jonb2 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 33 minutes ago, thehowler said: McDonnell raised a complaint with the civil service and they instructed the Treasury not to produce/publish the assumptive costing. Are you saying that is not the case? I'm only going on what McDonnell has briefed to the Gruniad. The oppo agreed to the suspension of Parliament, AFAIK. And everything else you cite is just the normal governmental use of power - to maximise political advantage, it has ever been the way. No it has not been always this way. It's 10x worse. I've posted this link recently. The quality of our politics is heading like an express train towards the gutter. Just check the growth in frequency in the last couple of decades alone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_the_United_Kingdom You have said you want better leaders and some here argue that was the point of Brexit. A better system, or 'rock the Cashbah' . But if you and some others here keep with the toe-licking courtier's excuse for the Tories, you are having much longer momentary lapses of reason. What's happening is real banana republic behaviour and shows an absolute contempt for the people. Stop forgiving these people. It simply fecks the country more than it is already. People like Johnson only exist for themselves and they want a bigger playground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Breaking news on Sky... Labour Party says it has experienced a "sophisticated and large scale cyber attack" on it's digital platforms". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlooker Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, thehowler said: McDonnell raised a complaint with the civil service and they instructed the Treasury not to produce/publish the assumptive costing. Are you saying that is not the case? I'm only going on what McDonnell has briefed to the Gruniad. The oppo agreed to the suspension of Parliament, AFAIK. And everything else you cite is just the normal governmental use of power - to maximise political advantage, it has ever been the way. A story doing the rounds is that the Govt / Treasury stopped publication of a costing of Labour's proposals as it was feared it would cause a run on the £. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said: Breaking news on Sky... Labour Party says it has experienced a "sophisticated and large scale cyber attack" on it's digital platforms". GCHQ and the NSA up to their usual dirty tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy T Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, IMHAL said: . Don't know how much his house is worth but I have a friend in Watford in the tiniest of terraces and that is over 1/2 million.So I imaging his little house, actually in London, is worth a large proportion of his net worth. Corbyn's ugly little terrace is in Islington, I'm sure a few years ago it was worth about £1 million.. bet he only paid tens of £1000's for it. A prime example of how ridiculous London property has become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, Andy T said: Corbyn's ugly little terrace is in Islington, I'm sure a few years ago it was worth about £1 million.. bet he only paid tens of £1000's for it. A prime example of how ridiculous London property has become. Quite agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 And still we get Tory talking heads saying that "the public just want Brexit done". No they don't. Remainers want to remain, not "get Brexit done". Hilarious nonsence all this. 17.4 million isn't enough to "get Brexit done". The Tories are going to go down the tubes with this election imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Wall to wall ads for commemorative coins with rousing patriotic anthems.... Brexit related?..... or coincidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebbles Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Social Justice League said: And still we get Tory talking heads saying that "the public just want Brexit done". No they don't. Remainers want to remain, not "get Brexit done". Hilarious nonsence all this. 17.4 million isn't enough to "get Brexit done". The Tories are going to go down the tubes with this election imo. This is the reason I will probably have to vote tory despite me despising them. If remainers had implemented the 2016 referendum i could enthusiastically get behind a Jeremy Corbyn manifesto. All i wanted was democracy to be respected in 2016 decision made then get on with issues with the referendum respected. The number of red old school Labour Leavers voting blue this time is sad (yes i remember Thatcher and this is the same party) because the remainer metropolitan side just don't want to accept the 2016 referendum result. