Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.


Recommended Posts

Just now, crouch said:

I think the die is cast. Even if we stay in the EU due to finagling there's two ways this will play out: we'll leave after another few years and it will be for good or: the EU itself will change so that we are a "fit" with it.

The UK  has never been a "fit" with the EU as currently constituted; we were lied to on an industrial scale prior to our accession in 1973 and we would never have joined if the truth had come out. 

The UK will break up.  Job done.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 147.7k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • GrizzlyDave

    9502

  • Confusion of VIs

    7780

  • thehowler

    5908

  • jonb2

    5816

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I do.   https://twitter.com/housepricemania

1409 pages....you guys should have your own forum !!!

Oh OK. Shame that really, but hey it looks like @IMHAL helped us both out. Nice repost though, thanks ! Any thoughts ?  

Posted Images

1 minute ago, jonb2 said:

Churchill was independently wealthy. Also, he had fought for his country.

Boris needs to whore himself out to the highest bidder

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/channel-four-tories-at-war-crispin-odey-1-6283173

But he did keep some money back for tea, crumpets and tarts

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49794693

So here we are, Leavers voting for even more of the same corruption and greed that pervades British politics. Good work. Oh, and don't forget the destruction of the UK too.

I am preparing the ""I told you so" merchandise catalogue.

Mugs, T-shirts, full size flags and ringtones to be used as constant reminders for the next few decades.

Don't invest your life's wealth in that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, crouch said:

Churchill was on the financial rocks most of his life.

I think we are both right. He went through a period of heavy debt as a young man - it appears he was a spendthrift. His early years were always indebted - but as things went on he did much better - getting a $5 million bequest from a relative. He certainly didn't die in debt either - he left $7 million.

https://www.churchillcentral.com/how-much-is-winston-churchills-net-worth/

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, crouch said:

I think the die is cast. Even if we stay in the EU due to finagling there's two ways this will play out: we'll leave after another few years and it will be for good or: the EU itself will change so that we are a "fit" with it.

The UK  has never been a "fit" with the EU as currently constituted; we were lied to on an industrial scale prior to our accession in 1973 and we would never have joined if the truth had come out. 

Totally agree. I'm all for working together, just not under this structure.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, allfiredup said:

That's another quality of the Brits, we listen to the people, something the Europeans are taking a long time to learn.

No wrong. The European countries do listen to their people; it's the EU that doesn't hence the "vote until you get it right" instruction sent out from the Head Office and Cultural Purity Bureau aka the Commission.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, crouch said:

No wrong. The European countries do listen to their people; it's the EU that doesn't hence the "vote until you get it right" instruction sent out from the Head Office and Cultural Purity Bureau aka the Commission.

OK point taken, but did the national governments do enough to support their people? i don't know.

Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

It’s true though.  It’s not enough just to accept the result; Remainers are excepted to renounce their opinions and stop arguing in favour of what they believe is right for the country.

It's sophistry, part of the language some remainers have adopted in their determined struggle to delay and negate the result.

I understand why. Many of them feel the unifying ambitions and achievements of the EU are right for the UK and sit at the very core of their sense of self. They will use any means at their disposal - and they are rich and powerful voices - to challenge and resist the result.

But I fear the impetus and inexorability of a no-deal Brexit only grows stronger - and potentially more damaging for the UK -  the more well-intentioned remainers bend their strength against it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

I'd certainly favour a more federal UK, with more self-determination for Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

Who was going on about the English moving in to Wales and saying that's what resulted in a pro-Leave vote from Wales? Wasn't me who brought that up.

Nope.

Nobody was 'complaining about the English moving into Wales and influencing things' that's entirely your Freudian slip.

The point is simply that from this research it looks like Brexit is mainly an English issue. Its not about 'blaming' the English, but it does beg the question of what is going on with the English (or certain types of).

If English Leavers are so keen to play the nationalist game then its of course problematic that all the other UK nations did not vote for Brexit - and that's not 'ironic' that's more like full on hypocrisy.  

Perhaps that explains the keenness to wrap Brexit in 'northern victimhood' ....

Quote

 

Dorling’s research, which was presented at the British Science Association’s annual meeting at Warwick University, also suggested that most of the UK’s leave votes did come not from the north of England but the south, with the highest numbers in areas populated with affluent older people...

“The real support for Brexit, in terms of numbers of votes, was in places like Cornwall, which was 57% for leave, Hampshire with 54%, Essex with 62% and Norfolk with 57%. It is those southern English voters that are dragging Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland unwillingly out of Europe.

“Everyone blames Wigan and Stoke for Brexit but we should really be blaming Cornwall and Devon.”


