Kosmin Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 10 hours ago, copydude said: I think the LDs should be very circumspect about another doing another coalition. Last time out they ended up reneging on most of the issues that got them elected and blew an opportunity to get PR. I can't really see that being a problem this time. A lot of the Labour MPs are probably closer to Lib Dems than Corbyn on most policies, so I don't think there will be undue pressure on Lib Dems to move further to the left than they wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Clear and utterly crushing Brexit Party win in the election: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneyfornothing Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 4 hours ago, smash said: What is WTO and what were the expectations being created by The Brexit Party in those rallies? To my mind having watched/listened it seemed as though a WTO brexit is one one where we simply walk away from the EU. Although that might not be the plan within the Brexit Party but that seemed to be the expectation being created for supporters. But Farage (and Widdecome) said last night that the result means that they should be entitled to a seat at the table in the "negotiations". It's confusing and indicative of voters perhaps being drawn into expectations that may or may not be delivered. What expectations of "WTO" do you have and how would it work? You dont need to bother what the Brexit Party promised the Brexit supporters. Let the Brexit supporter worry about what was promised to them.. its wearing thin .. they dont know what hey voted for .. theres no end to this ... try and inform / misonform from your side and attract all the votes you can to make the Brexit party voter support your favoured party before the elections.. Dont argue on their behalf that they were misinformed, let them make that decision.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneyfornothing Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Errol said: Clear and utterly crushing Brexit Party win in the election: Dont post such stuff ... it will fry many brain circuits .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehead Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 43 minutes ago, Errol said: Clear and utterly crushing Brexit Party win in the election: I just heard Vince Cable talking and all I can say is I hope he finds a way of uniting Republicans and Democrats in a way Trump couldn't. I say this cos he obviously thinks he's won something, and judging by his extreme chipper mood I'm guessing it must be real big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehead Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 hours ago, copydude said: I think the LDs should be very circumspect about another doing another coalition. Last time out they ended up reneging on most of the issues that got them elected and blew an opportunity to get PR. At least they were nominally in power in that one. The previous one didn't merely keep them from office but made them a laughing stock to boot. Can't help grinning at VC's "acceptance" speeches today, all of which have the fateful whiff of David Steel at the 1981 Liberal party conference: "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for government!" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Errol said: Clear and utterly crushing Brexit Party win in the election: Lol - yes Errol. World domination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 hours ago, pig said: "Here is Bannon, fresh off the plane from stoking race war in Paris and advising Boris Johnson on what to do after Theresa May, in Kazakhstan, giving a consoling embrace to RT propaganda persona George Galloway. Where's old white nationalist Steve Bannon off to next? “Steve Bannon, Nick Griffin, and Jeff Monson headline the Novorossia Friendship Congress at Moscow’s President Hotel.” https://boingboing.net/2019/05/24/whats-steve-bannon-up-to-st.html SCARY, I feel safer with the lizards in control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 22 minutes ago, prozac said: SCARY, I feel safer with the lizards in control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindler Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, prozac said: SCARY, I feel safer with the lizards in control. Rt has some fantastic shows like Keiser report...Renegade Inc...Boom Bust and Watching the Hawks....larry king had a show on there and jose Mourinho is doing a football show.....so you stick to your mainstream propaganda Pig and miss out......they provide an excellent platform and most of ther stuff is way over the heads of your average tabloid reader in the UK... I am not a particular fan of Galloway i don;t know much about him but he put the lid on Andrew Marr and his **** awful asination attempt on Farage....Galloway..." I knew Marr when he was a trotsky handing out fliers to bemused sailors outside Kings Cross" The more I do learn about Galloway is he's seen the establishment for what it was long before most of us Edited May 27, 2019 by Spindler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindler Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 If Rt is a platform for anti west propaganda they are pretty clever by simply giving a platform and then letting rebels within with axes to grind get on and do the job for them....Lord Haw Haw it ain't... I can barely watch MSM its so low brow.....Keiser Report has guests like jim rikards....Steve Keen...Wolf Richter.....Peter schiff on...its fantastic stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Spindler said: Rt has some fantastic shows like Keiser report...Renegade Inc...Boom Bust and Watching the Hawks....larry king had a show on there and jose Mourinho is doing a football show.....so you stick to your mainstream propaganda Pig and miss out......they provide an excellent platform and most of ther stuff is way over the heads of your average tabloid reader in the UK... I am not a particular fan of Galloway i don;t know much about him but he put the lid on Andrew Marr and his **** awful asination attempt on Farage....Galloway..." I knew Marr when he was a trotsky handing out fliers to bemused sailors outside Kings Cross" The more I do learn about Galloway is he's seen the establishment for what it was long before most of us Yeah seen it done it - Keiser is quite entertaining I'll give you that. But was a bit uneasy with it before the whole russian propaganda thing dawned on me. Listened to Farage on the radio tonight, and saw the Marr interview. Seems clear that Farage does get ruffled when he is out of his demagogue bubble, and its interesting hearing how his 'mark's rationalise it all - but I guess you're not going to be able to understand that perspective. Love it you're idolising Galloway now. Like a moth to the flame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said: