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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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17 minutes ago, highYield said:

If you were an MP you'd be a remainer, like 70% of them. You'd be wishing for a 3rd referendum to take responsibility out of your hands, but terrified of the effect on your lifelong duopoly party career - as the mere act of holding a 3rd referendum will probably destroy the blue wing, and possibly the red wing.

You'd also be worried about declaring that Parliament is not capable, and that the people must decide instead of Parliament - and the long term effect that this would have on your claim to be representative.

It’s certainly the most appealing aspect of a third referendum.

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4 minutes ago, Exiled Canadian said:

If the WA had been voted through then we would have left the institutions of the EU - it is "actually" leaving the EU (albeit on terms you may not like).  Had the ERG supported the govt then the WA would have received a majority in Parliament.

The Remain motions you refer to tried to rule out a "no deal Brexit" - the referendum question did not state that there would be a "no deal Brexit" just that there would be "Brexit".  In fact Farage, Davis etc. made it very clear that in their view we would "easily" get a deal during the 2016 campaign.  I don't see how with this set of facts you can claim that the 2016 result is a mandate for a "no deal" Brexit.

 

 

 

 

"If the WA had been voted through then we would have left the institutions of the EU "

No it is not, please do not pretend otherwise, unless the EU agreed with our solution over the Irish border issue we would be in a customs for ever with no recourse.

All the main players spelled out it was leaving the single market, customs union, the whole shebang.  If someone was put in place in 2016 who did not want to subvert the referendum result by cooking up BRINO with the EU like Farage or Davis then a free trade agreement could have been achieved in the last 3 years.

But May didn't want that or parliament, the plan was clearly try and pull the wool over peoples eyes and tie us to the EU forever in the hope the population is too dumb to notice.

Given the momentum behind the Brexit party in it's short 4 week existence that plan looks like it's going to massively rebound on this parliament.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, highYield said:

If you were an MP you'd be a remainer, like 70% of them. You'd be wishing for a 3rd referendum to take responsibility out of your hands, but terrified of the effect on your lifelong duopoly party career - as the mere act of holding a 3rd referendum will probably destroy the blue wing, and possibly the red wing.

You'd also be worried about declaring that Parliament is not capable, and that the people must decide instead of Parliament - and the long term effect that this would have on your claim to be representative.

If I was an MP, I would be a Remainer if staying in the EU offered a better path forward for the UK and a Brexiteer if leaving did.

As no one has been able to present a credible vision for Brexit that offers a better future for the UK than Remaining, I would vote for revoking A50 and holding a General Election 6 months later at which the parties could present their vision for the  future - with or without Brexit.  

I would have no interest in prolonging my career as an MP, as wouldn't enjoy the job (or living on an MP's salary), but would have no problem saying to the people that the referendum was flawed, the promised Brexit cannot be delivered, there is a stable majority for Remaining over any specific Brexit and revoking A50.     

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2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

If I was an MP, I would be a Remainer if staying in the EU offered a better path forward for the UK and a Brexiteer if leaving did.

As no one has been able to present a credible vision for Brexit that offers a better future for the UK than Remaining, I would vote for revoking A50 and holding a General Election 6 months later at which the parties could present their vision for the  future - with or without Brexit.  

I would have no interest in prolonging my career as an MP, as wouldn't enjoy the job (or living on an MP's salary), but would have no problem saying to the people that the referendum was flawed, the promised Brexit cannot be delivered, there is a stable majority for Remaining over any specific Brexit and revoking A50.     

Which is why you're not an MP, and why MPs are quite different to you.

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19 minutes ago, excon said:

"If the WA had been voted through then we would have left the institutions of the EU "

No it is not, please do not pretend otherwise, unless the EU agreed with our solution over the Irish border issue we would be in a customs for ever with no recourse.

All the main players spelled out it was leaving the single market, customs union, the whole shebang.  If someone was put in place in 2016 who did not want to subvert the referendum result by cooking up BRINO with the EU like Farage or Davis then a free trade agreement could have been achieved in the last 3 years.

But May didn't want that or parliament, the plan was clearly try and pull the wool over peoples eyes and tie us to the EU forever in the hope the population is too dumb to notice.

Given the momentum behind the Brexit party in it's short 4 week existence that plan looks like it's going to massively rebound on this parliament.

Geography and economic reality is what will tie us to the EU. 

