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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.


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2 hours ago, hurlerontheditch said:

what did you vote for? did every one vote for exactly what you THOUGHT brexit was ?

 

as this process has developed it seems there are numerous types of brexit.

 

Democracy would be going back to ask the people what they want now, now that the options have been fleshed out a bit and unicorns dont exist

Do you mean now that we know just what extraordinary lengths the corporate, banker, political establishment are prepared to go to in order to get what they want?

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I do.   https://twitter.com/housepricemania

1409 pages....you guys should have your own forum !!!

Oh OK. Shame that really, but hey it looks like @IMHAL helped us both out. Nice repost though, thanks ! Any thoughts ?  

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1 minute ago, Bruce Banner said:

Yup, Tories choosing to interpret the result as a reaction to their failure to deliver Brexit, conveniently ignoring the rise of the LD vote.

I agree we are a step closer to remaining in the EU and, from his demeanour this morning, Farage knows it too. All he has left is bluster, but he does bluster well..

Both LD and BP have gained, IMHO, from clarity over their brexit stance. I honestly didn't sense any particular mood in Farage this morning, just seems knackered.

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32 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

My post is in black and white and entirely comprehensible.

When you say "play nicely" I think you mean I should pander to people who want to misrepresent the truth. I spent years doing that and learned my lesson. That's exactly what they want. Now I just point out idiocy and lies when I see it. If you don't like it, don't do it.

As I already showed, your own side is fractured. You're disowning your own voters because their views on what brexit should be don't align with your views. Try to spin this with the same tricks that worked to win the referendum, more obfuscation, but reality catches up with lies eventually. 

You do not have a majority for a no deal brexit. No matter how many ways you try to spin it.

leave or stay answer was LEAVE.....it's that simple....we dont get to do the referendum again based on the style of leaving

 

as for "When you say "play nicely" I think you mean I should pander to people who want to misrepresent the truth. I spent years doing that and learned my lesson."

No i meant your slur against me being unable to read or understand your post.....and you have taken it off on another tangent in the above.....

 

 

Edited by Spindler
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6 minutes ago, Spindler said:

leave or stay answer was LEAVE.....it's that simple....we dont get to do the referendum again based on the style of leaving

 

Then why are your own voters saying people who support the WA aren't true brexiters? If you're discounting them, then I'm afraid you've lost your majority.

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5 minutes ago, hurlerontheditch said:

 

i was pretty clear. speak to 100 leave voters and see how many interpretations you  get on it..

This is just an argument for no change ever. Specious.

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1 hour ago, Spindler said:

we voted to leave ...you had your chance to have a say with a stay vote....now you want to undo leave with shennanigans around how we leave...you lost...leave won....even those leavers who refuse to accept leave means leave regardless of how had their chance....i think the establishment has used the scenario of how to leave has sodded  the whole thing up (maybe deliberately) the establishement has always been remain...they have not delivered brexit no deal or with a deal....the groundswell of anger can be seen in a political party 6 weeks old trouncing a party like the tories who are nigh on 200 years in this business....

It's amazing !

I can see the force of the remainers behind the lib dems and the greens and that is a powerful force who are determined to undo the referendum result.....they are indeed a threat to brexit....but fact is they had a chance in the referendum they LOST...

If you undo the results of that referendum we are in a whole world of poop.........you can thanks Cameron for his lack of planning for a leave win.....he really is the architect of this....a clueless soulless little rich guy......he should have been impartial on brexit but he threw the power of the establishment and whitehall at stopping a leave win.....he used the BoE governor....he brought over the POTUS Obama t threaten us with " back of the  queue"

Leave Won in the face of all that......I am not sure Brexit will happen with nearly half half the country against but we had a vote and remainers have sought to undo this ever since by means mostly foul.....if brexit does happen itll be because the Tories face oblivion if they dont now become determined to push this thing over the line

Surely they must see Corbyn sitting on the fence has damaged him....they need to decide Brexit or no Brexit and if that has to be a hard brexit so be it....

The bad news for remainers(and tbh for all of us) is tories put themselves first.....party before country ....Hitchens said long ago all they care about is having their hands on the levers of power......sad but true....we are heading for no brexit or a hard brexit from what i can see......but i cannot see how you an undo that referendum.....a second referendum solves nothing....Pandoras Box is opened.....

I detect a lot of pain in your postings. Chin up lad. 

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12 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

I very much doubt it, but the fact that no deal is now perceived as back on the table makes it less likely, in my opinion.

 

Silly question, but can`t a hardline Brexit PM come in and just prevent Parliament from sitting till October 31st?

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4 minutes ago, what said:
 

Silly question, but can`t a hardline Brexit PM come in and just prevent Parliament from sitting till October 31st?

