Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Chunketh]

8 hours ago, highYield said:

In the unlikely event that he's shot down, the FPTP system will just create a new one - when in the next GE, many millions are again disenfranchised when the Tory ball of puss squirms away from the Brexit needle.

The redundant Tory monolith oligopoly needs to be broken up, in a new liberalised political system - as most Tory politicians would argue that the economy needs, from water to power - made more efficient. The ERG <> rest of Tory squabbles shouldn't be behind closed doors, with everyone inside playing leak-to-favourite journalist on their smartphone. The ERG/Farage vs. normal conservatives arguments should be out there in the open, in Parliament, for us to see.

I don't disagree with that. As I've said before, that is the best silver lining we can hope for.

[Chunketh]

8 hours ago, pig said:

I thought QT was interesting in that there was very ‘loud’ shouty support for Brexiteer points but when it came to the point about the contribution of immigrants it sounded like a much broader general applause.

He who shouts loudest says nothing. They should put the audience behind a sound proof screen and give them an upvote and downvote button each.

[GrizzlyDave]

2 hours ago, Chunketh said:

He who shouts loudest says nothing. They should put the audience behind a sound proof screen and give them an upvote and downvote button each.

And all the shouty people in the audience as well.

I think they are missing a trick.

Film it in an empty studio, and get guests to answer questions they have chosen, with no interruptions.

That way there’s no need to waste money filming it outside London.

You could change the title to “Feedback Time”.

[GrizzlyDave]

It’s over.

This is a political game changer.

It was fun while the dream lasted...

 

[IMHAL]

Growing inequality threatens democracy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-48229037

This is what people should be worried about. This is what the government should be trying to address. Becoming more like the USA will make this worse.

[rantnrave]

EU home movers snubbing UK amid Brexit uncertainty

https://www.propertyindustryeye.com/eu-home-movers-snubbing-uk-amid-brexit-uncertainty/

Brexit has deterred Europeans from moving to the UK, research claims.

Analysis by reallymoving.com – based on 115,388 estimates for international removal quotes on its comparison website – found that 23% of users were moving from the European Union to the UK, down from 42% in June 2016.

The UK now accounts for 22% of all moving destinations arranged through the website, down from 66% in June 2016.

Rob Houghton, chief executive of reallymoving, said: “The withdrawal agreement, as it stands, would bring the free movement of people to an end, making it more difficult and expensive for EU workers to come to the UK.

“This has clearly had a significant impact on the decisions people have made about where to settle over the last almost three years, dramatically reducing the flow of people from the continent into the UK.

“Uncertainty over our jobs market and the rights of EU workers in the UK, as well as British citizens in Europe, is encouraging EU residents to look for opportunities elsewhere, in countries where they can settle without the risk of upheaval in the near future.”

[GrizzlyDave]

10 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Growing inequality threatens democracy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-48229037

This is what people should be worried about. This is what the government should be trying to address. Becoming more like the USA will make this worse.

Rock the kasbah

[crouch]

10 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

The EU have  already made their position on this clear. Negotiating all the required "mini deals" will not commence until we have agreed to implement the elements of the WA re. settling our account and guaranteeing the rights of EU citizens resident in the UK. The actual mine deals themselves will then be agreed on whatever terms the EU are prepared to offer us.

Quite how this will be presented as anything other than a national humiliation and the worst possible deal is beyond me but it does appear to be where we are heading, given the panic the rise of the Brexit party is causing within the Tory ranks.  

 

This sounds to me not merely reasonable but likely in the event of no deal.

However, at the end of the day it's a trade off. Do you sign May's agreement now and stay in the EU for another two years or so during which you can do very little in the way of trade negotiations with other countries or do you cut the knot now, accept the humiliation, pay the bill and get on with trade negotiations straight away?

This paints no deal as simply all bad but it's one alternative and, like most alternatives, it has some bad points and some good; it's not unequivocally good or bad. Where do you evaluate risk?

[crouch]

11 hours ago, rollover said:

I agree with you that they have screwed themselves and the country with Brexit.

But I still think, Brexit based on far right populism is undeliverable.

It will be difficult but Tories have to return to the conservative values and not shifting more to the right and be hostage to ERG.

 

How can we have screwed ourselves with something that won't happen for another two years probably. After ten years of being out - yes; but two years before we leave - very odd.

Are we going to get far right populists for the next thirty years? Possible but I can't see it.

[Bruce Banner]

4 minutes ago, crouch said:

This sounds to me not merely reasonable but likely in the event of no deal.

