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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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19 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

I dream that my children will be able to afford a house, get my grand kids into good schools, and see a doctor when they need to.

I’m not really that interested in Hungarian politics; as long as they stick to the ECHR, UN, and NATO obligations.

Are you interested in Northern Irish politics?

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15 hours ago, crouch said:

So have many others. Of course that doesn't mean he's wrong.

It's a very familiar perspective but the monetarist aspects of it are hopelessly misguided. Obviously, there's some merit in owning gold as an asset class but gold as money just doesn't work. Comparing Venezuela to Cuba is also a mistake; most of the Venezuelan economy is in private hands and always has been. The oil industry was nationalised decades before Chavez arrived, about the same time that OPEC came into existence iirc. Endemic corruption is responsible for Venezuela's plight not socialism. Bolivarianismo is what it's called locally; the cult of the Latin American strong man/dictator.

 

Edited by zugzwang

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11 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

It's a very familiar perspective but the monetarist aspects of it are hopelessly misguided. Obviously, there's some merit in owning gold as an asset class but gold as money just doesn't work. Comparing Venezuela to Cuba is also a mistake; most of the Venezuelan economy is in private hands and always has been. The oil industry was nationalised decades before Chavez arrived, about the same time that OPEC came into existence iirc. Endemic corruption is responsible for Venezuela's plight not socialism. Bolivarianismo is what it's called locally; the cult of the Latin American strong man/dictator.

 

Not everyone agrees;

https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/judy-shelton-trump-s-next-fed-choice-favors-a-gold-standard-and-free-trade-4mh6CkyAr0GeFaRhBv7q1Q/

Since 1971 we have lived in a world of fiat currencies. They don't last.

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4 minutes ago, crouch said:

Not everyone agrees;

https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/judy-shelton-trump-s-next-fed-choice-favors-a-gold-standard-and-free-trade-4mh6CkyAr0GeFaRhBv7q1Q/

Since 1971 we have lived in a world of fiat currencies. They don't last.

If the Yen collapses, do you think it will take Japan with it?

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19 minutes ago, Locke said:

Just like Socialism then eh

Or, indeed, Socialists.

Free market capitalism fell over and died in 2008. We're all socialists now. Even the tangerine ape in the Whitehouse.

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27 minutes ago, crouch said:

Why do you think people like Orban get traction? Personality? Yes. But there are more substantial issues.

An extract from a New Yorker article:

"Fidesz and other right-wing parties in the E.U. contend that unelected bureaucrats are making consequential decisions—regulating markets, inflicting rules on technology and economic development, setting quotas of refugee resettlements—without the participation of European citizens; increasingly, voters agree."

Interesting.... the UK nor the EU are direct democracies. We shove most decisions further up the chain where compex issues are dealt with by supposedly 'competent' representatives, that take into account the interests of the countries they represent.

Isn't this the same carp that Farage keeps banging on about. It's those nasty EUropeans who are taking our sovereignty away from us (no mention of joint responsibility for common purpose....oh no!). It's just a variation of blame 'the other'. Fit's very well into Orbans 'illiberal democracy' agenda where he distracts you with the nasty EU meme whilst he takes away your liberties with the other hand.... until you have none left that is. 

And supposedly bright people fall for this .... astounding. 

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47 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

I dream that my children will be able to afford a house, get my grand kids into good schools, and see a doctor when they need to.

I’m not really that interested in Hungarian politics; as long as they stick to the ECHR, UN, and NATO obligations.

Rock the kasbah.... no plan...... does'nt sound like you have put too much thought into it.

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29 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Free market capitalism fell over and died in 2008. We're all socialists now. Even the tangerine ape in the Whitehouse.

In a world of fiat currencies there are no free markets anytime.

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Quote

Fourth time lucky: May's pitiful gambit

She is going to drop her attempt to hold another straight yes-or-no vote on her deal and instead bring forward the legislation that would enact it. This will then function as the fourth attempt to get it through the Commons.  politics.co.uk

If you don't get what you want first time keep voting until you do.

