Riedquat Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 23 minutes ago, IMHAL said: Re the sovereignty spectrum. Depends on what you mean by worthwhile and to whom. Of course, everything's subjective. That's why it's impossible for there to ever be universal agreement on anything. You may as well demand agreement that Marmite is wonderful / disgusting (delete as applicable). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Riedquat said: Of course, everything's subjective. That's why it's impossible for there to ever be universal agreement on anything. You may as well demand agreement that Marmite is wonderful / disgusting (delete as applicable). The cop out of all cop outs. Glad to see Brexiteers adding yet more clarity So Brexitters can't tell us what meaningful means or to who this applies to. Thanks. Edited June 17, 2020 by IMHAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14stFlyer Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said: 1 hour ago, 14stFlyer said: I would love it to be the case that the most optimistic, happy and go-get-it individuals In Britain voted positively for a Brexit vision of any kind. However, I think this is unlikely. Could it perhaps be that the majority of Brexit voters voted to leave the EU because they saw the benefits of being in the EU going to other people and not being experienced by themselves? Did they see that or were they told that. It's pretty hard to objectively assess what the reality of that is. Agreed. All I am commenting on is the relationship that I see between strongly remain voting areas and benefitting from the EU (say Cambridge with its tech companies and integrated academia and St Albans with its retired travellers and London commuters ) and just up the road leave areas that voted strongly for Brexit and have a population where EU membership might be seen as less beneficial locally (say Boston and Stevenage). I am not commenting on whether the populations noticed these differences themselves and voted accordingly, or were influenced by local campaigns that rammed these things down their throats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, IMHAL said: The cop out of all cop outs. Glad to see Brexiteers adding yet more clarity So Brexitters can't tell us what meaningful means or to who this applies to. Thanks. I can't in absolute terms, no. But anyone who thinks they can on any situation is deluding themselves. I'm afraid what you're labelling as cop-out is called "reality." People seeking simple, straightforward, unquestionable, unambiguous answers to anything real life situation will be doomed to being constantly perplexed about the world and people, and probably resort to complaining about how others can't explain it to them. The reason this thread still hasn't really got anywhere is the refusal to believe that it's all entirely subjective and that different people with different values simply won't agree. It's necessary to understand that element of human nature to get anywhere, but doing so requires accepting that everything isn't as simple and straightforward as you'd (generic you) like it to be, that there's no provable, definitively correct answer that'll satisfy everyone. Edited June 17, 2020 by Riedquat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Riedquat said: I can't in absolute terms, no. But anyone who thinks they can on any situation is deluding themselves. I'm afraid what you're labelling as cop-out is called "reality." People seeking simple, straightforward, unquestionable, unambiguous answers to anything real life situation will be doomed to being constantly perplexed about the world and people, and probably resort to complaining about how others can't explain it to them. The reason this thread still hasn't really got anywhere is the refusal to believe that it's all entirely subjective and that different people with different values simply won't agree. It's necessary to understand that element of human nature to get anywhere, but doing so requires accepting that everything isn't as simple and straightforward as you'd (generic you) like it to be, that there's no provable, definitively correct answer that'll satisfy everyone. I guess we can all agree (most reasonable people that is) that we need jobs, opportunities and to put food on the table. If that capacity diminishes then by any measure Brexit has failed. That is leaver clarity....not a shirky Brexiteer cop out take no responsibility and have no accountability type answer. In Brexiteer land the unicorn must no be defined lest it vanishes in a cloud of fairy dust. Edited June 17, 2020 by IMHAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 18 hours ago, dugsbody said: Why bother with a sensible reply to a brexit supporter on an internet forum telling us the Germans regret being part of the EU? It is just another brexiter arrogance, besides of course just being completely false. You're still blaming the EU for every countries domestic issue too. And then you have the audacity to challenge us to see reality. Bonkers. Yeah 4 years of intensive debate later they haven't got their head around the EU being sustained by the financial contributions of its members. Apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, pig said: Yeah 4 years of intensive debate later they haven't got their head around the EU being sustained by the financial contributions of its members. Apparently. They are too fixated on one side of the ledger, never acknowledging the upside of that investment. It's called knowing the cost of everything, but the value of nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btl_hater Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, IMHAL said: It's called knowing the cost of everything, but the value of nothing. Never a truer statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 5 hours ago, crouch said: I understand that most Leavers (not the majority of the population ) voted to return sovereignty and control of borders. North Korea has sovereignty and control of it's borders. Must be an acceptable outcome to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14stFlyer Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, IMHAL said: I guess we can all agree (most reasonable people that is) that we need jobs, opportunities and to put food on the table. Indeed we can. But I think some Brexit voters would find swapping some ridiculously high paid jobs in the City of London for access to local jobs picking fruit or making sandwiches a benefit, even though this would have a significant detrimental effect on GDP. To be clear, I am not convinced all in Brexit land will accept Brexit as a failure just because some of the wonderful opportunities that were never available to them are no longer available to