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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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1 hour ago, Bob8 said:

After five years, and you are so stupid you do not understand, still?

OK, if you want all the UK to have a hard border with the EU, then you have a border in Ireland.

If you do not want a hard border in Ireland, they all the UK cannot have a hard border with the EU.

It really is really, really simple.

It took me years to understand people were genuinely too stupid to understand it.

It's utterly shocking that these basics still have to be repeatedly pointed out to the thickos. 

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34 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

No, just a simple statement of fact.

Interpretation of facts.

35 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

There are many polls and surveys, and almost all of them show that the majority of the British people want to rejoin the EU.

Should we therefore go in and out on the basis of opnion polls? In 2020 we apply to rejoin; in 2025 the polls say leave so we leave; in 2030 they say rejoin so we rejoin.....? Something not quite right there.

37 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Don't forget that in a GE, the majority of people vote the same way they always have, a bit like supporting a football team.

Why therefore did so many Labour constituences vote Tory when the foremost message of the Tories was "lets get Brexit done"? Labour dithered and the Libdems on a straight cancellation got slaughtered.

40 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

This is just a poll, a survey; in view of all the difficulties over the last four, yes four years it's hardly surprising that some think: what's the point?

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44 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

No, just a simple statement of fact.

 

There are many polls and surveys, and almost all of them show that the majority of the British people want to rejoin the EU.

Don't forget that in a GE, the majority of people vote the same way they always have, a bit like supporting a football team.

You're right about one thing though. It's no use arguing, the truth will out.

Finally, because it got buried.....  https://www-businessinsider-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.businessinsider.com/brexit-poll-most-british-people-want-to-rejoin-eu-2020-6?amp

 

  • A newly released survey found just 35% of British people supporting Brexit, with 57% wanting to rejoin the European Union.
  • The nearly 60% of people who told the European Social Survey that they wanted Britain to be in the EU was far greater than the 48% who backed Remain in 2016.
  • Support for EU membership has risen across Europe, the survey said.

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5 minutes ago, crouch said:

Interpretation of facts.

Should we therefore go in and out on the basis of opnion polls? In 2020 we apply to rejoin; in 2025 the polls say leave so we leave; in 2030 they say rejoin so we rejoin.....? Something not quite right there.

Why therefore did so many Labour constituences vote Tory when the foremost message of the Tories was "lets get Brexit done"? Labour dithered and the Libdems on a straight cancellation got slaughtered.

This is just a poll, a survey; in view of all the difficulties over the last four, yes four years it's hardly surprising that some think: what's the point?

The thing is, a GE was the wrong tool to ascertain the will of the people at that time. Cummings fought tooth and nail to get a GE rather than a 2nd referendum because he knew that one was winnable and the other wasn't. Fact, pure and simple.

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1 hour ago, Bob8 said:

After five years, and you are so stupid you do not understand, still?

OK, if you want all the UK to have a hard border with the EU, then you have a border in Ireland.

If you do not want a hard border in Ireland, they all the UK cannot have a hard border with the EU.

It really is really, really simple.

It took me years to understand people were genuinely too stupid to understand it.

It's going to be hard Brexit with very soft borders, init?

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Swinson forced the GE to happen, followed by LibDem silence... until the next "first past the post" needs rigging.

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17 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

The thing is, a GE was the wrong tool to ascertain the will of the people at that time. Cummings fought tooth and nail to get a GE rather than a 2nd referendum because he knew that one was winnable and the other wasn't. Fact, pure and simple.

How can you prove this as a FACT.

I call it speculation.

Anyway, how can one man achieve all that?

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9 minutes ago, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said:

Swinson forced the GE to happen, followed by LibDem silence... until the next "first past the post" needs rigging.

Indeed.

Cummings was waiting for someone to blink, and it was Swinson. Truth be known, he probably fed her some guff that she could win a majority and off she went, on the road to ruin.

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1 minute ago, Byron said:

How can you prove this as a FACT.

I call it speculation.

Anyway, how can one man achieve all that?

How did one man manage to keep his job after his trip to Durham and drive to test his eyesight? The man has powerful bosses.

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9 hours ago, dryrot said:

(my emph) Do you read any posts on this forum? Brexit benefits include... Control of our borders - Ability to make and change our own laws - Free trade with the world (cheaper food!) - not having to pay £bn to the EU?....

We always had the ability to control our borders, so much ability that we decided not to use many o the powers available to us.

We had the ability to make and change our own laws, for the small minority of laws we decided to cooperate with the EU, 95% of the time those laws were voted for by the UK.

Free trade doesn't exist anywhere in the world trade is always based upon agreements between the parties, after leaving the EU we will have the opportunity to renegotiate those agreements from a position of weakness.

The Director General of the WTO told Andrew Marr that the UK agricultural sector will be hit hard by leaving and that overall he expected food prices to rise, still what would he know?

It's nice we are saving our 0.5% GDP subs but as the government's own guess is that a WTO exit will cost us over 9% of our economy that still leaves us an awful lot of money to find from somewhere.    

Have another go I am sure there must be a clear benefit somewhere. 

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32 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

How did one man manage to keep his job after his trip to Durham and drive to test his eyesight? The man has powerful bosses.

Nothing to do with the question.

You made a dogmatic statement.

Do you wish to answer it?