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16 minutes ago, excon said:

"If the WA had been voted through then we would have left the institutions of the EU "

No it is not, please do not pretend otherwise, unless the EU agreed with our solution over the Irish border issue we would be in a customs for ever with no recourse.

All the main players spelled out it was leaving the single market, customs union, the whole shebang.  If someone was put in place in 2016 who did not want to subvert the referendum result by cooking up BRINO with the EU like Farage or Davis then a free trade agreement could have been achieved in the last 3 years.

But May didn't want that or parliament, the plan was clearly try and pull the wool over peoples eyes and tie us to the EU forever in the hope the population is too dumb to notice.

Given the momentum behind the Brexit party in it's short 4 week existence that plan looks like it's going to massively rebound on this parliament.

 

 

I agree, you're right with the hard Brexit thing.

Like you I want to see this country burn and fail. I want 3 day weeks and blackouts. Anarchy and blood in the streets. The joy of watching the rest of the world laugh at us. I want the rich to get richer and to sell the remaining few assets we have. To have deals with the Chinese that makes us their bitch. Trousers down for the USA and privatisation of the dreadful NHS. More cuts in services while the Brexit boys fill their pockets. Less regulation so the average man gets what's coming to him. Companies to fail en masse. Private police on the take with intimidation and protection rackets. The young being brought up for the boat and leaving in droves to find work in other places of the world.

I'm with you. Bring it on comrade.💪

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8 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

I agree, you're right with the hard Brexit thing.

Like you I want to see this country burn and fail. I want 3 day weeks and blackouts. Anarchy and blood in the streets. The joy of watching the rest of the world laugh at us. I want the rich to get richer and to sell the remaining few assets we have. To have deals with the Chinese that makes us their bitch. Trousers down for the USA and privatisation of the dreadful NHS. More cuts in services while the Brexit boys fill their pockets. Less regulation so the average man gets what's coming to him. Companies to fail en masse. Private police on the take with intimidation and protection rackets. The young being brought up for the boat and leaving in droves to find work in other places of the world.

I'm with you. Bring it on comrade.💪

Some nice mental onanism there, were you part of project fear?

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1 minute ago, excon said:

Some nice mental onanism there, were you part of project fear?

Surely we want the same thing? - bloody lefties like you are letting the side down.

BTW, you can't have mental onanism. I've tried.

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2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

 

 

If I was an MP, I would be a Remainer if staying in the EU offered a better path forward for the UK and a Brexiteer if leaving did.

As no one has been able to present a credible vision for Brexit that offers a better future for the UK than Remaining, I would vote for revoking A50 and holding a General Election 6 months later at which the parties could present their vision for the  future - with or without Brexit.  

I would have no interest in prolonging my career as an MP, as wouldn't enjoy the job (or living on an MP's salary), but would have no problem saying to the people that the referendum was flawed, the promised Brexit cannot be delivered, there is a stable majority for Remaining over any specific Brexit and revoking A50.     

Define Better Future.

 

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1 hour ago, excon said:

Leave won with the greatest democratic mandate in UK electoral history and if Remain had won by one single vote that would have been the end of the matter for all time.

If you really think that you are not living in the real world.  If 16 million people had voted for Brexit and lost, it would have been the perfect platform for Farage to so exactly what he's doing now.

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1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

Actually, I voted to leave but have subsequently changed my mind.

Me too. I expected Corbs to make a dispassionate lefty case for leaving. Alas, he didn't. After that the deluge.

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15 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

If you really think that you are not living in the real world.  If 16 million people had voted for Brexit and lost, it would have been the perfect platform for Farage to so exactly what he's doing now.

As Nigel Nigel declared himself in 2016, prior to the ballot.

Quote

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it. "

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

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1 hour ago, excon said:

The Withdrawal agreement isn't actually leaving the EU

The withdrawal agreement is leaving the EU. If it had been passed by Parliament and implemented on 30th March 2019 the UK would no longer be an EU member state. No Commissioner, no seat on the EU Council, no MEPs. The EU would now have only 27 members, not 28. If the UK wanted to rejoin the EU it would have to submit an application to join, go through the accession negotiations, sign the treaties and have its membership application ratified by all 27 member states.

That is leaving the EU.