others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, 14stFlyer said: Indeed we can. But I think some Brexit voters would find swapping some ridiculously high paid jobs in the City of London for access to local jobs picking fruit or making sandwiches a benefit, even though this would have a significant detrimental effect on GDP. To be clear, I am not convinced all in Brexit land will accept Brexit as a failure just because some of the wonderful opportunities that were never available to them are no longer available to others... I don't enirely disagree with that provided the uk coffers are not too adversely affected. However when it starts to affect the ordinary man, in significant numbers, be that directly or indirectly, that is a different matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, pig said: Yeah 4 years of intensive debate later they haven't got their head around the EU being sustained by the financial contributions of its members. Apparently. The EU is sustained by a politcal ideal not the financial contributions of its members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, crouch said: The EU is sustained by a politcal ideal not the financial contributions of its members. Sure, but after you've decided to collaborate and cooperate funding helps get things done. Doesn't change the fact that its understandable people getting confused by the side of a bus for few months but not four fecking years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 On 14/06/2020 at 17:13, Dave Beans said: An FTA with the US will scupper this.. However I'm reading we'll be getting cheaper Aussie Tim-Tams. Worth it ? https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-tim-tam-brexit-australia-a4471581.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHorseWaits-NoMore Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Quote “We send you Penguins and you send us, with reduced tariffs, these wonderful Arnott’s Tim Tams. “How long can the British people be deprived of the opportunity to have Arnott’s Tim Tams at a reasonable price?”https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-tim-tam-brexit-australia-a4471581.html Wow, let me at them Tim Tam Scooby snacks. FFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Bloomberg: Europeans Shun Brexit London, City’s Biggest Housebuilder Says Quote European buyers are shunning rental investments in the city, although demand from other parts of the world remains strong, according to Rob Perrins, chief executive officer of Berkeley Group Holdings Plc. “The real trend is a real reduction in European buyers,” Perrins said by telephone Wednesday. “It used to be about 4% to 5% for us and it has dropped down to 1%. Brexit effectively has meant that London is not seen as a place where Europeans want to invest at the moment.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said: Wow, let me at them Tim Tam Scooby snacks. FFS. I guess thats us picking up our prize ? They must find it hilarious, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) We send Aussies Marmite they send us Vegemite? I much prefer the later myself, which is already widely available here of course. Will this trade deal mean that Vegemite will become tariff free and hence cheaper? I do hope so as my once every two months purchase of a jar is killing me. Yay, Brexit dividend, cheaper Vegemite. EDIT. Just been to Tesco and a 220g jar of Vegemite is £2;17 and 250g of Marmite is £2:70 so Vegemite is already cheaper. If the currently devastating tariffs are removed we could be awash with cheap Australian yeast spread, could kill the domestic market for Marmite. Edited June 17, 2020 by smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said: Wow, let me at them Tim Tam Scooby snacks. FFS. Yeah it makes complete and uttter sense to trade with those on the other side of the world flying biscuits around the planet than your nearest neighbours. No wonder the Earth is fcked. Edited June 17, 2020 by MonsieurCopperCrutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 27 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: Everybody knew that in 2016 - but here we are. Like a cat stuck up a tree and somebody reasoning on the ground "of course logically it'll just trot back down..." However, he must have said that to some purpose - he is a negotiator. Perhaps he isn't 'explaining' but telling us that we have to burn our cards and accept what America deals out, like an extra nudge by somebody's foot on your throat (+ don't forget the Huawei + Hong Kong situations). That might sound a stupid position to be in but thats what the governments' leave base - albeit starting to fracture a little - has been groomed to demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Dave Beans said: Just more than twice? We are at a crossroads... the reality of the economic tradeoff beckons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppie Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 2 hours ago, IMHAL said: Just more than twice? We are at a crossroads... the reality of the economic tradeoff beckons. I cannot express how much you British people make us laugh with your stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 3 hours ago, poppie said: I cannot express how much you British people make us laugh with your stupidity. Don't worry poppie.... we are teaming up with rogue America... what could go wrong? I use the word 'teaming up' in the loosest of sense.... we'll be at the top table alright, sitting at the heel of the president as he pats our forehead and feeds us the occasional scrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) A news report in that esteemed magazine The Absolute Truth - Or Whatever said this: "At three o'clock yesterday afternoon the US trade representative Theodore "Let's Just Screw 'Em" Ponsonby excused himself from trade negotiations with the UK to go to the toilet; the lunch time langoustines did not agree with him apparently. Remainers have long said that when the US trade representative excuses himself to go to the toilet then that is a sure sign that the US is no longer interested in a trade agreement and that the whole Brexit project is a failure and so now it appears that the final proof is in and Brexit has indeed been a failure and indeed cannot be anything else. Who would have thought at the beginning of all this that success or failure rested on a toilet visit brought on by langoustines? Certanly not your humble reporter and it is perhaps a delicious irony and poetic justice that a food associated with Europe should be the instrument of the downfall of the hubristic ambitions of the UK" Edited June 18, 2020 by crouch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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