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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.


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23 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

...but on the other hand, we cannot remain either...If you think we can, ignore the referendum result, and hope that Brexit will just go away...It won't...The genie is out of the proverbial bottle..

Of course we can. Hold a 2nd referendum and let everyone vote, including those who voted leave previously.

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11 hours ago, Huggy said:

Scotland and NI would need to leave the UK first. Then they could do whatever they damn well pleased. Now, they're tied to the UK, but they could take back control if you will.

One EU country voting to leave something couldn’t force another EU county to leave. Why should one UK country force another UK country into something?

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4 hours ago, crouch said:

I would not dispute this although I do believe that some of the losses to date are postponements rather than losses.

And I wouldn't dispute this either.

That assumes that economic reasons are the only ones that count and they are paramount. They aren't and they aren't.

The problem with this argument is that many of the advantages are abstract whereas many of the losses are real. But to  assume that the abstract isn't important is short sighted; after all freedom is an abstract notion but to most people that is important. If you asked most people which is more important: a guaranteed income but you had to stay in the same place and do as you were told for the rest of your life or - the freedom to change your occupation and move around freely I suspect most would choose the latter.

 

Good.

Than Leavers won't mind another 10 years of austerity? More foodbanks, less NHS, poorer education, more crappy jobs, more HPI, more crime, greater inequality.

The whole point of Brexit is to make life shittier. Nothing to do with money. Good call.

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1 hour ago, dugsbody said:

How can any reasonable person think that the correct form of action is just to concede defeat to ideologies they think are dangerous or despicable? The leave campaign was run on lies, obfuscation and blame against the other. All ideologies that have in the past been associated with great atrocities.

You think that because you won a popular vote I should just concede and say, ok, you used whatever means necessary to get your ideology through, so now I'll support you?

I know your answer to that is "yes" because you've previously admitted that the end justifies the means.

I'm completely stumped how people can be so morally bankrupt.

It was a free vote; and shit was done by both sides. That’s politics.

Let’s not forget Cameron extending the deadline for voter reg (to get more young votes) and using taxpayer money on a Remain leaflet sent to every household.

You lost. Like England in the RWC final. It sucks; but then you suck it up and move on.

My morals are granite strong and laser straight.

You are just a sad loser.

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13 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

It was a free vote; and shit was done by both sides. That’s politics.

Let’s not forget Cameron extending the deadline for voter reg (to get more young votes) and using taxpayer money on a Remain leaflet sent to every household.

You lost. Like England in the RWC final. It sucks; but then you suck it up and move on.

My morals are granite strong and laser straight.

You are just a sad loser.

Exactly. I still remember Osborne on telly in the run-up to the vote claiming that if leave won, he'd have to force through an emergency budget the next day that would put 3% on the rate of income tax.

Edited by dpg50000
Edit for typo
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57 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

...but on the other hand, we cannot remain either...If you think we can, ignore the referendum result, and hope that Brexit will just go away...It won't...The genie is out of the proverbial bottle..

Agreed. But that doesn't obligate me to just accept that this is how things should work. I don't want to live in a country where anything goes to get the result you want. Madness.

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22 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

It was a free vote; and shit was done by both sides. That’s politics.

Let’s not forget Cameron extending the deadline for voter reg (to get more young votes) and using taxpayer money on a Remain leaflet sent to every household.

You lost. Like England in the RWC final. It sucks; but then you suck it up and move on.

My morals are granite strong and laser straight.

You are just a sad loser.

You are incapable of understanding. 

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Just now, Dave Beans said:

So if you agree to that, what would be the most sensible way forward?

There is no sensible way forward. This isn't a fantasy where there is always a happy path out of a situation. The referendum was terribly constructed and has broken our country for the next decade or few.

What might have been sensible is a slow unwinding and pause to check that the course is still the one we want. But the way the referendum was run, the way the leave campaign stoked up raw tribal emotions and stirred up hatred has precluded.

Therefore the country will remain broken for a long, long time, regardless if we leave or stay.

So I might as well fight for the path that I think is better.

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38 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Good.

Than Leavers won't mind another 10 years of austerity? More foodbanks, less NHS, poorer education, more crappy jobs, more HPI, more crime, greater inequality.

The whole point of Brexit is to make life shittier. Nothing to do with money. Good call.

If people are so omniscient that they can see the future so clearly then they are capable of avoiding the worst outcomes you mention  in which case you are wrong.

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7 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

There is no sensible way forward. This isn't a fantasy where there is always a happy path out of a situation. The referendum was terribly constructed and has broken our country for the next decade or few.

What might have been sensible is a slow unwinding and pause to check that the course is still the one we want. But the way the referendum was run, the way the leave campaign stoked up raw tribal emotions and stirred up hatred has precluded.

Therefore the country will remain broken for a long, long time, regardless if we leave or stay.

So I might as well fight for the path that I think is better.

So give me the positive spin on why we should remain...remain couldn't, during the referendum (barring the economic side)...

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5 minutes ago, crouch said:

If people are so omniscient that they can see the future so clearly then they are capable of avoiding the worst outcomes you mention  in which case you are wrong.

Taking the fact there is absolutely zero vision or plan for the UK after Brexit - why should I assume any change?

I am a remainer and voted thus because nobody could convince me there were any benefits to Brexit.

It's up to leavers to sell me their view of how Brexit is going to make things better.

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Edited by jonb2
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4 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

So give me the positive spin on why we should remain...remain couldn't, during the referendum (barring the economic side)...

I've done it before. Feel free to search this thread for my post.

Many, many, many people posted the positives of remaining before the vote. They were ignored.

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10 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Why don't you post more images of young men going to die on beaches and claim it shows how brexit is good?

That's the type of thing you do.

Show me one post where I make that connection. One post...

You think you have the moral high ground.

You think you are better than leave voters. You’re a pathetic anti-democrat.

 

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18 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Taking the fact there is absolutely zero vision or plan for the UK after Brexit - why should I assume any change?

The Soviet Union had  a vision and a plan for everything. Whoops!

19 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

I am a remainer and voted thus because nobody could convince me there were any benefits to Brexit.

I failed my GCSE in convincing so can't help you here. But I recommend cold baths.

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10 minutes ago, crouch said:

The Soviet Union had  a vision and a plan for everything. Whoops!

I failed my GCSE in convincing so can't help you here. But I recommend cold baths.

Glad you mentioned Russia.

The centre for crony oligarchs. Oppressive of the population. Murders and false imprisoning of political opponents. Rampaging propaganda as a science. Abject poverty. Elections based on lies and coercion. One of the richest men on earth in charge. Domestic violence not punished. Gay bashing. State sponsored corporate raiding. Law and order breakdown.

We've got a lot to look forward to.

You have no material for convincing anybody.

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