Fromage Frais Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 13 hours ago, zugzwang said: Olly Robbins cashes out. https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-uk-pm-mays-brexit-204239086.html? Ok So Goldman S gave a lot of money to remain and wanted remain. Robbins has been a career civil servant Robbins has been working on the plans for leaving the EU He goes right in there at managing director level 2000 - 400k He currently earns 165k ish with 10-20k bonus. So when you get these jobs in banks for 2-3 times your current salary are they payment for what you are going to do? or a thank you for what you have already done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fromage Frais said: Ok So Goldman S gave a lot of money to remain and wanted remain. Robbins has been a career civil servant Robbins has been working on the plans for leaving the EU He goes right in there at managing director level 2000 - 400k He currently earns 165k ish with 10-20k bonus. So when you get these jobs in banks for 2-3 times your current salary are they payment for what you are going to do? or a thank you for what you have already done? Three years after the referendum, the UK is still in the EU. This appointment is obviously a reward from the City of London for services rendered. The outcome could have been very different. Of course, Johnson and Cummings still have to finish the job and get a BRINO signed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump Invective Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Dominic Cummings to journalists on his doorstep: "You guys should get out of London. Go and talk to people who are not rich remainers." At least he admits he is rich, but I thought he was a leaver! Hoho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 52 minutes ago, Fromage Frais said: Ok So Goldman S gave a lot of money to remain and wanted remain. Robbins has been a career civil servant Robbins has been working on the plans for leaving the EU He goes right in there at managing director level 2000 - 400k He currently earns 165k ish with 10-20k bonus. So when you get these jobs in banks for 2-3 times your current salary are they payment for what you are going to do? or a thank you for what you have already done? £400k would be at the low end of the average pay for GS MDs and not much of a jump for someone working in the civil service at his level (his current package is worth just under £300k) moving into finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 hour ago, crouch said: I can't see where you get this from. it seems to me that culture is defined by language, law, custom and tradition, not something that takes place except insofar as actions are consistent with culture. Yes culture is bound up with identity and identity is something that contrasts with other identities. No that's a Boomer thing - 'culture'/value is for them is like an army flag or some certificate hung on the boardroom wall. 1 hour ago, crouch said: I'm saying that some of the features of the hunter/gatherer type groups survive in modern culture. The circumstances have changed and the exigencies of people today are not those of thousands of years ago. We hunt, we gather. We still compete, we still cooperate. Or we are fecked. 1 hour ago, crouch said: The "disgust" instinct by means of which the "other" is identified my be an echo of that earlier notion of group solidarity by differences enabling inclusion and exclusion. The "included" ensure their survival by mutual support by the development of cultural identifiers such as language, law, custom and tradition. Yep but that logic literally extends to fascism - note the etymology of the word. Better to get your head around culture as a lived experience and human cooperation and relations extending beyond primitive, superficially defined groupings - Leavers are not meant to be 'thick' nor quivering with fear on the edge of Europe and I can tell you my Saturday night Vietnamese dinner included a Leaver and a Portuguese lady complaining us English idiots got her husband drunk Now that's what I call culture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 21 minutes ago, pig said: Yep but that logic literally extends to fascism - note the etymology of the word. The logic may but history doesn't. If it did why is fascism such an outlier? 22 minutes ago, pig said: I can tell you my Saturday night Vietnamese dinner included a Leaver and a Portuguese lady complaining us English idiots got her husband drunk Well in a previous post I did mention food as part of culture. Personally I prefer Japanese although many Westerners still recoil at the idea of sashimi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said: £400k would be at the low end of the average pay for GS MDs and not much of a jump for someone working in the civil service at his level (his current package is worth just under £300k) moving into finance. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/19/theresa-may-signed-off-five-figure-bonus-for-chief-brexit-adviser-oliver-robbins I got the 165k from above source. according to this the highest paid of the lot are on 180 ish + bonus https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/766814/_150k-2018-Master.csv/preview If 400k is low its is still a lovely increase of circa double. https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/Goldman-Sachs-Managing-Director-London-Salaries-EJI_IE2800.0,13_KO14,31_IL.32,38_IM1035.htm Edited September 10, 2019 by Fromage Frais Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Quote Tory MP asks Polish government to reject Brexit extension Conservative MP and avid Brexiteer Daniel Kawczynski has asked the Polish government to reject a further extension to Brexit. Kawczynski obviously believes that Poland’s right-wing populist government might listen to his overtures. A couple of days ago, Nigel Farage accused anti-Brexit MPs of “collaborating” with foreign powers by seeking advice on efforts to stop no deal. We hope he will be similarly offended by Kawczynski’s actions. scramnews Brexiters are clutching at straws now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 4 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said: Irritating isn’t it when a majority vote is ignored. No majority for "no deal brexit". Most people would rather remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 3 hours ago, grasshopper said: Add to that that the Lib Dems are looking to put revoking article fifty as a manifesto commitment and we will have the remain vote split. The next GE is going to be hard to call. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/10/boris-johnson-still-ahead-in-the-polls-but-by-how-much Quote The simple reason why Johnson and so many Conservatives want an election is that the polls say they their party will win – current averages have Johnson’s party ahead by nine points. Many Labour MPs are nervous and want to push an election beyond Johnson’s 31 October deadline in the hope he will be damaged. But it is not clear if these assumptions are well founded. On Monday, Jason Stein, an aide to Amber Rudd, a former cabinet minister, said private polling done on behalf of Downing Street and revealed to special advisers had suggested the Conservatives would end up with 295 to 300 seats, well short of the 326 required for a majority. Others have a different recollection of an internal discussion in the middle of last week, where Dominic Cummings, Johnson’s strategy adviser, was asked about the risk of the Conservatives losing 30 or 35 seats in London, Scotland and the south-west. What they remembered was that Cummings “shrugged his shoulders” and offered no immediate rebuttal to the gathered group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Simples... negotiate a deal with the EU on the understanding that there will be a final referendum for either the proposed deal or no deal (remain not on the ballot). This will encourage the EU to find the best deal possible, which cannot be the case if 'remain' was going to be an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, tomandlu said: Simples... negotiate a deal with the EU on the understanding that there will be a final referendum for either the proposed deal or no deal (remain not on the ballot). This will encourage the EU to find the best deal possible, which cannot be the case if 'remain' was going to be an option. I could live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Fromage Frais said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/19/theresa-may-signed-off-five-figure-bonus-for-chief-brexit-adviser-oliver-robbins I got the 165k from above source. according to this the highest paid of the lot are on 180 ish + bonus https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/766814/_150k-2018-Master.csv/preview If 400k is low its is still a lovely increase of circa double. https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/Goldman-Sachs-Managing-Director-London-Salaries-EJI_IE2800.0,13_KO14,31_IL.32,38_IM1035.htm That sounds too low most PS are on 185-195 plus bonus, also it doesn't include pension which at his age will be worth around 30% of his salary. It will be published but I don't have the time/inclination to look for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 21 minutes ago, tomandlu said: Simples... negotiate a deal with the EU on the understanding that there will be a final referendum for either the proposed deal or no deal (remain not on the ballot). This will encourage the EU to find the best deal possible, which cannot be the case if 'remain' was going to be an option. There are only two options at the moment: May's WA and no deal. The current WA is really only about leaving and not much else and it has the status of an international treaty if signed. If we've signed the WA we will have left and the next stage would be a long term agreement which could take years. The transition period, initially to the end of 2020, would be extended accordingly. If we leave with no deal we will also have left but we will have to address the backstop; citizens rights and termination payments before we can sit down about a trade deal. If we do as you suggest we will have left anyway and the no deal option falls away leaving us with a deal that could have taken years to negotiate and which has been overtaken by events. Do I have this wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Just caught up with the scenes in Parliament last night. It has become quite popular here in Brussels recently, at least Brexit is keeping the rest of the world amused. These days UK politics is more like Italy than the Italians can manage was one comment I heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Trump Invective said: Dominic Cummings to journalists on his doorstep: "You guys should get out of London. Go and talk to people who are not rich remainers." At least he admits he is rich, but I thought he was a leaver! Hoho Oh yes. The man with a tapestry room in his 1.6 million pound house. The man whose wife's family owns a castle. https://www.theredroar.com/2019/08/revealed-anti-elite-dominic-cummings-lives-in-1-6-million-islington-townhouse/ I hope he's taken his hypocritical oath. Obnoxious little