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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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25 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

The status quo depends on how you view Brexit. I simply see a bunch of the same kind of spivs and shysters promising rubbish in order to enrich themselves. So as I said, the status quo, but worse. More austerity, less autonomy, more asset stripping, more tax avoidance, more inequality and generally more decline.

Yes, the bunch of shysters who are wringing their hair out over Brexit and are desperate for Remain.

As for those other issues you mention (although wealth-wise our problems are entirely due to a lack of management and distribution of it rather than a lack of total wealth) they're things we should be sorting out for ourselves, not begging to be nannied.

Edited by Riedquat

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13 minutes ago, tomandlu said:

Are you saying there are no negative things about Trump, or you don't see why diplomats need to point them out? Either way, you're being very odd.

Something else, the internet means there are no secrets, every communication code has been broken by your competitors

.... how do we know it might even have been the French or Russian or Chinese that put that into the public domain 

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16 minutes ago, tomandlu said:

Are you saying there are no negative things about Trump, or you don't see why diplomats need to point them out? Either way, you're being very odd.

Diplomats should be diplomatic with the people they meet and honest and open with their own governments. That doesn't mean being two-faced - if you're behaving to the people you're dealing without expressing an opinion on them, no fake sucking up or insulting, they'll know you've got your own opinion (not necessarily what it is) and you're putting it aside for the sake of getting on with business.

That requires people you work with back home also being professional enough not to leak things to score points.

Edited by Riedquat

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1 minute ago, prozac said:

Something else, the internet means there are no secrets, every communication code has been broken by your competitors

.... how do we know it might even have been the French or Russian or Chinese that put that into the public domain 

I'd hope that messages between ambassadors and their home governments are sufficiently encrypted.

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9 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

I'd hope that messages between ambassadors and their home governments are sufficiently encrypted.

Whilst drinking my tea and eating my twix I know there are thousands of people out there writing codes and breaking codes 

We are approaching a period of a world without secrets 

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1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

I do find it a bit odd though how you concern about the future leads to you desperately trying to maintain the status quo that brought us here.

I find it odd that you think everything apart from Brexit is the status quo, or even that there is or was a status quo option to hang onto. 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, tomandlu said:

So, a general aversion to diplomats? I dunno - you're not making much sense. So, if he'd spent his time in Washington telling Trump what an **** he was, that somehow would have met your approval? (for the four seconds he remained in post?)

Also, you might want to look up what the word "diplomatic" means...

Or take a look at Wikileaks and learn what US diplomats were saying about everybody else in private.

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22 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Yes, the bunch of shysters who are wringing their hair out over Brexit and are desperate for Remain.

As for those other issues you mention (although wealth-wise our problems are entirely due to a lack of management and distribution of it rather than a lack of total wealth) they're things we should be sorting out for ourselves, not begging to be nannied.

Destroying our trading relationship with our biggest market is not nannying.

I am desperate to remain because Brexit is a con, a scam, a ruse. To argue otherwise, please point me to the clear plan Johnson et al has for the country.

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1 hour ago, prozac said:

Saying that he was charming to his face, and a fool in private correspondence 

i don’t like diplomats, they are two faced 

i prefer Trump and Sadik Khan tell people what you think of them

Trump did a very good job of both showing that the assessment of his character was accurate and why telling him what we think of him is not a viable approach.

 

 

      

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7 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Or take a look at Wikileaks and learn what US diplomats were saying about everybody else in private.

Forgive me, but I actually agree with the Iranian government that wikileeks is done by the CIA or NSA or whatever it is called nowadays 

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24 minutes ago, prozac said:

Something else, the internet means there are no secrets, every communication code has been broken by your competitors

.... how do we know it might even have been the French or Russian or Chinese that put that into the public domain 

If that was true there would be no money left in the banks, their codes (or more accurately end to end systems) are far less secure than those used within the UK government.  

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14 minutes ago, prozac said:

Whilst drinking my tea and eating my twix I know there are thousands of people out there writing codes and breaking codes 

We are approaching a period of a world without secrets 

No modern codes are breakable in any useful timeframe. 

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27 minutes ago, prozac said:

Whilst drinking my tea and eating my twix I know there are thousands of people out there writing codes and breaking codes 

We are approaching a period of a world without secrets 

Sigh. Do you have any understanding of how encryption works? The fact that someone posts revenge-nudes does not mean that P = NP.

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34 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I find it odd that you think everything apart from Brexit is the status quo, or even that there is or was a status quo option to hang onto.

I can only assume that you've reached that conclusion by making generalisations about the world in general when I'm making points specifically relating to Brexit. Here's some useful information for you - people don't have one opinion that they apply to absolutely everything.

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34 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Destroying our trading relationship with our biggest market is not nannying.

