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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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11 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

I am disappointed in you. Trolling, having a laugh or did you not actually read your link.

Medical related cost inflation is consistently higher than resulting in (the actual position is actually much worse when you factor in rising need):   

Quote

Health experts have said that “Unless further changes are made, the [Department for Health and Social Care] budget, excluding the NHS England and capital budgets, will fall by £1bn in real terms in 2019/20.”


Also you seem to have forgotten that this was to be funded by savings arising from Brexit. As there have been no savings to date (last estimate I saw said not Brexiting is costing the public finances £17bn pa) where is the money coming from.   

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4 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

"The EU’s very existence depends on Britain staying in. Greece and Britain are facing the same three options. The first two are represented aptly by the two warring factions within the Tory party: deference to Brussels and exit. They are equally calamitous options. Both lead to the same dystopian future: a Europe fit only for those who flourish in times of a great Depression – the xenophobes, the ultra-nationalists, the enemies of democratic sovereignty. The third option is the only one worth going for: staying in the EU to form a cross-border alliance of democrats, which Europeans failed to manage in the 1930s, but which our generation must now attempt to prevent history repeating itself."

What Varoufakis appears to be saying is that both the status quo and exit lead to the same dystopian future. He is saying that neither exit nor remain are the way to go.

The third option is something new and may be possible, maybe not. The difficulty with this is that nationalism is a powerful force, more powerful than democracy. And this cross border alliance will be doing what?

Well, he says:

"with a view to conjuring up a democratic surge across Europe, a common European identity, an authentic European sovereignty, an internationalist bulwark against both submission to Brussels and hyper-nationalist reaction."

There is no common European identity and, as it pulls against nationalism, is unlikely to be one. Nationalism trumps, like it or not.

An "authentic European sovereignty" presumably means something with a clearer and more direct link with the people. In effect an admission that this is not the case now.

"An international bulwark against submission to Brussels". Why on earth in a fraternity of nations do you need a "bulwark against submission" against a body which is supposed to be acting under your authority? Odd.

The "hyper nationalist reaction" cannot be divorced from the policies of the EU itself; these things do not arise spontaneously but have arisen because of the dysfunctionality of the EU itself.

And all this fighting is to achieve what? It would appear to save a supranational body which is supposed to operate under our instructions from itself!

And what, in all this could not be achieved by a Europe of nations? Very little from what I can see.

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9 minutes ago, crouch said:

What Varoufakis appears to be saying is that both the status quo and exit lead to the same dystopian future. He is saying that neither exit nor remain are the way to go.

The third option is something new and may be possible, maybe not. The difficulty with this is that nationalism is a powerful force, more powerful than democracy. And this cross border alliance will be doing what?

Well, he says:

"with a view to conjuring up a democratic surge across Europe, a common European identity, an authentic European sovereignty, an internationalist bulwark against both submission to Brussels and hyper-nationalist reaction."

There is no common European identity and, as it pulls against nationalism, is unlikely to be one. Nationalism trumps, like it or not.

An "authentic European sovereignty" presumably means something with a clearer and more direct link with the people. In effect an admission that this is not the case now.

"An international bulwark against submission to Brussels". Why on earth in a fraternity of nations do you need a "bulwark against submission" against a body which is supposed to be acting under your authority? Odd.

The "hyper nationalist reaction" cannot be divorced from the policies of the EU itself; these things do not arise spontaneously but have arisen because of the dysfunctionality of the EU itself.

And all this fighting is to achieve what? It would appear to save a supranational body which is supposed to operate under our instructions from itself!

And what, in all this could not be achieved by a Europe of nations? Very little from what I can see.

What is your proposal in a "Europe of nations" for how to eliminate the need for customs and associated checks for goods travelling across borders?

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20 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

What is your proposal in a "Europe of nations" for how to eliminate the need for customs and associated checks for goods travelling across borders?

A customs union.

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3 hours ago, IMHAL said:

So the wa is pants.....no deal is the wa with knobs on...... the British People are behind a liar with no manfesto who is behind no deal and there is sweet fa else in the pipeline...... sounds like this leave thing is going swimmingly.

I think many will be voting for the BP as a protest that democracy is dieing.

1 hour ago, IMHAL said:

I want a vote between two real deliverable and explicit options, Remain and whatever Brexit option is chosen.

I want those who cheerlead the winning option (whichever that might be) to be held accountable for delivering that option accordingly.

I want those who want to foist a deal on the British People that does not command a majority to be exposed for what they are.... cheats and liars.

The key is to agree the future relationship.

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Given the current situation, with Parliament deadlocked, how can we move forward without a second referendum? 

 

 

A GE could strip out some of the impasse dead wood.

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

The future we make for ourselves but without the vastly expensive, debilitating and time consuming distraction of Brexit.

Just think that is at least 10 years and the best part of £1tn to address current issues, rather than using that time and money to try and recover from the self inflicted damage caused by Brexit.  

 

Do you only see things in financial terms?

1 hour ago, thecrashingisles said:

Looks like the **** end of nowhere  next to a busy round about,,,

Is your name yelims?

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18 hours ago, jonb2 said:

Read it properly.

