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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said:

By all means share some actual JOs which rebuff these figures.

 I am paying senior software developers £90k, plus a good pension or £575pd on a 12 month contract 

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6 minutes ago, Kosmin said:

In what sense do you think the vote has been ignored?

Something like 37% of the electorate voted to leave and 34-35% voted to remain. Leave campaigners were talking about all the deals we could do, not leaving with no deal, and polls suggest leavers are split on how best to proceed now.

Name one other democratic vote which was so close and where what was voted on was so unclear.

Leave won with the greatest democratic mandate in UK electoral history and if Remain had won by one single vote that would have been the end of the matter for all time.

Parliament voted almost unanimously for the Article 50 withdrawal act.  We then had a general election where all major parties campaigned to uphold the referendum.

If you can't see anything that has been ignored in all that then I would suggest going to read up on basic democracy.

My own personal opinion is the result was massively skewed towards remain given every single political party during the referendum backed that option, we had Obama turning up telling us which way to vote, we had a government backed leaflet going into every household in the country saying the correct option is to remain. Also of course project fear aka the sky will fall in if we leave the EU.

The result would have been far more convincing for leave if it was conducted in free and unbiased manner.

It was also crystal clear, all the major players stated this was a once in a generation vote to leave the EU and all it's institutions.

People absolutely knew what they were voting for.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

LOL

The only way to find out the answer to your question is to hold a 2nd referendum.

Easy, the result of the 2nd supersedes the first.

I think you would be better suited to life in North Korea, democracy is wasted on you.

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1 minute ago, excon said:

Leave won with the greatest democratic mandate in UK electoral history and if Remain had won by one single vote that would have been the end of the matter for all time.

Parliament voted almost unanimously for the Article 50 withdrawal act.  We then had a general election where all major parties campaigned to uphold the referendum.

If you can't see anything that has been ignored in all that then I would suggest going to read up on basic democracy.

My own personal opinion is the result was massively skewed towards remain given every single political party during the referendum backed that option, we had Obama turning up telling us which way to vote, we had a government backed leaflet going into every household in the country saying the correct option is to remain. Also of course project fear aka the sky will fall in if we leave the EU.

The result would have been far more convincing for leave if it was conducted in free and unbiased manner.

It was also crystal clear, all the major players stated this was a once in a generation vote to leave the EU and all it's institutions.

People absolutely knew what they were voting for.

 

Cameron's ridiculous project fear campaign, and in particular the involvement of Obama, put people's backs up and probably contributed to the result.

People thought they knew what they were voting for but in the intervening 3 years many have changed their minds.

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Just now, Bruce Banner said:

Cameron's ridiculous project fear campaign, and in particular the involvement of Obama, put people's backs up and probably contributed to the result.

People thought they knew what they were voting for but in the intervening 3 years many have changed their minds.

"People thought they knew what they were voting for but in the intervening 3 years many have changed their minds."

Pure remainer conjecture.

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1 minute ago, excon said:

"People thought they knew what they were voting for but in the intervening 3 years many have changed their minds."

Pure remainer conjecture.

Prove they haven't.

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56 minutes ago, excon said:

What on earth are you talking about? Parliament passed the Article 50 withdrawal act which said we leave on March 29th with or without a deal.  They are urinating on their own bonfire, not just the "will of the people".

Also of course the stated manifestos of all major political parties in the 2017 elections to respect the result.

If anything I would have thought the Scottish referendum served as a useful lesson learnt to remainers to respect democracy as festering grievances have a habit of growing to monstrous proportions which in this case could blow away our entire political class and put Nigel Farage in number 10.

Both parties manifestos said they would achieve a good deal., the Tories went further promising in Parliament a deal at least as good as staying in. At the moment there is no majority for any specific form of Brexit. 

As you should know, the referendum was advisory requiring only that MP's consider the result when deciding how to vote. As long as they do that they are respecting the result.

If I was an MP I would consider the result of the referendum - a small majority for a Brexit in a vote held 3 years ago for a Brexit that has proved to be impossible to deliver. I would also consider the fact that dozens of polls taken over the past year have showed a stable lead for Remain and that polls for any specific form of Leave v Remain show 60% of people in favour of Remain.

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Bruce Banner said:

Prove they haven't.

I think this is getting a little childish is it not?  That you and fellow remainers claim to know the minds of the UK electorate is straight out the ballacks to Brexit playbook

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2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Both parties manifestos said they would achieve a good deal., the Tories went further promising in Parliament a deal at least as good as staying in. At the moment there is no majority for any specific form of Brexit. 

As you should know, the referendum was advisory requiring only that MP's consider the result when deciding how to vote. As long as they do that they are respecting the result.

If I was an MP I would consider the result of the referendum - a small majority for a Brexit in a vote held 3 years ago for a Brexit that has proved to be impossible to deliver. I would also consider the fact that dozens of polls taken over the past year have showed a stable lead for Remain and that polls for any specific form of Leave v Remain show 60% of people in favour of Remain.

 

Nice try, but you can't argue with a closed mind.

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Just now, excon said:

I think this is getting a little childish is it not?  That you and fellow remainers claim to know the minds of the UK electorate is straight out the ballacks to Brexit playbook

Actually, I voted to leave but have subsequently changed my mind.

