Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
GreenDevil

Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

 

Who owns it, who sails on it, who commands it, who sends it to war?

I guess the people who paid for it, us. Popeye. Us?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Fourth time lucky: May's pitiful gambit

She is going to drop her attempt to hold another straight yes-or-no vote on her deal and instead bring forward the legislation that would enact it. This will then function as the fourth attempt to get it through the Commons.  politics.co.uk

If you don't get what you want first time keep voting until you do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Interesting.... the UK nor the EU are direct democracies. We shove most decisions further up the chain where compex issues are dealt with by supposedly 'competent' representatives, that take into account the interests of the countries they represent.

Isn't this the same carp that Farage keeps banging on about. It's those nasty EUropeans who are taking our sovereignty away from us (no mention of joint responsibility for common purpose....oh no!). It's just a variation of blame 'the other'. Fit's very well into Orbans 'illiberal democracy' agenda where he distracts you with the nasty EU meme whilst he takes away your liberties with the other hand.... until you have none left that is. 

And supposedly bright people fall for this .... astounding. 

It's pretty much how that sort of leader has always risen to power. Enrage the people against an external enemy. Very dangerous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Interesting.... the UK nor the EU are direct democracies. We shove most decisions further up the chain where compex issues are dealt with by supposedly 'competent' representatives, that take into account the interests of the countries they represent.

Isn't this the same carp that Farage keeps banging on about. It's those nasty EUropeans who are taking our sovereignty away from us (no mention of joint responsibility for common purpose....oh no!). It's just a variation of blame 'the other'. Fit's very well into Orbans 'illiberal democracy' agenda where he distracts you with the nasty EU meme whilst he takes away your liberties with the other hand.... until you have none left that is. 

And supposedly bright people fall for this .... astounding. 

Orban appeals to the basic. The basic is nationalism; rooted in culture and history it trumps democracy anytime.

In 2015 Merkel opened the door to immigrants, an astoundingly and uncharacteristic error. The idea that Europe was going to be flooded by a wave of immigrants undermining the culture is ammunition to the likes of Orban. Undermining your own culture is a sure fire way of encouraging the likes of the Orban's of this world because it has salience with the vast majority.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, highYield said:

That's a new one - make a figure up, and tell anyone who queries it DYOR.

I said about 75% of successful degree educated people. Meaning high income graduates (such as MPs), so once again you ignore the point and create a strawman.

I don't know why I bother as we already know data analysis is a subject that is beyond you, but anyway. 

Being on a higher (top third) income is, however, a predictor of voting Remain, with voters in that category being eight percentage points less likely to have backed Brexit, keeping the other variables constant.

So being a graduate gives you a 68% chance of having voted Remain, being a top third income (as MP's are) adds 8% to that making 76%, so "about 75%". 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, highYield said:

That's a new one - make a figure up, and tell anyone who queries it DYOR.

I said about 75% of successful degree educated people. Meaning high income graduates (such as MPs), so once again you ignore the point and create a strawman.

I don't know why I bother as we already know data analysis is a subject that is beyond you, but anyway. 

Being on a higher (top third) income is, however, a predictor of voting Remain, with voters in that category being eight percentage points less likely to have backed Brexit, keeping the other variables constant.

So being a graduate gives you a 68% chance of having voted Remain, being a top third income (as MP's are) adds 8% to that making 76%, so "about 75%". 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, highYield said:

That's a new one - make a figure up, and tell anyone who queries it DYOR.

Worked for brexiters. As GrizzlyDave says, the end justifies the means.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, crouch said:

Orban appeals to the basic. The basic is nationalism; rooted in culture and history it trumps democracy anytime.

In 2015 Merkel opened the door to immigrants, an astoundingly and uncharacteristic error. The idea that Europe was going to be flooded by a wave of immigrants undermining the culture is ammunition to the likes of Orban. Undermining your own culture is a sure fire way of encouraging the likes of the Orban's of this world because it has salience with the vast majority.

Well, we might as well all just roll-over, abandon democracy and give in to the turds and let them run our lives by dictatorship then.... a vote for Brexit is a vote for nationalism and is anti-democratic... at least the truth is starting to come out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Well, we might as well all just roll-over, abandon democracy and give in to the turds and let them run our lives by dictatorship then.... a vote for Brexit is a vote for nationalism and is anti-democratic... at least the truth is starting to come out.

The "truth" is that if people are ignored by their rulers for long enough and are under pressure from outside or are in economic difficulties then the nationalistic side comes out and it is not always pleasant.

A vote for Brexit is not a vote for nationalism because nationalism is always there in a nation state regardless, and whatever its form of government.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, pig said:

Actually what I’ve been reading it’s age plus being RW that messes your head into being a Brexiteer.

The education thing has to be taken with a pinch of salt as back in the day less people took degrees.

If it’s any consolation it might suggest authoritarian dogmatic intolerant people predisposed to moral panics and hysteria over folk devils are amenable to Brexit but they aren’t necessarily ‘thick’. 

