of immigration) also voted Leave...such as...

Lincolnshire records UK's highest Brexit vote - BBC News

Edited by Dave Beans
Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Is globalism working?

My own feeling is that a lot of people think it's gone too far. They want a more local world.

Yes, people in developed nations want to sell their advanced medicines, machinery, cars etc to the developing world but don't want to let them do any jobs in return.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

 "Too many immigrants" was the constant refrain.

Lowering wages. Getting priority for housing. Getting given loads of benefits. Getting pregnant and uk paying for them even after they'd gone back to Poland.  Straining public services. Making houses unavailable. On and on. 

It all boiled down to immigrants + minimum wage. 

And what did remain say? Visa free travel? I can't even remember a single one of their slogans. Oh wait, yes I can: better together. Ye gods. Sounds like an advert for a bank. 

Or have I mis remembered?

You've remembered quite correctly.

I started trying to debate with brexiters a while before the referendum and all of this kept coming up. I also encountered many people saying the EU would continue to give us the best access to their markets because they really needed us, we'd forge better trade deals, but mostly it was about immigration.

As far as these people were concerned, the EU was a complete cost sink for us in every single way, therefore we could only ever be better off outside. Any attempts to show otherwise met brick walls. I knew then that vote leave had a very good chance because there was no rational debate to be had about the costs and benefits. It was a complete emotional decision and nationalism and and immigrant sentiment are much stronger emotional pulls than "a single market is great for our economy and therefore your standard of living". Particularly when the 2008 global financial crisis had eroded everyones standard of live followed by six years of Tory austerity. On top of the higher than usual migration due to this, the Greek crisis, migrant crisis, David Cameron could not have picked a worse year in all of our membership to have that referendum.

He is truly a twit of the highest order.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Flippancy, dugs. But you're right, it's foolish to categorize.

Some silly remainers are concerned about their holiday's to the EU but not many. I'm concerned with the broader shrinking of our rights, the harm to the economy and making us worse off. I'm not at all concerned about a weekend trip to Berlin. Who is?

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Yes, a lot of Brexit voters just wanted to be different. Nothing to do with imperialism/enlargement, those days are long gone. They just didn't want to be defined as European.

You say they'll care but I'm not even sure they'll notice. They weren't flying off to Berlin at the weekends to see the art galleries.

I don't feel the establishment ever did enough to show working Brits the real benefits of being in the EU. They kept it to themselves, taking advantage of the financial perks. And then they were outraged when a lot of people were seduced/convinced by parochial arguments.

Brexit was all about local and a failure of the Europhiles.

Twice the cost of Covid - they'll notice that.

Who or what they blame is a different matter.   

Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 

It all boiled down to immigrants + minimum wage. 

That was the lightening stick used to ignite the rage against the EU.I t should have been directed towards our own government. A grow up conversation...not nationalistic clap trap.

It was directed at our own government (mostly), and at our political establishment.  And it continued to be dominantly at our establishment during the time when MPs in Parliament were blocking our leaving and trying to force a second referendum.  I believe the "rage against the EU" aspect is relatively recent, and perhaps (mostly) misguided.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I am, because my wife has family in the EU. It makes it harder to visit them due to loss of EHIC, issues with driving, etc.

Understood but we will have visa free travel (or at least, easy visa travel) and generally most people take annual health insurance policies anyway. 

Short holidays will become slightly less convenient but in the grand scheme not such a big deal. 

But that should not be an argument to support reducing our existing rights. We've been stripped of a citizenship and the right to live anywhere across a continent. This is a major, major deal and it is just brushed aside by brexiters because they think we're talking about weekend breaks. They don't have a world view where they can comprehend that removing this right actually is important to a lot of people.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

The ex-pats in Spain will also notice - state pensions frozen, poorer exchange rate for all pensions, medical costs to cover.

 

I am unsure if the state pension rises will be frozen for those people? I'd expect them to be or it would be grossly unfair to an already unfair generation divide, but I would not put it past this Tory government to look after the elderly at the expense of the youth.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I am unsure if the state pension rises will be frozen for those people?

They are for people not in the EU so I expect they will be frozen.

 

I'd expect them to be or it would be grossly unfair to an already unfair generation divide, but I would not put it past this Tory government to look after the elderly at the expense of the youth.

I'd expect it as much them not wanting them back using up NHS resources in the UK. But who knows

Link to post
Share on other sites

More unintended and unwelcome Brexit outcomes...soggy chips for ROI.

RTE, ref only...

At Leo Burdocks, Denis Duggan spells it out: "We can get home grown potatoes, they will be different, they won’t be as crisp sadly, the sugar balance won’t be the same.

A possible post-Brexit ban on the importation of potatoes from the UK could affect supplies in Ireland next year.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/1130/1181294-potatoes-brexit/

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

More unintended and unwelcome Brexit outcomes...soggy chips for ROI.

RTE, ref only...

At Leo Burdocks, Denis Duggan spells it out: "We can get home grown potatoes, they will be different, they won’t be as crisp sadly, the sugar balance won’t be the same.

A possible post-Brexit ban on the importation of potatoes from the UK could affect supplies in Ireland next year.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/1130/1181294-potatoes-brexit/

At least it's food. I am hoping on the mainland we get to have that, other than manky turnips.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

More unintended and unwelcome Brexit outcomes...soggy chips for ROI.

RTE, ref only...

At Leo Burdocks, Denis Duggan spells it out: "We can get home grown potatoes, they will be different, they won’t be as crisp sadly, the sugar balance won’t be the same.

A possible post-Brexit ban on the importation of potatoes from the UK could affect supplies in Ireland next year.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/1130/1181294-potatoes-brexit/

 

I am sure that deep down the Irish are loving the extra self imposed pain that the UK has dealt itself. Probably worth paying the price of a few soggy chips...unless they import from the EU...very nice tatty's from there. We can be left to eat all of our own almost as soggy chips.

Edited by IMHAL
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.