However, at the end of the day it's a trade off. Do you sign May's agreement now and stay in the EU for another two years or so during which you can do very little in the way of trade negotiations with other countries or do you cut the knot now, accept the humiliation, pay the bill and get on with trade negotiations straight away?

This paints no deal as simply all bad but it's one alternative and, like most alternatives, it has some bad points and some good; it's not unequivocally good or bad. Where do you evaluate risk?

The UK is already humiliated, in the eyes of Europe, by the actions of their chaotic government.

 

[crouch]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

The UK is already humiliated, in the eyes of Europe, by the actions of their chaotic government.

 

I quite agree. Can it get any more embarrassing?

[pig]

12 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Is that the issue - Question Time appearances?

Even he wouldn’t dare complain about that!. He’s playing the victim, a popular trope  among populist stricken Leavers and of course demanding attention. What is so  strange about it is that technique seems so 2016. Three years of debating the actual issues  of wall to wall listening and reporting on Brexit and we’re suddenly back to this ? It’s almost cheesy.

[Bruce Banner]

3 minutes ago, crouch said:

I quite agree. Can it get any more embarrassing?

For the country, no.

For me, as an individual, it's a source of amusement when talking to the French (we're in France for a few months). They can't get past the ridiculous image presented by Theresa May. They're obsessed with her shoes which they think are beyond ridiculous.

They're not to keen on Macron either. I jokingly asked one friend "Who set fire to Notre Dame, Macron", he laughed and replied with a wry smile, "probably".

[zugzwang]

A Nuremberg Rally of Stupid.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/13/nigel-farage-brexit-party-event-terrifying-glimpse-future

Quote

“NI-GEL, NI-GEL.”

These days, Farage is being kept on a strict leash by the Brexit party chairman, Richard Tice. Nothing is being left to chance. Even the seemingly unscripted moments are tightly rehearsed. And it was Tice, part millionaire wheeler-dealer, part faux man-of-the-people used car salesman, who opened the rally shortly after 11am with his by now familiar patter of betrayal and humiliation. Politicians, businessmen, the civil service. All of them, enemies of the people. What the country needed was people with the confidence and belief to Make Britain Great Again. A straight lift from the Donald Trump playbook, but no one in the audience cared. They could mainline this stuff all day.

“You couldn’t make this stuff up,” yelled the next speaker, John Longworth, , the former head of the British Chambers of Commerce and Brexit party candidate for the north-east. Except he did make it up. He lied through his teeth. He told the crowd Brexit had won an overwhelming majority at the referendum, rather than a 52%-48% majority. He told them Westminster was denying them their birthright, forgetting to mention the reason the UK had not already left the EU was because of Brexiters voting down a deal for which they would have given their back teeth three years ago. He told them a no-deal, World Trade Organization Brexit would turn Yorkshire into the land of milk and honey.

Others came and went promising much the same. The local MPs Yvette Cooper and Jon Trickett were booed and openly denounced as traitors. The person to my left to whom I had been chatting before the event advised me not to mention I worked for the Guardian. As if I needed telling. This was the blitz spirit being whipped up into a lynch mob. There was a time when a Farage event always came with an element of humour. As if neither he nor his audiences were expected to take him entirely seriously. This is now something else. Ice-cold calculation tapping into a crowd worn down by austerity and waiting on deliverance. No retreat, baby, no surrender.

Next up was Ann Widdecombe. Under any normal circumstances, a celebrity joke, best known for embarrassing herself as a piss-poor panto act on reality TV shows. A former Tory MP who would have been eaten alive in this Labour stronghold. Instead, she too was greeted with unquestioning adoration. Brexit means Brexit. Democracy betrayed by the rich and the powerful. A lifetime of servitude under the EU. LIES. More lies. She even managed to cram in an impression of Theresa May. That’s how bad it’s got for the prime minister. To be taken apart by a national joke.

“NI-GEL, NI-GEL.”

 

[crouch]

11 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

They're not to keen on Macron either. I jokingly asked one friend "Who set fire to Notre Dame, Macron", he laughed and replied with a wry smile, "probably".

Macron is even more distant than our own overlords; I can't see him lasting more than one term.

[crouch]

8 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

A Nuremberg Rally of Stupid.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/13/nigel-farage-brexit-party-event-terrifying-glimpse-future

 

The thing about this sort of thing is there's always a kernel of truth and that's the hook to hang all the demagoguery and flim flam on.

[yelims]

1 hour ago, rantnrave said:

EU home movers snubbing UK amid Brexit uncertainty

https://www.propertyindustryeye.com/eu-home-movers-snubbing-uk-amid-brexit-uncertainty/

Brexit has deterred Europeans from moving to the UK, research claims.