https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/05/my-euro-election-post-vote-poll-most-tory-switchers-say-they-will-stay-with-their-new-party/ Are we going to have four party system (Lab/LD/Con/BP) now? If those results hold in the next GE then Lab/LD coalition is likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Millaise said: Pity the views of Atlee, Gaitskill, Wilson, Castle, Shore, Foot, Benn, Kinnock (1980s version), Blair (1980s version), & J.C. Himself are no longer representative of the Labour Party at large. I am not an expert in British political history but a quick reading reveals that some if not all of those people were British nationalists. They didn't like EU structures as they were a competition to the UK as a global power. It is quite interesting to learn for me that the UK Labour party was a kind of national socialism having its root in the imperial past. The new UK generations are more open, global, green, they don't think in terms of British dominance on the global scene. No wonder there is a ideological gap between old Labour and them. However they both share concerns regarding social justice and inequality. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/21/brexit-euroscepticism-history https://journals.openedition.org/rfcb/1364 Some interesting quotes Henry Tizard: “We persist in regarding ourselves as a Great Power capable of everything and only temporarily handicapped by economic difficulties,” he said. “We are not a Great Power and never will be again. We are a great nation, but if we continue to behave like a Great Power we shall soon cease to be a great nation.” Tizard’s wise words might be an epigraph – and an epitaph – for our story since then. Attlee: “I’m not very keen on the Common Market. After all, we beat Germany and we beat Italy and we saved France and Belgium and Holland. I never see why we should go crawling to them”.14 Speaking in the late 1960s he repeated the same message: “We are asked to join the Six. The Six”, he repeated before concluding in typically laconic fashion: “I seem to remember that we spent a lot of blood and treasure during the War rescuing four of them from the other two." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 26 minutes ago, slawek said: Are we going to have four party system (Lab/LD/Con/BP) now? If those results hold in the next GE then Lab/LD coalition is likely. Yes, Ashcroft's polling is predicting a Lab-LD win with 50-60 Brexit MPs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 That Ashcroft polling is showing exactly what I said up the thread: Lab target seats are usually competing with Con, and LD target seats are also usually competing with Con. So even though LDs are taking votes off Lab it doesn't really matter as they are rarely in marginals against each other, but the Brexit Party sucking votes away from Con hands seats to Lab and LD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 This polling suggests that whoever the new Tory PM is they will really want to avoid a general election. Pushing for WTO Brexit risks the Commons stopping them by triggering a GE. Will the new leader really gamble losing their premiership after a few months or will they just try to find a compromise that gets the withdrawal agreement through the Commons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dorkins said: That Ashcroft polling is showing exactly what I said up the thread: Lab target seats are usually competing with Con, and LD target seats are also usually competing with Con. So even though LDs are taking votes off Lab it doesn't really matter as they are rarely in marginals against each other, but the Brexit Party sucking votes away from Con hands seats to Lab and LD. So Brexit is now in hands of a few Tory MPs, who will be willing to support no confidence vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, slawek said: So Brexit is now in hands of a few Tory MPs, who will be willing to support no confidence vote. If you're a remainer MP on the left wing of the Tory party and representing a Con-LD marginal, now looks like an excellent time to start preparing to defect to the Lib Dems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Will the Peterborough by-election (June 6) test this? We have a slightly new dynamic in that LAB is now presenting itself as the party of the 2nd Referendum. I got an e-mail from Jeremy today which says: Quote With the Conservatives disintegrating and unable to govern, and parliament deadlocked, this issue will now have to go back to the people, whether through a general election or a public vote. There are 15 or so candidates in Peterborough - just about everyone except the People's Front of Judea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dorkins said: This polling suggests that whoever the new Tory PM is they will really want to avoid a general election. Pushing for WTO Brexit risks the Commons stopping them by triggering a GE. Will the new leader really gamble losing their premiership after a few months or will they just try to find a compromise that gets the withdrawal agreement through the Commons? That is even worse than what TM tried to do. Con/BP voters will be furious. I doubt the new PM would survive this. It seems like a checkmate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, prozac said: SCARY, I feel safer with the lizards in control. There's certainly a whiff of David Icke about Claire Fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, zugzwang said: There's certainly a whiff of David Icke about Claire Fox. Why is Sargon of Akkad in the audience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, copydude said: Will the Peterborough by-election (June 6) test this? We have a slightly new dynamic in that LAB is now presenting itself as the party of the 2nd Referendum. I got an e-mail from Jeremy today which says: There are 15 or so candidates in Peterborough - just about everyone except the People's Front of Judea. The debate has become so polarised - sectarian even - that there's really no centre ground to fight over. Corbs can legitimately argue that he honoured the referendum result by putting a Soft Brexit before the public in these elections, only to have it thrown back in his face. Similarly, on the Tory side the prospect of anyone but a Farage clone taking May's place must be lower than a grasshopper's knee. The Labour Party has really no alternative but to adopt an explcitly Remain posture now, with the sop of a 2nd Ref to Leave voters. Edited May 27, 2019 by zugzwang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 25 minutes ago, slawek said: I doubt the new PM would survive this. It seems like a checkmate. Sure. The Tories can't possibly go to the country again without having delivered Brexit. On the other hand, a no deal Brexit, whether by default, sleight of hand, hook crook or whatever, is their only real hope. But not everyone sees it that way: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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