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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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4 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

It only means something to people who respect democracy.

Democracy is dead, it ended in 2016... or so you Brexiteers would like to think :rolleyes:.

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13 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Democracy is dead, it ended in 2016... or so you Brexiteers would like to think :rolleyes:.

Remoaners have killed democracy.

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8 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Remoaners have killed democracy.

No matter how many times you keep repeating that nonsense the fact remains that there is a question mark over whether or not the majority of the people still want to leave the EU and there is only one way to find out, a 2nd referendum. 

If the majority of the people now want to remain in the EU, it would be undemocratic to force them to leave.

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3 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

No matter how many times you keep repeating that nonsense the fact remains that there is a question mark over whether or not the majority of the people still want to leave the EU and there is only one way to find out, a 2nd referendum. 

If the majority of the people now want to remain in the EU, it would be undemocratic to force them to leave.

Which could also have been true the day after the vote. You vote, you act on the result, and if it takes a long time then so be it. Suppose remain had won, should we now be having another vote in case leave are in the majority? 

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7 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

No matter how many times you keep repeating that nonsense the fact remains that there is a question mark over whether or not the majority of the people still want to leave the EU and there is only one way to find out, a 2nd referendum. 

If the majority of the people now want to remain in the EU, it would be undemocratic to force them to leave.

It’s astonishing after calling brexit voters uneducated, ignorant, xenophobic, bigoted, fascist, Nazi, gammon; you expect them to support a second referendum because it’s what the folk who have been insulting them for three years want to happen.

Cold dead hands.

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1 minute ago, GeneCernan said:

Which could also have been true the day after the vote. You vote, you act on the result, and if it takes a long time then so be it. Suppose remain had won, should we now be having another vote in case leave are in the majority? 

Of course we should, no doubt about it, a lot of water has passed under the bridge and a confirmatory vote is necessary.

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I like this thread and check into it multiple times a day. Conflict aint good dudes, chill and enjoy the weather, I'm on my way to Hyde park for the event of the decade:

Cat Power*

Laura Marling**

Neil Young

Bob Dylan

 

*Meow

**Double Meow

 

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1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said:

It’s astonishing after calling brexit voters uneducated, ignorant, xenophobic, bigoted, fascist, Nazi, gammon; you expect them to support a second referendum because it’s what the folk who have been insulting them for three years want to happen.

Cold dead hands.

I haven't called Brexit voters any of those things, in fact I voted to leave, but in the light of events over the last three years I have changed my mind. Perhaps I am alone in that but I doubt it.

I don't understand the "Cold dead hands" thing, was it some kind of a threat?

 

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....the so called 'vote' is immaterial....things happen anyway, as if we think we had the power to change anything anyway.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.....watch this space.;)

 

Edited by winkie

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13 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

I haven't called Brexit voters any of those things maybe not, in fact I voted to leave, but in the light of events over the last three years I have changed my mind which is your choice. Perhaps I am alone in that but I doubt it. Changing your mind doesn’t entitle you to another vote.

I don't understand the "Cold dead hands" thing, was it some kind of a threat?

No it’s not a threat.

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3 hours ago, onlooker said:

The acute housing shortage is caused by importing a net 200,000 people every year. They are not living on the streets,  (well just a few), so they must be accommodated somewhere.

Spending on schools is very high, ramping up partiucularly during the Labour years 1997 to 2010. If the money was so well spent, why have we so many shortages in critical professions and so many unemployables?

Absolutely. It was the bubble of debt in the housing market that created the jobs that drew them to the UK. Now the rate of credit creation has slowed to a trickle so too has the number of East European migrants wanting to come here.

The Labour years ended a decade ago. The public sector has experienced real terms cuts ever since. School buildings are literally falling apart. Osborne justified this approach with reference to something called the 'expansionary fiscal contraction' hypothesis, also known as the German view of budget cutting. It didn't make much sense to anybody capable of counting to twenty without removing his shoes and socks. And manifestly it hasn't worked, since here we are in recession again with nothing to show for our troubles except a second gigantic housing bubble and ten years of emergency interest rates.

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27 minutes ago, GeneCernan said:

Which could also have been true the day after the vote. You vote, you act on the result, and if it takes a long time then so be it. Suppose remain had won, should we now be having another vote in case leave are in the majority

Well I for one changed my mind the day after the vote,  the moment those slimy ***** back pedaled on the claims they had based their campaign upon. 