Edited by Dorkins

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3 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

The withdrawal agreement is leaving the EU. If it had been passed by Parliament and implemented on 30th March 2019 the UK would no longer be an EU member state. No Commissioner, no seat on the EU Council, no MEPs. The EU would now have only 27 members, not 28. If the UK wanted to rejoin the EU it would have to submit an application to join, go through the accession negotiations, sign the treaties and have its membership application ratified by all 27 member states.

That is leaving the EU.

To people like @excon, the only acceptable version of Brexit would be if the EU ceased to exist.

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1 hour ago, excon said:

The Withdrawal agreement isn't actually leaving the EU, it's 39 billion for the possibility of trade talks with the added bonus being we never leave the customs union unless the EU agree to it.

It was to paraphrase the mad harridan "a bad deal".

The default in law at that point was to leave without one, but that never happened.

It most certainly was remainers who prevented us leaving on the 29th, you may have been aware of some of the votes in parliament to that effect?

 

 

Leavers are soooo confused about what leave means..... is it any wonder that we havn't.

Perhaps we should just stay at least until leavers can get their act together and decide what it is they want to do with their new found 'freedom' 😋......... 3 1/2 years and counting.... getting boring now......yawn....

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7 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Leavers are soooo confused about what leave means..... is it any wonder that we havn't.

Perhaps we should just stay at least until leavers can get their act together and decide what it is they want to do with their new found 'freedom' 😋......... 3 1/2 years and counting.... getting boring now......yawn....

You stupid or something. Leave means leave.

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2 hours ago, excon said:

Leave won with the greatest democratic mandate in UK electoral history

This is a silly claim. How many times has Britain held a referendum with only two choices? Of course you'd expect a lot of votes cast for the winners. If you wanted to make a sensible comparison, you'd probably conclude that landslides gave the government a greater mandate than

2 hours ago, excon said:

and if Remain had won by one single vote that would have been the end of the matter for all time.

Nigel Farage said before the referendum: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

 

2 hours ago, excon said:

People absolutely knew what they were voting for.

People Leaver conjecture. You know what you were voting for, but you don't know the minds of millions of voters. Nobody does. But if everyone was voting for no deal, for sovereignty only, then it's odd the campaign made so much of the economic benefits. And the campaigner (his name escapes me) who had the idea for the NHS £350m slogan on the bus thinks this swung the vote for Remain. Do you really think you know the voters better than he does?

 

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22 minutes ago, smash said:

You stupid or something. Leave means leave.

I thought Brexit meant Brexit?...... how stupid of me...no wonder leavers are so confused.... this means this but also this means that and sometimes the other.....wow......makes me dizzy thinking about it.

Edited by IMHAL

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British Steel going down the tubes.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/14/british-steel-asks-for-state-help-to-avert-brexit-related-collapse

Quote

Britain’s second largest steel firm has asked the government for emergency funding to prevent it from collapse, blaming “Brexit-related issues”.

British Steel, which employs 4,500 people at the Scunthorpe steelworks and several sister sites, is understood to be in talks with its lenders and the government over a £75m rescue package.

The government is thought to have drawn up contingency plans in case of its collapse. Parts of the business could face administration as soon as Wednesday, according to a report by Sky News.

Talks aimed at saving British Steel, whose Scunthorpe site is one of the country’s last two integrated steelworks and supplies Network Rail, come less than a fortnight after the government provided an emergency £120m loan to the firm.

The money is intended to cover a bill from the European Union over its carbon dioxide emissions.

The business secretary, Greg Clark, told parliament that British Steel would have faced a bill of more than £600m from EU regulators if the government had not given it the support.

The Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy said it could not comment on speculation about injecting fresh funds.

But a British Steel spokesperson said: “The uncertainties around Brexit are posing challenges for all businesses including British Steel, and we are holding constructive discussions with our stakeholders on how to navigate them.

“Last month, the company agreed a short-term bridge facility with government to help it meet its EU emissions obligations, and discussions are continuing about a package of additional support to assist the company address broader Brexit-related issues, while continuing with its investment plans.”

 

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45 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

To people like @excon, the only acceptable version of Brexit would be if the EU ceased to exist.

Thinking about this you could well be right. It would be a case of displacement; the EU for the UKs membership of the EU. Could well be though that the later originating anxiety is mis-placed, unfounded. It will be secreted away in the depths of the unconscious somewhere.

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  • 221 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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