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Just now, Byron said:

Nothing to do with the question.

You made a dogmatic statement.

Do you wish to answer it?

No point, you'd only argue, and it's quite obvious that a GE was the wrong tool to ascertain the will of the people at that time. Cummings fought tooth and nail to get a GE rather than a 2nd referendum because he knew that one was winnable and the other wasn't. 

 

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3 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

 

Bit of a strange letter.  Fanatical even - unless it was  for Brexiteer consumption rather than Barnier ?
 

 

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10 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:
  • A newly released survey found just 35% of British people supporting Brexit, with 57% wanting to rejoin the European Union.
  • The nearly 60% of people who told the European Social Survey that they wanted Britain to be in the EU was far greater than the 48% who backed Remain in 2016.
  • Support for EU membership has risen across Europe, the survey said.

Its from 2019 and calls itself “the european social survey” it claims that (eg) 18.6% of italians would leave the eu. This survey from this year suggests 44% would vote leave

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52666870

shall we put 100% error bars in such surveys?. To be serious how on earth can there be such discrepencies? 
after googling it turns out that the European social survey is funded by the commission, what a surprise...

Edited by debtlessmanc

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Boris seems to have backed down on lining up to leave the current trade extension with no deal: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8472369/Boris-Johnson-gives-EU-three-months-seal-Brexit-deal-face-face-talks-resume-Brussels.html

But the Boris worshipping Mail won’t report it as such. People may recall just a few weeks back we were told if the current round of talks didn’t conclude, then we’d jump ship with no deal.

I think the remaining few true Brexiters will be getting very angry with Boris!!!  Fun to watch Brexit unravelling.

 

Edited by Mikhail Liebenstein

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7 hours ago, longgone said:

Did the eu sort out their own debt mess yet ?

Seems not all wanted to pay up.😂

 

What are your thoughts on the debt mess in the UK? Does that mean the UK is a failed project and we should dissolve and let each nation go on its own, free in glorious sovereignty?

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7 hours ago, pig said:

Bit of a strange letter.  Fanatical even - unless it was  for Brexiteer consumption rather than Barnier ?
 

 

Completely for brexiter consumption. It works too, the masses love it.

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12 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

The thing is, a GE was the wrong tool to ascertain the will of the people at that time. Cummings fought tooth and nail to get a GE rather than a 2nd referendum because he knew that one was winnable and the other wasn't. Fact, pure and simple.

Not so. I have given you another interpretation. As other posters have said why is your interpretation right and others wrong?

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19 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

What are your thoughts on the debt mess in the UK? Does that mean the UK is a failed project and we should dissolve and let each nation go on its own, free in glorious sovereignty?

I think Southern England should cede to France, Wales and NI to Eire, and Scotland to Denmark.

The bit in the middle can rename itself Brexitland and roll in its own mess.

 

Edited by Mikhail Liebenstein

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12 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:
13 hours ago, Bob8 said:

After five years, and you are so stupid you do not understand, still?

OK, if you want all the UK to have a hard border with the EU, then you have a border in Ireland.

If you do not want a hard border in Ireland, they all the UK cannot have a hard border with the EU.

It really is really, really simple.

It took me years to understand people were genuinely too stupid to understand it.

It's utterly shocking that these basics still have to be repeatedly pointed out to the thickos. 

Like our Prime Minister?

 

It seems clear to me that Boris is still trying to get a hard Brexit politically with no border and as close as possible to seamless trade with the single market.  He will either act "dismayed" when he does not get it, or act "shocked" when he finds that this causes problems if he does manage to pull a fast one.

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35 minutes ago, crouch said:

Not so. I have given you another interpretation. As other posters have said why is your interpretation right and others wrong?

Because it is blindingly obvious.

The matter is now closed. 

Edited by Bruce Banner

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10 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

We always had the ability to control our borders, so much ability that we decided not to use many o the powers available to us.

This is sophistry. We always have some ability to control our borders; the question is: is it enough? Inside the EU, even with the powers we did not use, it was perceived as not enough.

11 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

We had the ability to make and change our own laws, for the small minority of laws we decided to cooperate with the EU, 95% of the time those laws were voted for by the UK.

Because the EU is a confederation it has limited competences so there are areas where we can make our own laws.

UK law is very heaviliy influenced by EU law. I posted a link yesterday concerning the Factortame case, a landmark decision that finally brought home the extent to which the EU had reached into our lawmaking powers. It was considered to be a decision that gave a decisive push to euroscepticsm.

11 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Free trade doesn't exist anywhere in the world trade is always based upon agreements between the parties, after leaving the EU we will have the opportunity to renegotiate those agreements from a position of weakness.

These things are trade offs. You are of course right that not being part of a large trade bloc means that we lose strength. On the other hand being outside the EU gives greater flexibility. Which is more important in the long run remains to be seen.

11 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

The Director General of the WTO told Andrew Marr that the UK agricultural sector will be hit hard by leaving and that overall he expected food prices to rise, still what would he know?

I've looked at that interview (14 June) and he says that agriculture would be disrupted in a WTO scenario but I didn't see anything about higher prices specifically although you could say it's implicit.

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13 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Because it is blindingly obvious.

No I don't think it is. You would be right about the revealed motive if what you said about Cummings was correct but is it?

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  • 395 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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