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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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51 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Stop talking in riddles.

The Remain line is that a Soft Brexit will cost the UK ~£250bn over the next decade and that Hard Brexit will cost the UK ~£400bn over the next decade, and that either choice is likely to permanently impair UK economic prospects.

https://economics.rabobank.com/publications/2017/october/the-permanent-damage-of-brexit/

Stop talking in riddles? An odd statement to begin a non sequitor with.

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1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

Free market capitalism fell over and died in 2008. The global economy has been on life support ever since.

Where did the money,  that pumped up asset prices beyond free market  prices, come from?

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22 hours ago, zugzwang said:

Me too. Any effort that seeks to divorce rents and mortgages from the cost of land deserves a serious hearing.

Good to see old ideas being revived to deal with land speculation too (UK model).

Quote

Preparing new sites using Public Development Corporations

Purchasing land and preparing it for development can be a complex, risky and time-consuming process. To ensure that enough land is made available https://landforthemany.uk/5-place-before-profit-taking-back-control-of-land-development/and assembled for new development, new public and democratically-accountable Development Corporations should be established with the power to purchase, develop and sell land in the public interest...

https://landforthemany.uk/5-place-before-profit-taking-back-control-of-land-development/

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23 minutes ago, smash said:

Do you think we could say that the GFC contributed to the Brexit vote? Perceived injustice of banks getting bailed out that coincided with talk about "globalists" on social media?

Not an unreasonable statement at all.

People saw the bad'uns get rewarded for bad behaviour by the establishment. The same establishment telling them to vote remain...

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22 hours ago, jonb2 said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/final-say-brexit-referendum-lies-boris-johnson-leave-campaign-remain-a8466751.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/14/judges-brexit-vote-eu-referendum-vote-leave

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/01/brexit-referendum-was-badly-designed-and-unfairly-won-so-why-there-so-much

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/10/24/brexit-is-not-the-will-of-the-british-people-it-never-has-been/

https://www.europeanlawmonitor.org/eu-referendum-topics/the-eu-referendum-result-has-no-democratic-legitimacy-at-all.html

Plenty more where these came from.

Now, you have to think carefully about the nebulousness of the referendum. Even ignoring the effects of it, the question is, would you run it again as it was done?

So a question for you. Let's say there was a referendum on banning abortion, I think you would agree the planning should require a great deal of thought and legal control. It's of monumental societal importance after all. Or would you be happy to have a free-for-all where facts don't matter? The pro-lifers win being because of emotion stirred up by unbridled lies.

:D

I did say contemporaneous but thanks for the list of, " Yeah but, but we want to Remain" articles penned since the vote.

As far as turning back the clock; no I wouldn't run it as it was done hence why I asked you about a vote threshold upthread and posted the root cause of the crisis is in bold below, i.e PoW

 

On ‎10‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 15:56, Sheeple Splinter said:

It could have made all the difference to you and your fellow travellers? :)

Can you direct me to any contemporaneous articles on the, "... deeply flawed referendum."?

 

You've been had, jonb2! :)

You only need to look at the WA/Indicative vote farce and compare it to the passage of the EU Referendum Bill.

The UK's ire is being reflected by the PoW back on to the citizens. 

As discussed upthread, divide and conquer.

I'll leave the abortion example out of it and agree about presenting facts and in-depth planning... for both sides. :)

 

 

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9 hours ago, pig said:

Lol - well, it’s funny to see when it is that you do actually try to make a point !

:D Even funnier if you actually responded with something of a higher order than a BoJo quip.

It'll keep :)

Edited by Sheeple Splinter
typo

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6 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/the-eu-may-be-overplaying-its-hand-in-swiss-stock-exchange-standoff-experts-say.html

  • The EU allowed the equivalence, which allows Swiss equities to be traded easily within the bloc, to expire at the end of June.
  • Switzerland and the EU are embroiled in an ongoing dispute regarding long-standing financial, immigration and trade ties between the two.
  • In response, Swiss authorities removed the recognition which allows EU trading venues to offer trading in around 250 Swiss companies, in accordance with a pre-emptive ruling from the Swiss Federal Council in November 2018 to protect Swiss exchanges in the event of talks collapsing.

 

BoJo should take note... but he won't.

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4 hours ago, Riedquat said:

No Brexit is the status quo when it comes to things pertaining to the UK's relationship with the EU and anything arising from that. It isn't, and I shouldn't have to explain it but it seems that I do, the status quo for everything in the entire universe.

You may be attempting to explain your views but that doesn't stop them being illogical.

If the government decided to remain in the EU that would not imply keeping a status quo in regard to our relation to the EU, rather they would be highly incentivised to change whatever aspects of our membership led to the vote for Brexit.

In the short term that would mean implementing Cameron's deal, stopping blaming the EU for problems of our own making and full use of existing powers to address migration concerns. 

In the longer term the EU will continue to evolve and we could have a large say in how it did. At the next treaty change the UK would be well placed to achieve its objectives in return for letting others achieve theirs.  

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2 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Last week but it has been around for a while. :)

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/northern-powerhouse-trade-mission-launched-at-india-roadshow

Thanks for the chart. Are you suggesting the Northerners stop buying imported goods or just export more?

They're f**ked like the rest of us unless the bubble of phantom of equity in the housing market is extinguished.

The Tory boys have squandered a decade and a trillion pounds re-substantiating it.

 

6770371-15180985582589686.png

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2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

You may be attempting to explain your views but that doesn't stop them being illogical.

If the government decided to remain in the EU that would not imply keeping a status quo in regard to our relation to the EU, rather they would be highly incentivised to change whatever aspects of our membership led to the vote for Brexit.

In the short term that would mean implementing Cameron's deal, stopping blaming the EU for problems of our own making and full use of existing powers to address migration concerns. 