...be on their hols for much of that time.....I very much doubt there will be anything 'hardline', the risks and resentments will not be worth it.;)

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14 minutes ago, Si1 said:

This is just an argument for no change ever. Specious.

nope

 

change is needed. there is unrest in the country which needs to be resolved. there needs to be compromises on both parts. the EU needs reform and it is better for the UK to remain in it and lead this reform , in my opinion

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8 minutes ago, what said:
 

Silly question, but can`t a hardline Brexit PM come in and just prevent Parliament from sitting till October 31st?

Maybe. A very dangerous game to play. If Boris tries to run down the clock he will find himself on the pointy end of a vote of no confidence 

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3 minutes ago, hurlerontheditch said:

change is needed. there is unrest in the country which needs to be resolved. there needs to be compromises on both parts. the EU needs reform and it is better for the UK to remain in it and lead this reform , in my opinion

If there was any level of belief that EU reform was possible Remain would've won the referendum. That opportunity has passed, at least as far as the UK and the EU are concerned, and no amount of scrabbling around for desperate excuses to ignore one of the few truly democratic votes we've ever had will change that.

It could be that Brexit is one of the things that'll push the EU to change but those at the top of it don't seem to be at all keen on the idea - like many they'll respond to any hint that there's anything wrong with their position by digging in, not with introspection.

Edited by Riedquat
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3 minutes ago, hurlerontheditch said:

nope

 

change is needed. there is unrest in the country which needs to be resolved. there needs to be compromises on both parts. the EU needs reform and it is better for the UK to remain in it and lead this reform , in my opinion

What reform does the EU need?

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7 minutes ago, what said:
 

Silly question, but can`t a hardline Brexit PM come in and just prevent Parliament from sitting till October 31st?

I think it would be difficult if a clear majority in Parliament is against it.

As a backstop, in exceptional circumstances, there is also "Reserve Power" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_power

To appoint a Prime Minister of her [his] own choosing. This was last done in Britain in 1963 when

 Elizabeth II appointed Sir Alec Douglas-Home as Prime Minister, on the advice of outgoing Harold Macmillan.
  • To dismiss a Prime Minister and his or her Government on the Monarch's own authority. This was last done in Britain in 1834 by King William IV.

If we had a PM hell bent on a hard Brexit against the wishes of parliament, perhaps parliament could ask HM to exercise her constitutional power to dismiss that PM and appoint another?

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2 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

If there was any level of belief that EU reform was possible Remain would've won the referendum. That opportunity has passed, at least as far as the UK and the EU are concerned, and no amount of scrabbling around for desperate excuses to ignore one of the few truly democratic votes we've ever had will change that.

So Leavers are now deciding which vote is truly democratic?

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5 minutes ago, hurlerontheditch said:

nope

 

change is needed. there is unrest in the country which needs to be resolved. there needs to be compromises on both parts. the EU needs reform and it is better for the UK to remain in it and lead this reform , in my opinion

with this huge political groundswell the Eu still have no interest in reforming.... they still show no particular signs....Le Pen...Farage...Italian populists......AfD in Germany....

Just in the last weeks this man has been telling Uk voters to vote for Change UK....because thats what HE WANTED...the likes of him...Barnier...Juncker have no intention to reform.....

How on earth would you get them to reform ? If they are not listening now when will they ?

image.png.f3494543dc240b42f73c706ab24b831b.png

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2 minutes ago, hurlerontheditch said:

nope

 

change is needed. there is unrest in the country which needs to be resolved. there needs to be compromises on both parts. the EU needs reform and it is better for the UK to remain in it and lead this reform , in my opinion

Europe has been used as the scapegoat.....if I could point a finger as to why so many feel disaffected it is because large parts of our country the people have felt ignored and forgotten...we have huge pockets of wealthy living in the south and London who have nice train lines, bridges and airports built for them, money thrown at them, jobs given to them, services created for them.....post code lottery in so many ways....special flowers grow in special places.....you do not see that kind of inequality divide in other European countries.;)

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14 minutes ago, Spindler said:

but the referendum has been won....to LEAVE.....

More obfuscation and it's why I no longer have sensible discussions with most leave voters. It is impossible, because you don't care. You only care about achieving your cult objective.

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3 minutes ago, winkie said:

Europe has been used as the scapegoat.....if I could point a finger as to why so many feel disaffected it is because large parts of our country the people have felt ignored and forgotten...we have huge pockets of wealthy living in the south and London who have nice train lines, bridges and airports built for them, money thrown at them, jobs given to them, services created for them.....post code lottery in so many ways....special flowers grow in special places.....you do not see that kind of inequality divide in other European countries.;)

If Europe is the scapegoat then how do you account for the growth of Eurosceptic parties right across the EU? The fact is that dissatisfaction has been growing across the EU for a number of years, not just here. The EU is failing; if it weren't you wouldn't be where we are now.

It's all very well to talk about reform but the core EU institution - the Commission  - pursues an integrationist agenda come what may and will not be deflected, so all the talk of remain and reform is bunkum.

The only way the EU will change is if there's a crisis and it is forced to change; it will not embrace change willingly.

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