 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/22/english-people-wales-brexit-research

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, allfiredup said:

OK point taken, but did the national governments do enough to support their people? i don't know.

Look "the project" is what matters; the EU is at heart non-democratic. Why? Because it was designed that way! Democracy and people get in the way of action so - you eliminate them but do so in a way that people don't notice. That has been the MO of the EU ever since its inception.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, thehowler said:

It's sophistry, part of the language some remainers have adopted in their determined struggle to delay and negate the result.

I understand why. Many of them feel the unifying ambitions and achievements of the EU are right for the UK and sit at the very core of their sense of self. They will use any means at their disposal - and they are rich and powerful voices - to challenge and resist the result.

But I fear the impetus and inexorability of a no-deal Brexit only grows stronger - and potentially more damaging for the UK -  the more well-intentioned remainers bend their strength against it.

Well you can cleanly break something in two and have nice smooth edges or you can keep pulling and pulling until it breaks apart and leaves a mess.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, pig said:

Nope.

Nobody was 'complaining about the English moving into Wales and influencing things' that's entirely your Freudian slip.

The point is simply that from this research it looks like Brexit is mainly an English issue. Its not about 'blaming' the English, but it does beg the question of what is going on with the English (or certain types of).

If English Leavers are so keen to play the nationalist game then its of course problematic that all the other UK nations did not vote for Brexit - and that's not 'ironic' that's more like full on hypocrisy.  

Perhaps that explains the keenness to wrap Brexit in 'northern victimhood' ....

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/22/english-people-wales-brexit-research

It's not a 'nationalist game' , those are your words to try and put it down.

It's about us deciding our own destiny for many years to come, which is the same for the Scots and even the Northerner's.

England is not exactly one totally harmonious bunch, but we know how to defend our island together.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, allfiredup said:

It's not a 'nationalist game' , those are your words to try and put it down.

It's about us deciding our own destiny for many years to come, which is the same for the Scots and even the Northerner's.

England is not exactly one totally harmonious bunch, but we know how to defend our island together.

England isn’t an island.  Didn’t they teach geography in your school?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, allfiredup said:

Here we go, another pointless change in direction...

It’s pretty fundamental.  If your worldview is that we English are distinct from the Europeans because we are an island, the fact that there are other Europeans who are not us on the same island is a bit of a problem.  Not only that but there are other Europeans on another island even further away from the mainland.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

It’s pretty fundamental.  If your worldview is that we English are distinct from the Europeans because we are an island, the fact that there are other Europeans who are not us on the same island is a bit of a problem.  Not only that but there are other Europeans on another island even further away from the mainland.

We're leading the charge, that's all.

Also, don't confuse Europeans with the EU.

Edited by allfiredup
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, allfiredup said:

It's not a 'nationalist game' , those are your words to try and put it down.

It's about us deciding our own destiny for many years to come, which is the same for the Scots and even the Northerner's.

England is not exactly one totally harmonious bunch, but we know how to defend our island together.

Who is us? And who is sugar coating the perception of togetherness?

I’m afraid I disagree, but I understand where you are coming from.

Brexit and especially no deal extreme is forced on everyone by small group who will profit handsomely if it corporealizes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Brexit began with Britpop. Or the British invasion. It's the knowledge and acceptance that the empire is long gone - I think we're way past empire angst - but it's the uncertainty of knowing whether it's OK to be proud of the flag, national anthems, spitfires, past accomplishments, present glories and what kind of life you can expect in the isles etc.

It's about what it means to be English - but also about what it means to be Scots, Northern Irish and Welsh.

So Brexit is just part of the union reassessing things as we enter the middle age of the internet and the whole global village thing begins to feel a bit tired and salary-shrinking, modern-capitalism-isn't-working grubby.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, pig said:

If English Leavers are so keen to play the nationalist game then its of course problematic that all the other UK nations did not vote for Brexit - and that's not 'ironic' that's more like full on hypocrisy.  

Surely the polity is the UK, a polity made up of separate nations. Whilst those nations may be culturally distinct are they that distinct to the point where disintegration is a real possibility? Is there really a conflict between these nations that is the equivalent of, say, that between the Wallonia and Flanders in Belguim? Or, for that matter,  on a lesser scale, between North and South Italy? Or between East and West Germany? I can't see this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, rollover said:

Who is us? And who is sugar coating the perception of togetherness?

I’m afraid I disagree, but I understand where you are coming from.

Brexit and especially no deal extreme is forced on everyone by small group who will profit handsomely if it corporealizes.

The last 40 years has probably been Europe's most successful attempt for a 1000 years. Perhaps because its more of an infiltration as opposed to an invasion. This has caused many to not notice, plus we are now having to deal with the infiltrators themselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   1 member

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.