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cica Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Social Justice League said: And still we get Tory talking heads saying that "the public just want Brexit done". No they don't. Remainers want to remain, not "get Brexit done". Hilarious nonsence all this. 17.4 million isn't enough to "get Brexit done". The Tories are going to go down the tubes with this election imo. It's not the 17.4 million. We're at second reading of the withdrawal agreement after all the parliamentary support and scrutiny. No idea what comes next though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 hours ago, jonb2 said: You have said you want better leaders and some here argue that was the point of Brexit. A better system, or 'rock the Cashbah' . Cash bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 hours ago, thehowler said: McDonnell raised a complaint with the civil service and they instructed the Treasury not to produce/publish the assumptive costing. Are you saying that is not the case? I'm only going on what McDonnell has briefed to the Gruniad. The oppo agreed to the suspension of Parliament, AFAIK. And everything else you cite is just the normal governmental use of power - to maximise political advantage, it has ever been the way. So er...you can't see what they have in common lol ? Of course McDonnell raised a complaint with the civil service - what is your point ? Are you claiming McDonnell abused his power over the Treasury ? (btw Imho the Treasury debacle was a political stunt - an SM hit and run. The government wasn't bothered whether the Treasury actually ran through the numbers...) And guess what, the Supreme Court ruled proroguing Parliament unlawful, the opposition (and countries) view was that it was simply to attempt to silence Parliament (and/or be seen to by Leavers). As for the others - what do you think a neutral observer would conclude on government efforts to delay/suppress prudent reporting circling the legitimacy of its policies ? Assuming you're not simply a Tory fanatic on magic mushrooms you are clearly being deliberately obtuse.... ...and I note your 'Tory justification by induction' excuse: glad you implicitly agree these abuses of power are to maximise political advantage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 hours ago, jonb2 said: No it has not been always this way. It's 10x worse. I've posted this link recently. The quality of our politics is heading like an express train towards the gutter. Just check the growth in frequency in the last couple of decades alone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_the_United_Kingdom You have said you want better leaders and some here argue that was the point of Brexit. A better system, or 'rock the Cashbah' . But if you and some others here keep with the toe-licking courtier's excuse for the Tories, you are having much longer momentary lapses of reason. What's happening is real banana republic behaviour and shows an absolute contempt for the people. Stop forgiving these people. It simply fecks the country more than it is already. People like Johnson only exist for themselves and they want a bigger playground. I'm not forgiving anyone. I just don't buy your line that it's all worse now than it was under Thatcher - IRA Gibraltar shootings, Falklands, Miners' Strike violence and destruction of whole communities, Poll Tax etc - John Major's 'back to basics' series of cabinet scandals or Blair taking us into horrific wars. We're not in recession, we're not at war, Boris hasn't taken refuge in Mexico and you even get the chance to vote him out in the next few weeks if you don't like him. But you've been insisting we're doomed for the last three years and I don't imagine anything I say will make much difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, pig said: So er...you can't see what they have in common lol ? Of course McDonnell raised a complaint with the civil service - what is your point ? Are you claiming McDonnell abused his power over the Treasury ? (btw Imho the Treasury debacle was a political stunt - an SM hit and run. The government wasn't bothered whether the Treasury actually ran through the numbers...) And guess what, the Supreme Court ruled proroguing Parliament unlawful, the opposition (and countries) view was that it was simply to attempt to silence Parliament (and/or be seen to by Leavers). As for the others - what do you think a neutral observer would conclude on government efforts to delay/suppress prudent reporting circling the legitimacy of its policies ? Assuming you're not simply a Tory fanatic on magic mushrooms you are clearly being deliberately obtuse.... ...and I note your 'Tory justification by induction' excuse: glad you implicitly agree these abuses of power are to maximise political advantage Er, yes, I can see what your claims have in common and I keep saying it. It's the govt screwing us over, pig, making use of the machinery of power. All govts do it. I think a neutral observer would conclude it's business as usual. Nothing implicit about it. I have been clear throughout this turgid discussion that the govt is using its powers to seek maximum political advantage. I don't forgive or applaud the govt, I simply recognize that if they want to hold the report, they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, thehowler said: I'm not forgiving anyone. I just don't buy your line that it's all worse now than it was under Thatcher - IRA Gibraltar shootings, Falklands, Miners' Strike violence and destruction of whole communities, Poll Tax etc - John Major's 'back to basics' series of cabinet scandals or Blair taking us into horrific wars. We're not in recession, we're not at war, Boris hasn't taken refuge in Mexico and you even get the chance to vote him out in the next few weeks if you don't like him. But you've been insisting we're doomed for the last three years and I don't imagine anything I say will make much difference. Let's review the evidence. Even after ten years of emergency interest rates the UK's private sector finances have barely improved i.e. they're as bad as they've been in 350 years. The UK's public sector finances are the worst they've been since 1941. Promises to deliver a balanced budget in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 were never met... and here we are in 2019 with the deficit blowing up uncontrollably again. An entire decade and >£1.3 trillion has been squandered on maintaining the bubble of phantom equity in the housing market, or else on useless vanity projects like HS2, Crossrail and the London Olympics. The Tories' promise to build 200,000 starter homes in 2015 was as empty as every other they've made. One in ten rental properties is foreign owned. Moody's is about to issue another downgrade to the UK's creditworthiness. So maybe we have another ten years to put the country on a sustainable debt trajectory, or maybe we go bust first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 10 hours ago, Kosmin said: UKIP supports Johnson's deal https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/ukip-mocked-for-not-fielding-full-slate-of-general-election-candidates-1-6369457 Crikey. 2 weeks ago WTO Brexit was nailed on, now it's dead as a doornail without so much as a murmur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Dorkins said: Crikey. 2 weeks ago WTO Brexit was nailed on, now it's dead as a doornail without so much as a murmur. Couldn't it still happen if the Conservatives are forced to form a coalition with the Brexit Party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) https://www.facebook.com/TheBrexitPartyMK/ https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/12/brexit-party-members-turn-nigel-farage-brands-11085453/ Edited November 12, 2019 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 4 hours ago, zugzwang said: Let's review the evidence. So maybe we have another ten years to put the country on a sustainable debt trajectory, or maybe we go bust first? Aye, we've been broke since the 70s. Since WW2 really. Debt and HPI was the new seam and that's played out now. Let's hope those cold fusion boffins are almost ready with the UK patent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 57 minutes ago, Dorkins said: Crikey. 2 weeks ago WTO Brexit was nailed on, now it's dead as a doornail without so much as a murmur. It'll be regurgitated next year after the Tories intentionally thwart the FTA negotiations. No deal in 2020 is firmly nailed on as this is what Boris has promised the ERG and Farage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Dave Beans said: https://www.facebook.com/TheBrexitPartyMK/ https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/12/brexit-party-members-turn-nigel-farage-brands-11085453/ Brexit is now like throwing dead fish in the water. Dead fish is dead fish, whatever your expectations and assurances are. Bye bye, happy landing dead fish. Bye bye, Brexit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Whether we leave or remain or secure a new people's vote......the answer or result lies with the North, the very people that over the years have been neglected in so many areas before....the ball will be in their court.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, rollover said: Brexit is now like throwing dead fish in the water. Dead fish is dead fish, whatever your expectations and assurances are. Bye bye, happy landing dead fish. Bye bye, Brexit! Brexit will happen one way or another. Its just a shame its turned into a culture war...rather than something sensible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: Brexit will happen one way or another. Its just a shame its turned into a culture war...rather than something sensible... Brexit, as it was promised, is undeliverable. Even Nigel Farage knows that and rather stepped aside. What make you so confident? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, rollover said: Brexit, as it was promised, is undeliverable. Even Nigel Farage knows that and rather stepped aside. What make you so confident? If the Tories somehow manage to lose, and say the Lib Dems get in and revoke A50 - that's job done for them...What else would they stand for? They think (like Labour) that all can carry on as normal...The 2016 was just a bad dream to them.. Whereas those who voted to leave would simmer and seethe in the background, and in the next election, they will come together, and get a party in (a Brexit Party type party, but more organised) which could form a majority government. They will then yank the 1972 European Communities Act. The issue isn't going away.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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