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35 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Interesting.... the UK nor the EU are direct democracies. We shove most decisions further up the chain where compex issues are dealt with by supposedly 'competent' representatives, that take into account the interests of the countries they represent.

Isn't this the same carp that Farage keeps banging on about. It's those nasty EUropeans who are taking our sovereignty away from us (no mention of joint responsibility for common purpose....oh no!). It's just a variation of blame 'the other'. Fit's very well into Orbans 'illiberal democracy' agenda where he distracts you with the nasty EU meme whilst he takes away your liberties with the other hand.... until you have none left that is. 

And supposedly bright people fall for this .... astounding. 

It's pretty much how that sort of leader has always risen to power. Enrage the people against an external enemy. Very dangerous.

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32 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Interesting.... the UK nor the EU are direct democracies. We shove most decisions further up the chain where compex issues are dealt with by supposedly 'competent' representatives, that take into account the interests of the countries they represent.

Isn't this the same carp that Farage keeps banging on about. It's those nasty EUropeans who are taking our sovereignty away from us (no mention of joint responsibility for common purpose....oh no!). It's just a variation of blame 'the other'. Fit's very well into Orbans 'illiberal democracy' agenda where he distracts you with the nasty EU meme whilst he takes away your liberties with the other hand.... until you have none left that is. 

And supposedly bright people fall for this .... astounding. 

Orban appeals to the basic. The basic is nationalism; rooted in culture and history it trumps democracy anytime.

In 2015 Merkel opened the door to immigrants, an astoundingly and uncharacteristic error. The idea that Europe was going to be flooded by a wave of immigrants undermining the culture is ammunition to the likes of Orban. Undermining your own culture is a sure fire way of encouraging the likes of the Orban's of this world because it has salience with the vast majority.

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3 hours ago, highYield said:

That's a new one - make a figure up, and tell anyone who queries it DYOR.

I said about 75% of successful degree educated people. Meaning high income graduates (such as MPs), so once again you ignore the point and create a strawman.

I don't know why I bother as we already know data analysis is a subject that is beyond you, but anyway. 

Being on a higher (top third) income is, however, a predictor of voting Remain, with voters in that category being eight percentage points less likely to have backed Brexit, keeping the other variables constant.

So being a graduate gives you a 68% chance of having voted Remain, being a top third income (as MP's are) adds 8% to that making 76%, so "about 75%". 

 

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3 hours ago, highYield said:

That's a new one - make a figure up, and tell anyone who queries it DYOR.

I said about 75% of successful degree educated people. Meaning high income graduates (such as MPs), so once again you ignore the point and create a strawman.

I don't know why I bother as we already know data analysis is a subject that is beyond you, but anyway. 

Being on a higher (top third) income is, however, a predictor of voting Remain, with voters in that category being eight percentage points less likely to have backed Brexit, keeping the other variables constant.

So being a graduate gives you a 68% chance of having voted Remain, being a top third income (as MP's are) adds 8% to that making 76%, so "about 75%". 

 

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2 hours ago, crouch said:

Orban appeals to the basic. The basic is nationalism; rooted in culture and history it trumps democracy anytime.

In 2015 Merkel opened the door to immigrants, an astoundingly and uncharacteristic error. The idea that Europe was going to be flooded by a wave of immigrants undermining the culture is ammunition to the likes of Orban. Undermining your own culture is a sure fire way of encouraging the likes of the Orban's of this world because it has salience with the vast majority.

Well, we might as well all just roll-over, abandon democracy and give in to the turds and let them run our lives by dictatorship then.... a vote for Brexit is a vote for nationalism and is anti-democratic... at least the truth is starting to come out.

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9 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Well, we might as well all just roll-over, abandon democracy and give in to the turds and let them run our lives by dictatorship then.... a vote for Brexit is a vote for nationalism and is anti-democratic... at least the truth is starting to come out.

The "truth" is that if people are ignored by their rulers for long enough and are under pressure from outside or are in economic difficulties then the nationalistic side comes out and it is not always pleasant.

A vote for Brexit is not a vote for nationalism because nationalism is always there in a nation state regardless, and whatever its form of government.

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  • 190 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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