Like everything else, the government has under-invested - therefore it *would* have had a bill from the EU. The emergency funds were released to sure up hitting its emissions obligations.

Now read the last 2 paragraphs.

Answer me this honestly - if you were living nearby - would you rather the place had low emissions or high ones?

The CO2 emissions are not the worry for those living nearby.

Like many people I think you are getting confused between CO2 emissions and proper pollutants.  You see the same confusion with diesel engines.  Diesels are GOOD for CO2 emissions but bad for pollutants.  Replacing diesel engines with petrol engines will increase CO2 emissions, but local pollution levels would be reduced.

Whatever the excuse, these EU charges will lead to the closure of steel plants in the UK.  The jobs will be exported, and the CO2 emissions will remain the same or more likely increase.

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58 minutes ago, crouch said:

What Varoufakis appears to be saying is.....

With all due respect... Varoufakis is saying that we need to be inside and 'fighting for it' to shape it in order to help save it. The other options are being inside and aquiecsing or leaving which lead to the same dystopia. 

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7 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

You couldn’t make it up...

3b4eea720c9e6993a2237246492975.jpg?15574

CLAUDIA GAMON: “A FEDERAL EUROPE IS WITHIN REACH. IN FACT, WE HAVE NEVER BEEN CLOSER.”

 

 

https://www.thenewfederalist.eu/claudia-gamon-a-federal-europe-is-within-reach-in-fact-we-have-never-been

You can't dismiss this; it's a perfectly respectable position to take.

Whether it's within reach is debatable but, again, I don't dismiss it. The reason is that if the EZ gets into real trouble, which I believe is a distinct possibility, there might, just might, be a "forced" fiscal union in order to save the Euro. If the Euro goes down it will take the EU with it. I can't see it because the German's wouldn't agree but, if it does come about,then that is a very important step to a US of E. It is arguably a necessary condition for such but by no means a sufficient one but it is very important.

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22 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

You couldn’t make it up...

3b4eea720c9e6993a2237246492975.jpg?15574

CLAUDIA GAMON: “A FEDERAL EUROPE IS WITHIN REACH. IN FACT, WE HAVE NEVER BEEN CLOSER.”

 

 

https://www.thenewfederalist.eu/claudia-gamon-a-federal-europe-is-within-reach-in-fact-we-have-never-been

That's a first. A Gammon who doesn't support Brexit.

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2 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

With all due respect... Varoufakis is saying that we need to be inside and 'fighting for it' to shape it in order to help save it. The other options are being inside and aquiecsing or leaving which lead to the same dystopia. 

Of course but I didn't mention Brexit; I offered a critique based on his proposals - his third option.

But anything that needs "saving" must be in a bad way. 

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Press release 14 May 2019

The ruling (ECLI:EU:C:2019:402)

In their ruling the judges of the CJEU, formerly known as the ECJ, said:-

“…in order to ensure the effectiveness of the rights provided for in the Working Time Directive and the Charter, the Member States must require employers to set up an objective, reliable and accessible system enabling the duration of time worked each day by each worker to be measured.”
Under this ruling, we believe that the UK government will have to pass a new law requiring all employers to monitor the times each day when their employees are at work, when they are on a lunch break, etc.
https://facts4eu.org/news/2019_may_eu_controls_us#comments
 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

A GE could strip out some of the impasse dead wood.

These turkeys are not going to vote for Christmas.    

22 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Do you only see things in financial terms?

Time and resources are what make change possible. 

Do you not deal in real world practicalities

11 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

What about an aircraft carrier?

Surely it needs an aircraft carrier?

We have two that we cannot actually defend/use by ourselves.

While we would prefer NATO to be the focus of military cooperation we are keen not to be left out of any EU(in reality European) military alliances.

Pretty clear there is a deal to be done here. 

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2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Time and resources are what make change possible. 

Do you not deal in real world practicalities

I think that means "yes." Or at any rate "don't understand it if I can't measure it."

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5 minutes ago, kzb said:

Press release 14 May 2019

The ruling (ECLI:EU:C:2019:402)

In their ruling the judges of the CJEU, formerly known as the ECJ, said:-

“…in order to ensure the effectiveness of the rights provided for in the Working Time Directive and the Charter, the Member States must require employers to set up an objective, reliable and accessible system enabling the duration of time worked each day by each worker to be measured.”
Under this ruling, we believe that the UK government will have to pass a new law requiring all employers to monitor the times each day when their employees are at work, when they are on a lunch break, etc.
https://facts4eu.org/news/2019_may_eu_controls_us#comments
 

 

 

Will big brother be monitoring when I take a dump?

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Quote

 

We are the REAL Brexit Party, insists Theresa May

In the Commons this afternoon, Mrs May told MPs: 'If people want to vote for a party that not only is a Brexit party but also is a party in government that can deliver Brexit, they should vote Conservative'.

Daily Mail

 

The Brexiters can choose between Brexit party and REAL Brexit Party that can deliver Brexit.

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1 hour ago, crouch said:

There is no common European identity and, as it pulls against nationalism, is unlikely to be one. Nationalism trumps, like it or not.

I refute it thus.

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ryder-cup-2018-quartet-5bb0f7e4cff47e002

 

 

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  • 190 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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