alien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, jonb2 said: Oh yes. The man with a tapestry room in his 1.6 million pound house. The man whose wife's family owns a castle. https://www.theredroar.com/2019/08/revealed-anti-elite-dominic-cummings-lives-in-1-6-million-islington-townhouse/ I hope he's taken his hypocritical oath. Obnoxious little alien. Don't shoot the messenger (although I'd make an exception for DC) - he's probably right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, tomandlu said: Don't shoot the messenger (although I'd make an exception for DC) - he's probably right. He's not a messenger. He's a ego driven-manipulator who is a bit better with Excel than most people. His salary is probably higher than Ollie Robins and it's paid from tax payers money. A liar without limits. The classic conman. Despite his bro-street-cred-anarchist body odour, he's part of the out-of-favour elites who will soon be an in-favour elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, jonb2 said: He's not a messenger. I don't think "don't shoot the messenger" means what you think it means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Just now, tomandlu said: I don't think "don't shoot the messenger" means what you think it means. OK Tomandlu, please explain your context. I know what it means - but you may have a point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, zugzwang said: Which Conservatives? There appears now to be two Conservative Parties in British politics; three if you count the Farageists. 6 if you count UKIP, the Lib Dems and CUK. There are an awful lot of parties whose primary purpose is to keep the rich rich and prevent anybody else from getting a slice of the economic pie. Edited September 10, 2019 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, jonb2 said: OK Tomandlu, please explain your context. I know what it means - but you may have a point? My point? Purely that you don't have to be a literal messenger for the phrase to apply to you. It just encapsulates various logical fallacies (ad hominem, tu quoque, genetic). As for whether he's right or not on that particular matter, I'd say he's certainly got a point, irrespective of his motive for making it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, tomandlu said: My point? Purely that you don't have to be a literal messenger for the phrase to apply to you. It just encapsulates various logical fallacies (ad hominem, tu quoque, genetic). As for whether he's right or not on that particular matter, I'd say he's certainly got a point, irrespective of his motive for making it. OK, I see your point. And since all politics of today is bull shit and lying, rather than policy, perhaps antagonistic messaging is all we're ever going to get from now on? It started in America. Edited September 10, 2019 by jonb2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 The real cost of cheap US chicken? Chlorination is just the start Quote We chlorinate our water, so what’s the problem with using chlorine washes to make chicken safe? Why all the fuss, asked Zippy Duvall, the head of the US farmers’ lobby group, on the BBC’s Today programme last month. The fact that we disinfect water with chlorine will not do as an argument here, despite Duvall’s hopes. We disinfect our lavatories with it, too. The issue of safety depends on concentration. The World Health Organization recommends water supplies are treated with a maximum of 5mg of chlorine per litre. The US allows poultry carcasses to be washed in water treated with up to 50mg of chlorine per litre. The EU allows salad leaves to be treated with chlorine washes, and in the UK they have typically been used at concentrations of up to 15-20mg per litre, although industry has been moving away from using them in response to consumer concerns. The WHO recommends limits on levels because disinfecting with chlorine leaves behind harmful residues of chlorinated compounds, some of which are known from animal tests to be cancer-causing. Residues in water supplies have been studied, and the benefits far outweigh the risks. However, there has been very little proper study of the residues left by the use of chlorine in food processing. Quote In developed countries such as the UK, the cost of our food as a percentage of income is lower than it has ever been. Chicken is already as cheap as chips. The crises we face of climate breakdown, loss of natural species, and epidemics of diet-related disease globally will not be addressed with more of the same intensive production. Those on low incomes suffer the highest rates of obesity and illness caused by nutritionally depleted foods. They want decent pay to afford decent diets – the things that cost more to produce: fresh fruit and vegetables, whole, less processed foods. Instead, the share of GDP paid out as wages has fallen inexorably, while the share sucked up in corporate profits has grown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggus Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 ITV reports that ' The rate of employment in the UK has hit a record high as workers’ wages continue to surge higher, according to new figures.' https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-10/uk-employment-rate-hits-record-high-as-wages-surge-higher/ The rate of unemployment is at its lowest in 45 years with average pay going up by 4% per year. Meanwhile the Gruniad tells us this terrible news and, of course, blames Brexit. https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2019/sep/10/uk-unemployment-report-jobs-wages-brexit-stock-markets-business-live Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.