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1 minute ago, Bruce Banner said:

Actually, I voted to leave but have subsequently changed my mind.

Sure you did.

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41 minutes ago, pig said:

Name me one moment in the last 3 years of abject clusterfeck that the referendum was ignored ? 

March 29th 2019.

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4 minutes ago, excon said:

March 29th 2019.

Oh I see - so everybody just er took their mind of the ball for a day and forgot to Brexit ?

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44 minutes ago, yelims said:

No wonder you are such a miserable person, you are getting paid peanuts

 

BTW linkedin has better sample based on real data

1485561401_Screenshot2019-05-14at13_30_24.thumb.png.935f223a0ebcf2cb6be1a22df102cb7f.png

792062081_Screenshot2019-05-14at13_30_17.thumb.png.fe33c43b16ba1680fc5c5329cc1e770a.png

1923632298_Screenshot2019-05-14at13_30_10.thumb.png.6c725f7ddcd3297d0f160626d9465c26.png

 

Not a world away from the other other figures. But if you want to use them - fine. Looks like similar wages London/Dublin. Not exactly your grass is greener anecdote. (Though I’m sure Irish grass is greener with all the rain).

Actually I’m a contractor, and I’m also not a software engineer. I thought it might be a helpful comparable.

Don’t worry about me buddy. I’m doing fine.

 

25 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

 

 I am paying senior software developers £90k, plus a good pension or £575pd on a 12 month contract 

I’m not sure what that tells us other than you can earn good money in London.

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3 minutes ago, excon said:

March 29th 2019.

TM put a deal to Parliament that purportedly met all of the red lines set out in the Conservative manifesto.  It was voted down by the ERG.  It wasn't Remainers that stopped Brexit.........

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14 minutes ago, Exiled Canadian said:

TM put a deal to Parliament that purportedly met all of the red lines set out in the Conservative manifesto.  It was voted down by the ERG.  It wasn't Remainers that stopped Brexit.........

The Withdrawal agreement isn't actually leaving the EU, it's 39 billion for the possibility of trade talks with the added bonus being we never leave the customs union unless the EU agree to it.

It was to paraphrase the mad harridan "a bad deal".

The default in law at that point was to leave without one, but that never happened.

It most certainly was remainers who prevented us leaving on the 29th, you may have been aware of some of the votes in parliament to that effect?

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Both parties manifestos said they would achieve a good deal., the Tories went further promising in Parliament a deal at least as good as staying in. At the moment there is no majority for any specific form of Brexit. 

As you should know, the referendum was advisory requiring only that MP's consider the result when deciding how to vote. As long as they do that they are respecting the result.

If I was an MP I would consider the result of the referendum - a small majority for a Brexit in a vote held 3 years ago for a Brexit that has proved to be impossible to deliver. I would also consider the fact that dozens of polls taken over the past year have showed a stable lead for Remain and that polls for any specific form of Leave v Remain show 60% of people in favour of Remain.

If you were an MP you'd be a remainer, like 70% of them. You'd be wishing for a 3rd referendum to take responsibility out of your hands, but terrified of the effect on your lifelong duopoly party career - as the mere act of holding a 3rd referendum will probably destroy the blue wing, and possibly the red wing.

You'd also be worried about declaring that Parliament is not capable, and that the people must decide instead of Parliament - and the long term effect that this would have on your claim to be representative.

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1 hour ago, thecrashingisles said:

A transition period was assumed in the Act, so yes.  The bulk of it was about transferring EU law so there was continuity.

So what's the downside of Farage for a Remainer?  We're already being told we must leave the EU, so why should we be afraid of Farage?

+1

If we are going to leave I want Farage as PM. I want someone who will be held responsible. I don't want any squirming Leavers to have a get-out where they can blame someone else.....

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1 minute ago, excon said:

The Withdrawal agreement isn't actually leaving the EU, it's 39 billion for the possibility of trade talks with the added bonus being we never leave the customs union unless the EU agree to it.

It was to paraphrase the mad harridan "a bad deal".

The default in law at that point was to leave without one, but that never happened.

It most certainly was remainers who prevented us leaving on the 29th, you may have been aware of some of the votes in parliament to that effect?

 

 

If the WA had been voted through then we would have left the institutions of the EU - it is "actually" leaving the EU (albeit on terms you may not like).  Had the ERG supported the govt then the WA would have received a majority in Parliament.

The Remain motions you refer to tried to rule out a "no deal Brexit" - the referendum question did not state that there would be a "no deal Brexit" just that there would be "Brexit".  In fact Farage, Davis etc. made it very clear that in their view we would "easily" get a deal during the 2016 campaign.  I don't see how with this set of facts you can claim that the 2016 result is a mandate for a "no deal" Brexit.

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Exiled Canadian said:

In fact Farage, Davis etc. made it very clear that in their view we would "easily" get a deal during the 2016 campaign.  I don't see how with this set of facts you can claim that the 2016 result is a mandate for a "no deal" Brexit.

Was the "deal" Farage and Davis mentioned as a deal after we had left rather than the process of leaving - it was the basis of a long term trade agreement? That was my impression.

Also the ballot paper was not qualified; it just said stay or leave; it did not specify the basis on which we were to leave.

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  • 219 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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