Analysis by reallymoving.com – based on 115,388 estimates for international removal quotes on its comparison website – found that 23% of users were moving from the European Union to the UK, down from 42% in June 2016.

The UK now accounts for 22% of all moving destinations arranged through the website, down from 66% in June 2016.

Rob Houghton, chief executive of reallymoving, said: “The withdrawal agreement, as it stands, would bring the free movement of people to an end, making it more difficult and expensive for EU workers to come to the UK.

“This has clearly had a significant impact on the decisions people have made about where to settle over the last almost three years, dramatically reducing the flow of people from the continent into the UK.

“Uncertainty over our jobs market and the rights of EU workers in the UK, as well as British citizens in Europe, is encouraging EU residents to look for opportunities elsewhere, in countries where they can settle without the risk of upheaval in the near future.”

Yeh I have a good chuckle every week when recruiters try offer positions in England or NI

Beside the rampant racism one gets worse salaries, worse benefits, worse commute, worse housing, paid in British rouble.

Notice how the top of the UK graph (40,000) is where Ireland was over 10 years ago

Edited May 14, 2019 by yelims

[Bruce Banner]

14 minutes ago, crouch said:

Macron is even more distant than our own overlords; I can't see him lasting more than one term.

Agreed, but there was a suggestion on Sky News this morning that Jeremy Hunt is favourite to succeed May. Just when I thought it couldn't possibly get any worse .

[excon]

19 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

A Nuremberg Rally of Stupid.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/13/nigel-farage-brexit-party-event-terrifying-glimpse-future

 

If anyone needed proof of the dunning kruger effected delusions of the left you can always rely on the Guardian.  The longer they keep sneering at everyone who voted against the globalist cabal of the EU the more they recruit for the Brexit party.

If they lost the attitude and tried to explain in clear and simple terms to us thickos why staying in the EU was such a great idea they might actually get some traction.

[crouch]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Agreed, but there was a suggestion on Sky News this morning that Jeremy Hunt is favourite to succeed May. Just when I thought it couldn't possibly get any worse .

I don't see one person in the whole HOC that has the heft to be PM. They're almost without exception careerist non entities whose only loyalty is to themselves.

[winkie]

5 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Agreed, but there was a suggestion on Sky News this morning that Jeremy Hunt is favourite to succeed May. Just when I thought it couldn't possibly get any worse .

Who says we will leave any time soon, who says the conservatives will be in power next time? ?

[pig]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Agreed, but there was a suggestion on Sky News this morning that Jeremy Hunt is favourite to succeed May. Just when I thought it couldn't possibly get any worse .

God help us.

Documentary out on TM negotiating with the EU should cheer you up

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7004691/EUs-chief-Brexit-negotiators-brand-Theresa-insane-foul-mouthed-rant.html

[pig]

6 minutes ago, crouch said:

I don't see one person in the whole HOC that has the heft to be PM. They're almost without exception careerist non entities whose only loyalty is to themselves.

The NHS’s smiling assassin - they’re hoping he can do the same to Britain.

Im increasingly of the mind we get the politicians we deserve.

[Confusion of VIs]

43 minutes ago, crouch said:

This sounds to me not merely reasonable but likely in the event of no deal.

However, at the end of the day it's a trade off. Do you sign May's agreement now and stay in the EU for another two years or so during which you can do very little in the way of trade negotiations with other countries or do you cut the knot now, accept the humiliation, pay the bill and get on with trade negotiations straight away?

This paints no deal as simply all bad but it's one alternative and, like most alternatives, it has some bad points and some good; it's not unequivocally good or bad. Where do you evaluate risk?

I struggle to see the good points of a no deal. The idea that we could recreate anything like our existing trade deals in short order doesn't bear scrutiny.

We have very little capability for conducting trade negotiations and, even supposing we somehow managed to create a world class negotiating team overnight, it would be a 10-20 year project to get even close to replicating what we already have.

The reality is that even if we went for a no deal we would end up having to pay the EU for a transition period where we retained access to all of the EU's trade deals. Also given Fox's non performance to date, I suspect that we would still be in this transition period in 5 years time. 

Some idea of the cost of not getting this right can be seen from the trade deal that the EU signed with Japan. Without the UK having a voice in the final negotiations a deal was done that in combination with Brexit means there is no longer any reason for any Japanese car plant to be located in the UK.  Honda's decision to close their UK operation will be followed by all the other Japanese firms.

[winkie]

Who sees the similarities between Nige and Don? ?