Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
GreenDevil

Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

I spend a lot of time in France. My French friends don't think any less of us, the people, but they don't think much of BJ..... "he is crazy man" they say with an understanding smile. 

What do they think of the banker`s stooge running their own country?

Edited by dances with sheeple

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

I'm hoping that whatever deal Labour may strike with the EU will be voted down, in favour of remain, in the promised confirmatory referendum.

 

More likely that if JC scrapes in but there are strong numbers for Leave EVERYTHING  will get voted down before it happens  and we get No Deal which will be a spectacle worth seeing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, jonb2 said:

We were.

Publicly, where we are now, compared to the great optimism of 2016, is the distance to the sun and probably beyond as things unfold (unravels?).

Privately, in distance terms, the elites 'running' Brexit are just round the corner in getting what they always wanted.

It's coming home.

Nah, the "optimism" was that the politicians would do what they were told, that has just turned to anger that the politicians didn`t do what they were told, nothing to do with wanting to just run back to the EU because Brexit is "too difficult" :lol: People know who is blocking us leaving and they will vote accordingly IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, crouch said:

I haven't made myself clear. "Government" includes the senior civil service. On a day to day basis the EU interfaces not with the clowns at Westminster but the senior representatives such as Sir Ivan Rogers. Although these people do not ultimately make policy they are the normal "face" of the government and these people are there as a permanent cadre.

I thought they were the enemies of the people ? Aren't they meant to be resigning or being sacked ?

10 hours ago, crouch said:

BJ is a clown and certainly not my choice of PM, or anything for that matter, but you can lay too much stress on personalities.

I like it ! The future, the PM don't exist. Feeling much happier already :) 

10 hours ago, crouch said:

Not at all. But if you choose to see conspiracies everywhere fine.

Lol ...do you mean your global security agencies coordinating fantasy secrets conspiracy ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, dances with sheeple said:

More likely that if JC scrapes in but there are strong numbers for Leave EVERYTHING  will get voted down before it happens  and we get No Deal which will be a spectacle worth seeing.

No different to the Torys then. A vote for them is a vote for no deal, why else is the ERG so happy to support the rehashed TM deal that they hated so much?

I am almost wanting it to happen now, the spectacle will be a sight to behold. Either utterly brilliant as leave promised or utterly awful as remain promised.

Either happy with my error of judgement or happy to be correct, win win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, pig said:

I thought they were the enemies of the people ? Aren't they meant to be resigning or being sacked ?

You've been reading too much fake news.

9 hours ago, pig said:

I like it ! The future, the PM don't exist. Feeling much happier already :) 

Good! Something positive pierces the gloom.

9 hours ago, pig said:

Lol ...do you mean your global security agencies coordinating fantasy secrets conspiracy ?

I'm not usually a fan of conspiracy theories.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, thehowler said:

Guess you weren't around when our politicians took us into disastrous wars that cost lives. I know it's fashionable to paint Boris as supreme evil but it's hokum, he's a lightweight compared to previous PMs.

But BJ is showing great potential in this respect (a liar and deceitful toad)...and it is early days for him yet with 120 days in office. The price to pay for and during the process of forging a US trade deal will be complete obedience and loyalty to Trump.... I am sure that will not come at zero cost. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, thehowler said:

Guess you weren't around when our politicians took us into disastrous wars that cost lives. I know it's fashionable to paint Boris as supreme evil but it's hokum, he's a lightweight compared to previous PMs.

Boris is self serving and a liar.  I don’t think any other PM in my lifetime has been more so.

Also, if he presided over bad social and NHS policy decisions that could easily claim the lives of more UK citizens than recent wars - far more people three days die on waiting lists than battlefields.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

But BJ is showing great potential in this respect (a liar and deceitful toad)...and it is early days for him yet with 120 days in office. The price to pay for and during the process of forging a US trade deal will be complete obedience and loyalty to Trump.... I am sure that will not come at zero cost. 

Have you not noticed the trade compromises the EU is already making with the US? Probably not, they receive very little press coverage in the UK. We've already got tariffs on metals, liquor etc, WTO ruling yesterday found against EU on subsidies for Airbus etc which could lead to more punitive US tariffs, there's talk of new tariffs - 100% on champagne - against France over the new digital tax and the long-standing auto tariff issue is still unresolved.

The EU is slowly working towards new trade arrangements with the US, this is something we'll have to face even if we were part of the bloc. But it doesn't suit the bogeyman US/UK trade deal narrative.

In other news, I see the NHS leaked report that Labour brandished is now thought to have been released by Russian hackers/sources...

Gruniad, ref only...