Indeed - hole in one. The over 55s make up most of the Brexit party supporters.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-party-poll-nigel-farage-european-elections-voters-a8913371.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, steve99 said:

The daily mail, express, the Murdoch press and so on have a lot to answer for.  Mind you our politicians have stuck it up the backsides of lower paid working people for the last 4 decades, removed their)housing options (like this site is aware of) removed the social mobility which we had spent over 30 years building up, put everyone into a state of perma-debt as the new norm, favoured big business and banking over people and to add to the lack of security re work and housing we now have the Tories introduce UC and the dodgy practices that put them into foodbank territory and so on. An own goal in fact for the two main political parties.

Exactly - good post - I've been saying the same thing. The only part I slightly disagree about is that the Tories and their Brexit mates (I include Farage) have managed to convince 50% of the country the fault for this big decline lies with Europe.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, crouch said:

The "truth" is that if people are ignored by their rulers for long enough and are under pressure from outside or are in economic difficulties then the nationalistic side comes out and it is not always pleasant.

A vote for Brexit is not a vote for nationalism because nationalism is always there in a nation state regardless, and whatever its form of government.

That is a cop out response. The truth is a vote for Brexit is a vote to move us more towards nationalism. The fear of 'the other *'  will have taken poll position in preference to all else.. 

* substitute in the EU, foreigners, people who don't agree with Brexit.... as necessary...

I do agree with your first statement... our politicians have failed the people..... the banks and their cronies, party politics and the elite took preference to the people.... but more of the same with knobs on is not the way to fight it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

Are you interested in Northern Irish politics?

No.

3 hours ago, IMHAL said:

Rock the kasbah.... no plan...... does'nt sound like you have put too much thought into it.

I’m open minded and philosophical.

3 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Who cares?

Me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, thecrashingisles said:

You’re happy to be in a political union with a place whose politics you don’t care about?

Who said I don’t care about Northern Ireland politics?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

That is a cop out response. The truth is a vote for Brexit is a vote to move us more towards nationalism. The fear of 'the other *'  will have taken poll position in preference to all else.. 

It cannot move us to somewhere where we already are. Nationalism is with every nation state.

The "fear of the other" has given 10th place in a most tolerant countries survey, ahead of most large members of the EU.

 https://www.businessinsider.com/the-worlds-most-tolerant-progressive-and-eco-friendly-countries-2017-1?r=US&IR=T#2-finland-finland-may-not-call-itself-a-scandinavian-nation-but-it-certainly-keeps-up-with-its-northern-european-neighbours-in-second-place-it-topped-the-2016-social-progress-index-scoring-highly-on-health-and-safety-24

Bunkum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, highYield said:

I'm in the UK at the moment, and the Swiss friends I have are more interested in skiing, beer and cows! I would say that the Swiss are both very nationalist & pragmatic - no way they'd let furriners own their infrastructure, or get in debt to them. They wouldn't hand over anything Swiss to the Chinese, so are immune to the disadvantages of the BRI. Guess they see it as a way of closening ties with China, as the article says helping development in Asia, with the bonus of some business out of it in specialised areas (railway efficiency/planning springs to mind).

Real shame the 1st referendum went the way it did - otherwise we'd have similar relationships with the EU as the Swiss, but with their freedoms (and resultant political competency in trade, etc). From your article: 

Perhaps May's embracing of Huawei is trying to follow the Swiss a bit. But they're not in Five Eyes 🙄

… and guns?  :)

I see CH admin are covering their bases (15/05/19):

Quote

… The new trade agreement prevents the risk of a legal vacuum with regard to bilateral trade relations with the UK and, in view of the ongoing uncertainty, takes into account the various scenarios concerning future relations between the UK and the EU. In view of the fact that the actual date of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU is still open and that a disorderly withdrawal remains a possibility, the Federal Council plans to apply the agreement on a provisional basis if it proves necessary. The relevant parliamentary committees were consulted at the beginning of the year and approved this approach....

https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/documentation/media-releases.msg-id-75040.html

Who knows, perhaps the EEA/EFTA (Flexcit) will prevail? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I said about 75% of successful degree educated people. Meaning high income graduates (such as MPs), so once again you ignore the point and create a strawman.

I don't know why I bother as we already know data analysis is a subject that is beyond you, but anyway. 

Being on a higher (top third) income is, however, a predictor of voting Remain, with voters in that category being eight percentage points less likely to have backed Brexit, keeping the other variables constant.

So being a graduate gives you a 68% chance of having voted Remain, being a top third income (as MP's are) adds 8% to that making 76%, so "about 75%". 

 

"If you look at Ashcroft's polling data among successful degree educated people about 75% voted Remain" 

From this link on your site: https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/02/how-the-uk-voted-on-brexit-and-why-a-refresher/ it's only 57% for degree educated people?

Now that you have modified your original claim from 'successful' to 'higher earning' it does better resemble the series of Ashcroft data that you were citing for your number. I'm wondering where the 75% is in your supposed source?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

You said you’re not interested, like you’re not interested in Hungarian politics.

Just because I’m not interested in NI politics - yawn - doesn’t mean I don’t care.

WRT Hungry - Mia culpa - I don’t care about their politics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ZeroSumGame said:

If you don't get what you want first time keep voting until you do.

It's the EU way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 221 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.