In the longer term the EU will continue to evolve and we could have a large say in how it did. At the next treaty change the UK would be well placed to achieve its objectives in return for letting others achieve theirs.  

IF Brexit is stopped, the remoaners gain control. There won't be any  changes to suit leavers. Why would there be? Remoaners won't allow another referendum.

Edited by yodigo

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3 minutes ago, yodigo said:

IF Brexit is stopped, the remoaners gain control. There won't be any  changes to suit leavers. Why would there be? Remoaners won't allow another referendum.

Don't you like democracy, the will of majority?

Don't you believe in democracy, when things don't go your way?

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1 hour ago, rollover said:

Don't you like democracy, the will of majority?

Don't you believe in democracy, when things don't go your way?

Yawn

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As Labour have changed their minds on Brexit then they should all resign and stand for election on their new manifesto. The Labour voters really didn't know what they were voting for. Let's give them another chance, it's called democracy.

It would be an interesting outcome, whatever it is, and no one really knows, which is why they won't risk it.

Edited by yodigo

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3 minutes ago, yodigo said:

As Labour have changed their minds on Brexit then they should all resign and stand for election on their new manifesto. The Labour voters really didn't know what they were voting for. Let's give them another chance, it's called democracy.

It would be an interesting outcome, whatever it is, and no one really knows, which is why they won't risk it.

A General Election would be very, very welcome. As would a Remain coalition of Green, Lib Dem and Labour.

The Bretibartian sewer dwellers can organise themselves however they see fit.

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1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

A General Election would be very, very welcome. As would a Remain coalition of Green, Lib Dem and Labour.

The Bretibartian sewer dwellers can organise themselves however they see fit.

You need a coalition... scared of losing then?

I suspect Bozo will buy of the SNP with an indyref, he will if he has any sense.

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10 hours ago, jonb2 said:

GCSE question.

Iceland - Take 1 fish, sold on the docks for £1.00. Divide that sale between the population of both a country with 340,000 people and one with 67,000,000 - expressed as a percentage of monetary income. Please show your working out.

India - does it have the same standard of living as the UK? Or does it have an acute 1% wealth problem? Increasing inequality.

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/economy-politics/oxfam-india-wealth-report-income-inequality-richests-poor/story/268541.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_India

If India is what you want the UK to be, then Brexit is a fine tool to enable it...

 

:blink: Tut tut! Answering a question with a question!

Can I presume that you can't provide an answer to this question?

21 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

 

...Can you give any examples where Iceland has been, "...  kicked from pillar to post."? (Not the financial crisis:))...

 

10 hours ago, jonb2 said:

What question?

This one:

On ‎10‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 16:52, Sheeple Splinter said:

 

...Can you name one country that won't want to trade with the UK? 

As far as your GCSE question goes, may I suggest an alternative metric?              Dual axes acknowledged :)

Iceland GDP per capita PPP

Thanks for the links and whilst wealth inequality deserves a thread of its own what does it have to do with UK - India trade?

Back to India:

Quote

… India now has a thriving middle class, is the world’s 6th largest economy and has the highest expected growth rate in the G20. A major attraction for UK exporters is the sheer pace of expansion and the country’s notably young demographic. India has a population with a median age of 27, and rising affluence is the biggest driver of increasing consumption...

I don't agree that Brexit is going to make the UK like India but uncontrolled immigration might. 

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1 hour ago, yodigo said:

IF Brexit is stopped, the remoaners gain control. There won't be any  changes to suit leavers. Why would there be? Remoaners won't allow another referendum.

So far Brexit has done less than nothing to suit leavers and there is little sign that it ever will.

In the event that it was stopped the whole focus of the government would be on addressing the concerns of the leavers before they were held to account at the next GE.

For leavers, at least those not hung up on regaining the illusion of absolute sovereignty, it would be like Brexit but better.   

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10 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

A reasonably balanced and pragmatic solution orientated analysis by the alternative arrangements commission;

 

Take home message - where there is a will, there is way!

 

Meanwhile:

Quote

Ireland flags need for no-deal Brexit checks, just not at border...

In a no-deal scenario, Ireland has pledged to impose the necessary checks to preserve its full participation in the EU single market while avoiding any related infrastructure - a task Coveney said has not been easy to resolve in contingency talks with Brussels that began early this year.

Both sides had made progress, he added, but were not where they needed to be ahead of the current Oct. 31 Brexit deadline...

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-ireland/ireland-flags-need-for-no-deal-brexit-checks-just-not-at-border-idUSKCN1U41P1

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9 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

I'm not a Tory anymore, not sure what I am, political atheist? But I'll answer your question anyway.

How could anyone be enthusiastic about the prospect of having a PM who thinks that bluster, a "can do" attitude and optimism are the qualities needed to run a country. 

Ditto :)

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1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

They're f**ked like the rest of us unless the bubble of phantom of equity in the housing market is extinguished.

The Tory boys have squandered a decade and a trillion pounds re-substantiating it.

 

6770371-15180985582589686.png

Debt jubilee then?

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11 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

I'm not a Tory anymore, not sure what I am, political atheist? But I'll answer your question anyway.

How could anyone be enthusiastic about the prospect of having a PM who thinks that bluster, a "can do" attitude and optimism are the qualities needed to run a country. 

My guess is that you’re still a conservative, perfectly honourable - but currently feeling homeless. You haven’t left the party you’re trying to figure out if the party has left you.

Normally we should be having a bitter row over whatever  but things are that beyond common sense we’ve ended up on the same ‘side’.

Well really I have no idea other than copious conversations with dismayed (maybe former) leave Conservative voters in the flesh.

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Many more homeless voters could mean instead of two party politics it will evolve into ~five party politics...two left, two right and a middle......can see it happening in other places.....😉

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  • 242 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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