Leaked documents said by Labour to prove that the NHS was “on the table” in trade talks with the US were initially disseminated online by anonymous posters operating in a way similar to a Russian information operation known as Secondary Infektion, according to a social media research firm.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/02/nhs-cache-leak-first-circulated-online-by-group-similar-to-russian-operation

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, thehowler said:

Have you not noticed the trade compromises the EU is already making with the US? Probably not, they receive very little press coverage in the UK. We've already got tariffs on metals, liquor etc, WTO ruling yesterday found against EU on subsidies for Airbus etc which could lead to more punitive US tariffs, there's talk of new tariffs - 100% on champagne - against France over the new digital tax and the long-standing auto tariff issue is still unresolved.

The EU is slowly working towards new trade arrangements with the US, this is something we'll have to face even if we were part of the bloc. But it doesn't suit the bogeyman US/UK trade deal narrative.

In other news, I see the NHS leaked report that Labour brandished is now thought to have been released by Russian hackers/sources...

Gruniad, ref only...

Leaked documents said by Labour to prove that the NHS was “on the table” in trade talks with the US were initially disseminated online by anonymous posters operating in a way similar to a Russian information operation known as Secondary Infektion, according to a social media research firm.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/02/nhs-cache-leak-first-circulated-online-by-group-similar-to-russian-operation

 

That is all part of the horse trading that goes with any trade deal, nothing to do with any narrative....no one is naive enough to think this won't happen in any event. The issue is one of negotiating power, and desperation. We have less power outside the EU and we will be in a weak negotiating position. This will have direct consequences on how we will proceed with any US FTA...what we are willing to do in exchange for consessions...within the boundaries of trade and outside of them (ie foreign affairs). 

What I am talking about is the type of loyalty and obedience that we will have to show the US to secure a better trade deal. BJ does not seem the type of person who will resist stepping over any red lines.... you may think differently...but he has form in this respect. I see our future as fully alligned with, aiding and abetting the US in its foreign endeavours and other US strategic initiatives... two systems one nation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

Boris is self serving and a liar.  I don’t think any other PM in my lifetime has been more so.

Also, if he presided over bad social and NHS policy decisions that could easily claim the lives of more UK citizens than recent wars - far more people three days die on waiting lists than battlefields.

You trusted Cameron then, and didn't think he was self serving? Right.

You think Blair had just cause to go into Iraq?

You agreed with the Falklands war?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

That is all part of the horse trading that goes with any trade deal, nothing to do with any narrative....no one is naive enough to think this won't happen in any event. The issue is one of negotiating power, and desperation. We have less power outside the EU and we will be in a weak negotiating position. This will have direct consequences on how we will proceed with any US FTA...what we are willing to do in exchange for consessions...within the boundaries of trade and outside of them (ie foreign affairs).

Can you explain to me how being part of the EU helped Scottish single malt whisky producers, who are now paying a 25% US tariff? That seems to me, to directly contradict the thrust of your argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, thehowler said:

You trusted Cameron then, and didn't think he was self serving? Right.

You think Blair had just cause to go into Iraq?

You agreed with the Falklands war?

I did trust Cameron..... Big mistake! Lying scumbag, cut from the same cloth as BJ.

I saw right through Blair (the model on which all subsequent PM have based themselves) and couldn't understand how others didn't.

At the time I agreed with the Falklands war, but I was but a child (early 30s).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, thehowler said:

Can you explain to me how being part of the EU helped Scottish single malt whisky producers, who are now paying a 25% US tariff? That seems to me, to directly contradict the thrust of your argument.

Don't waste time on minutia. This election is all about Brexit.

To those who want to remain in the EU, first things first, vote tactically to get BJ and his cronies out.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/new-research-finds-tactical-voting-could-wipe-out-conservative-majority-on-12-december/02/12/#.XeUYPaqKLVk.twitter

https://www.remainunited.org/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bruce Banner said:

Don't waste time on minutia. This election is all about Brexit.

To those who want to remain in the EU, first things first, vote tactically to get BJ and his cronies out.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/new-research-finds-tactical-voting-could-wipe-out-conservative-majority-on-12-december/02/12/#.XeUYPaqKLVk.twitter

https://www.remainunited.org/

It's not minutiae if you're a whisky producer. Anyway, in terms of trade and origin protections, Brexit is the minutiae and there's no getting around it.

My point stands, EU membership didn't afford Scots whisky producers any protection against US tariffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, thehowler said:

It's not minutiae if you're a whisky producer. Anyway, in terms of trade and origin protections, Brexit is the minutiae and there's no getting around it.

My point stands, EU membership didn't afford Scots whisky producers any protection against US tariffs.

Obfuscation is the order of the day ;).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bruce Banner said:

Obfuscation is the order of the day ;).

You intervened on a discussion about US/UK trade with your habitual tactical vote affirmation slogan...where is the obfuscation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, thehowler said:

Can you explain to me how being part of the EU helped Scottish single malt whisky producers, who are now paying a 25% US tariff? That seems to me, to directly contradict the thrust of your argument.