You're once again muddling things together. You were basically stating that we need the EU to protect us from our own politicians, which drew the accusation of nannying. Now you're trying to apply that to a different issue, trade relationships (and Brexit != destroying the trading relationship - too many Remainers seem to think that everything is one extreme or the other).

Quote

I am desperate to remain because Brexit is a con, a scam, a ruse. To argue otherwise, please point me to the clear plan Johnson et al has for the country.

You're saying there that your problem is with Johnson et al, not Brexit.  Once again, problem with our own politicians means they're a problem to be solved, a separate issue from Brexit.

At the risk of using an analogy (because some posters seem to take them absurdly literally, apparently believing analogy means "identical in every possible way"), imagine little Johnny who can't cook and lives with his mum. If he leaves home he'll starve! The Remain line is that the problem is him leaving home. The Leave line is that he should learn to cook.

Edited by Riedquat

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9 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

I can only assume that you've reached that conclusion by making generalisations about the world in general when I'm making points specifically relating to Brexit. Here's some useful information for you - people don't have one opinion that they apply to absolutely everything.

So we are agreed - no Brexit does not equal the status quo.

Therefore not wanting Brexit does not equal wanting the status quo. 

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17 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

So we are agreed - no Brexit does not equal the status quo.

Therefore not wanting Brexit does not equal wanting the status quo. 

No Brexit is the status quo when it comes to things pertaining to the UK's relationship with the EU and anything arising from that. It isn't, and I shouldn't have to explain it but it seems that I do, the status quo for everything in the entire universe.

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2 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Diplomats should be diplomatic with the people they meet and honest and open with their own governments. That doesn't mean being two-faced - if you're behaving to the people you're dealing without expressing an opinion on them, no fake sucking up or insulting, they'll know you've got your own opinion (not necessarily what it is) and you're putting it aside for the sake of getting on with business.

That requires people you work with back home also being professional enough not to leak things to score points.

Yes, some really nasty and rude things have been said about our prime minister... have their jobs become untenable so have felt had to resign? 😉

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1 minute ago, winkie said:

Yes, some really nasty and rude things have been said about our prime minister... have their jobs become untenable so have felt had to resign? 😉

Just you wait until the next one if you want nasty rude things said about our PM!

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2 hours ago, jonb2 said:

Destroying our trading relationship with our biggest market is not nannying.

I am desperate to remain because Brexit is a con, a scam, a ruse. To argue otherwise, please point me to the clear plan Johnson et al has for the country.

What like a 5 year plan for tractor production?

Surely our supposed, free market is not planned ...... can never be planned. When will we buy cars.....a new kitchen... a new house....... it is, by definition, random ...... of course the the socialist politico-bankers like to plan control & manipulate......

?

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1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

You're once again muddling things together. You were basically stating that we need the EU to protect us from our own politicians, which drew the accusation of nannying. Now you're trying to apply that to a different issue, trade relationships (and Brexit != destroying the trading relationship - too many Remainers seem to think that everything is one extreme or the other).

You're saying there that your problem is with Johnson et al, not Brexit.  Once again, problem with our own politicians means they're a problem to be solved, a separate issue from Brexit.

At the risk of using an analogy (because some posters seem to take them absurdly literally, apparently believing analogy means "identical in every possible way"), imagine little Johnny who can't cook and lives with his mum. If he leaves home he'll starve! The Remain line is that the problem is him leaving home. The Leave line is that he should learn to cook.

Stop talking in riddles.

The Remain line is that a Soft Brexit will cost the UK ~£250bn over the next decade and that Hard Brexit will cost the UK ~£400bn over the next decade, and that either choice is likely to permanently impair UK economic prospects.

https://economics.rabobank.com/publications/2017/october/the-permanent-damage-of-brexit/

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11 minutes ago, cnick said:

What like a 5 year plan for tractor production?

Surely our supposed, free market is not planned ...... can never be planned. When will we buy cars.....a new kitchen... a new house....... it is, by definition, random ...... of course the the socialist politico-bankers like to plan control & manipulate......

?

Free market capitalism fell over and died in 2008. The global economy has been on life support ever since.

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35 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Free market capitalism fell over and died in 2008. The global economy has been on life support ever since.

Do you think we could say that the GFC contributed to the Brexit vote? Perceived injustice of banks getting bailed out that coincided with talk about "globalists" on social media?

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51 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Stop talking in riddles.

The Remain line is that a Soft Brexit will cost the UK ~£250bn over the next decade and that Hard Brexit will cost the UK ~£400bn over the next decade, and that either choice is likely to permanently impair UK economic prospects.

https://economics.rabobank.com/publications/2017/october/the-permanent-damage-of-brexit/

Stop talking in riddles? An odd statement to begin a non sequitor with.

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  • 239 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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