 

Almost everything that has happened since has cemented my view. 

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9 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

No it’s not a threat.

I really can't understand how you can effectively say that if the majority of the people now want to remain that you are happy to drag them screaming and kicking out of the EU. That is tyranny, not democracy!

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11 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

I really can't understand how you can effectively say that if the majority of the people now want to remain that you are happy to drag them screaming and kicking out of the EU. That is tyranny, not democracy!

I say it comfortably and with absolute harmony.

People has their chance to vote; and both sides agreed in advance it was a once in a generation decision.

If you regret your vote, you should have thought about it more seriously in the first place.

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10 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

I really can't understand how you can effectively say that if the majority of the people now want to remain that you are happy to drag them screaming and kicking out of the EU. That is tyranny, not democracy!

The problem with your argument is that it's not so much an argument in favour of a second referendum as an argument against referenda in general.

Most of these issues are complicated and can't be answered by a simple yea or nay; you've admitted that yourself by having changed your mind. Direct democracy sounds all right but it would probably be a disaster in practice. Politics would be dominated by opinion polls and there would be an endless round of voting - we'd be in the voting booth on a weekly basis. Meanwhile chaos ensues and nothing is resolved, political tensions mount, the country is divided; the economy goes to pot...

Cameron called the referendum to solve a party political problem; not to allow a decision to be made but to avoid having to make a decision. There was a much better case for calling a referendum on the Maastricht Treaty than this time.

A second referendum would compound the chaos and solve nothing and direct democracy in a large, developed state is basically a rather stupid system.

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1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said:

I say it comfortably and with absolute harmony.

People has their chance to vote; and both sides agreed in advance it was a once in a generation decision.

If you regret your vote, you should have thought about it more seriously in the first place.

So if 90% of leave voters have changed their minds and now want to remain, you would still drag the vast majority of the population, against their will, out of the EU? 

Good luck with that, fortunately for the majority you are not in charge and I'm pretty sure that parliament will not allow it.

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15 minutes ago, crouch said:

The problem with your argument is that it's not so much an argument in favour of a second referendum as an argument against referenda in general.

Most of these issues are complicated and can't be answered by a simple yea or nay; you've admitted that yourself by having changed your mind. Direct democracy sounds all right but it would probably be a disaster in practice. Politics would be dominated by opinion polls and there would be an endless round of voting - we'd be in the voting booth on a weekly basis. Meanwhile chaos ensues and nothing is resolved, political tensions mount, the country is divided; the economy goes to pot...

Cameron called the referendum to solve a party political problem; not to allow a decision to be made but to avoid having to make a decision. There was a much better case for calling a referendum on the Maastricht Treaty than this time.

A second referendum would compound the chaos and solve nothing and direct democracy in a large, developed state is basically a rather stupid system.

 

Unfortunately for you, it looks like there will be a parliamentary majority for a 2nd referendum if that clown Johnson tries to push a no deal Brexit through.

For obvious reasons, whatever it is, the result of the 2nd referendum should be enacted immediately.

With regard to referenda, I think that with complex issues we will need to have multiple referenda to reach a democratic compromise.

Edited by Bruce Banner

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1 minute ago, Bruce Banner said:

For obvious reasons, whatever it is, the result of the 2nd referendum should be enacted immediately.

Indeed and then we'll be in the countdown to the third referendum.

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4 minutes ago, crouch said:

Indeed and then we'll be in the countdown to the third referendum.

I was editing my above post while you were posting. Yes, multiple referendums could be necessary.

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2 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

Bank of England's Vlieghe: no-deal Brexit could mean near zero interest rates - business live

Policymaker Gertjan Vlieghe said rates might have to be cut to virtually zero if the UK crashes out of the EU without a deal

 

Wonder what that will do to house prices?

Hardly a surprise as around a year ago a BoE deputy giving evidence to the select commitee said that the response to a no deal was likely to be huge  provision of liquidity, more QE and near zero interest rates for an extended period.

Not exactly the conditions likely to produce a HPC.

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6 minutes ago, moneyfornothing said:

sorry .. no 3rd referendum if remain win .. thats how democracy works

Ah yes of course - I'd forgotten that.

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2 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Funny that, because last week it was that interest rates would have to rise because of inflation and a reduced exchange rate.

Bascially, they haven't got a clue and are just making up any old scary crap as they feel like it.

 

 

Finny thing is no one actually said that, so why are you posting it.

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  • 242 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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