The real question is how much worse would it be if the US decided to introduce sanctions when we are the sole focus of their attention for not doing their bidding.

There is no contradiction to my arguement. We will be under huge pressure from the US to cooperate in all matters foreign and strategic, like it or not, and we will have little to offer in terms of resistance.

The general thrust was to do with BJ and if he is a saint compared to other PM's. I think he will be worse because that is the situation we will be placing ourselves in. Look no further than Trump and his behaviour towards Ukraine and his bid to get them to do his political dirty work.

Edited by IMHAL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At home or abroad, Trump is becoming radioactive.

You're not even safe standing in his shadow.

https://news.yahoo.com/u-president-trump-says-boris-095440063.html

Quote

Donald Trump had promised to “stay out” of the UK’s general election campaigning during this week’s visit to London — but he then immediately backed both Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Brexit.

Speaking to reporters on the first day of his visit to the UK for a two-day meeting of NATO leaders, the infamously opinionated president was asked why he hadn’t commented on next week’s vote.

He replied: “Because I don’t want to complicate it. I’ll stay out of the election.”

Trump then immediately complicated things by adding: “I think Boris [Johnson] is very capable and I think he’ll do a good job.

“You know that I was a fan of Brexit. I called it the day before.”

Trump did show a measure of restraint, however, when asked if he could work with Jeremy Corbyn should opposition party Labour win the general election.

The president replied: “I can work with anybody. I’m a very easy person to work with.”

Trump also emphatically denied the U.S. is seeking to open up Britain’s National Health Service to American competition, fears raised by a set of leaked papers revealed by Labour last week, but also appeared to be confused about what has been suggested.

The U.S. government has already expressed a desire to open up UK markets to American drug companies, but Trump made it sound like the entire NHS was for sale.

He said: “We have absolutely nothing to do with it and we wouldn’t want to if you handed it to us on a silver platter. We want nothing to do with it.”

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

The real question is how much worse would it be if the US decided to introduce sanctions when we are the sole focus of their attention for not doing their bidding.

There is no con.tradiction to my arguement. We will be under huge pressure from the US to cooperate in all matters foreign and strategic, like it or not, and we will have little to offer in terms of resistance.

The thrust concerned was to do with BJ and if he is a saint compared to other PM's. I think he will be worse because that is the situation we will be placing ourselves in.

You've obviously been living on another planet since WW11. Why do you think we withdrew from Suez in 1956? Because it was too hot? It was because of US pressure and that was the point at which our pretensions to being a great, independent power were quashed.

The EU was in its antecedents largely a US creation; it was said that Robert Schuman's speech founding the ECSC was largely written by Dean Acheson, the US Secretary of State.

We've been very much influenced by the US since the last war so there's nothing new here.

As regards trade you seem to think that if we have no trade agreement there will be no trade. There are no trade agreements between the EU and China and the US. Does this means there's no trade? Hardly; the US imports $340 bn and exports $ 79 bn from/to China . Trade occurs because of mutual advantage and there is mutual advantage even in a relationship that appears lopsided.

Edited by crouch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, crouch said:

You've obviously been living on another planet since WW11. Why do you think we withdrew from Suez in 1956? Because it was too hot? It was because of US pressure and that was the point at which our pretensions to being a great, independent power were quashed.

My point is we will have less leverage than we do now. Desperation will ensure it is the case.

4 minutes ago, crouch said:

The EU was in its antecedents largely a US creation; it was said that Robert Schuman's speech founding the ECSC was largely written by Dean Acheson, the US Secretary of State.

We've been very much influenced by the US since the last war so there's nothing new here.

And you, obviously, want us to fall under their influence even more. Trump lover you must be.

4 minutes ago, crouch said:

As regards trade you seem to think that if we have no trade agreement there will be no trade. There are no trade agreements between the EU and China and the US. Does this means there's no trade? Hardly; the US imports $340 bn and exports $ 79 bn . Trade occurs because of mutual advantage and there is mutual advantage even in a relationship that appears lopsided.

You said that, not me. Your black and white world again. We are running a surplus with the USA, they will want to claw some of that back.... it's pretty obvious to most, except to you of course.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, thehowler said:

Can you explain to me how being part of the EU helped Scottish single malt whisky producers, who are now paying a 25% US tariff? That seems to me, to directly contradict the thrust of your argument.

Why would you have expected it to, those tariffs were imposed as part of an ongoing WTO trade dispute process.  The items that tariffs were applied on were selected to cause exactly the reaction you have demonstrated.

The USA's support for Brexit is purely aimed at weakening a competing trade block so that it can achieve more favourable "America First" trade terms, it's strange that you seem to think this is in the UK's interest. 

NB Next year the WTO will rule on tariffs that can be applied by the EU in respect of illegal state subsidies received by Boeing after which both sides will hopefully net off the tariffs and settle this long running dispute..        

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.