Traktion Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Confusion of VIs said: You are right it's not complicated and could be done by any competent developer. However, doing it in a way that wasn't immediately apparent to anyone with knowledge of how to detect such activity is much harder. It depends how hard they are trying to detect it and how long It takes them to respond to it. You could create numerous cheap domain long before. You could use a name generator to make them looks like genuine addresses and people. You could even use databases of real names and addresses for more realism. None of these is all that complex. If you add manual steps, such as filling the form in and clicking the link, perhaps using 4g to disguise the traffic, you could probably get 20+ submissions per hour, per person. That is with little automation. I highly suspect a team of skilled developers could do much better than this though. They have probably had the software to do it for years. They could likely do as many or few votes on demand. The premise that all votes on the poll are genuine is not satisfactory. In fact, they only need to provide a sufficient lift off momentum before real people start catching wind and joining in, making it go viral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Brexit trade deals will be worse than current EU deals, says Liam Fox's former trade chief The United Kingdom alone can offer significantly less in terms of market access or government procurement than can all of the European Union," Donnelly said. Major trading partners of the UK including Japan and the USA have indicated that they will seek tough concessions from the UK in trade talks because it is a relatively small trading partner." Trade negotiators are not sentimental," Donnelly said. If we do leave huge disappointment lies ahead for all of those Brexiters pinning their hopes on a new era of prosperity driven by the fantastic trade deals that can be negotiated once we leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, jonb2 said: Absolutely. Those that put Thatcher on a pedestal were not affected by her Hayek and Minford religion. Brexiters should be very careful what they wich for as Minford is still around 'advising' the ERG. If they get their way - we'll see the whole thing repeated. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/devastating-future-welsh-manufacturing-predicted-15323164 https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/mps-react-after-vote-leave-11269819 https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/01/28/brexit-to-destroy-u-k-car-manufacturing-lead-to-cheaper-imported-cars-increase-traffic-congestion/#32e33de85c4b " Minford is professor of economics at Cardiff Business School, a former advisor to Margaret Thatcher and supporter of the U.K. poll tax introduced in 1989 and which led to riots in 1990. He heads the pro-Brexit campaign group Economists for Free Trade (EFT), formerly known as Economists for Brexit. This group denies climate change, preferring neoliberal-style environmental deregulation, and has been pushing for a “no deal” Brexit scenario. " I’ve known many Thatcher supporters - I think her genius was ‘political’ - she sang the right tune, it came down to how her pitch perfect expression made them feel. Whatever you think of her you have to remember the despair and frustrations of the seventies. Also I know people in the forces and she is still revered in many quarters. I do respect them immensely and I think understand why, but I’ve always thought it was a telling insight into her popularity. Arguing with Thatcherites was like waving frantically in front of somebody with headphones on. Only when something palpable happens in front of them do they turn the volume down. We’re in this weird attempt at a contrived repetition of history ‘it’s the mess we’ve inherited’, a political ‘austerity’, a PM whose previous actions would have made her poster girl for the NF, the breaking point poster. A desperate gormless acceptance of any ‘change’ ....except it’s deliberately and specifically driven by the elite .into Thatcher/NF on steroids. People won’t vote in a democratic election for Minford and Hayek. So they’re being nudged, music headphones in place, into a post-Brexit situation where the excuse will be ‘ah well, we had no choice, it’s the mess we inherited ...’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 18 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Brexit trade deals will be worse than current EU deals, says Liam Fox's former trade chief The United Kingdom alone can offer significantly less in terms of market access or government procurement than can all of the European Union," Donnelly said. Major trading partners of the UK including Japan and the USA have indicated that they will seek tough concessions from the UK in trade talks because it is a relatively small trading partner." Trade negotiators are not sentimental," Donnelly said. If we do leave huge disappointment lies ahead for all of those Brexiters pinning their hopes on a new era of prosperity driven by the fantastic trade deals that can be negotiated once we leave. I can see clearly, why cabinet ministers has raised the prospect of a second referendum to break the Brexit deadlock. They have good excuse now they can go away with, it is the will of the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 ....people can only decide if given the whole truth and fact.....not hearsay and propaganda.....may the best decision win, may the majority of the people benefit, not just the few, not only the well to do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 May Gone By Monday? According to BBC and Sunday Times, 11 Cabinet Minsters want TM to step down in favour of caretaker PM. Reportedly, she was visited with similar request by the 1922 committee. Is she Sunday Roast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 28 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Brexit trade deals will be worse than current EU deals, says Liam Fox's former trade chief The United Kingdom alone can offer significantly less in terms of market access or government procurement than can all of the European Union," Donnelly said. Major trading partners of the UK including Japan and the USA have indicated that they will seek tough concessions from the UK in trade talks because it is a relatively small trading partner." Trade negotiators are not sentimental," Donnelly said. If we do leave huge disappointment lies ahead for all of those Brexiters pinning their hopes on a new era of prosperity driven by the fantastic trade deals that can be negotiated once we leave. I doubt many were expecting that. What they likely hope for is better tailored trade deals, to suit the shape of the UK's economy, rather than the EU's. In other words, lower tariffs on imports for stuff that we don't make and higher tarrifs for stuff we do. We wouldn't need to worry about the profitability of German car makers, French farmers, Italian wine producers, etc. Maybe Kia cars will be cheaper, maybe New Zealand lambs will offer better value, maybe Argentine or South African wine will be more affordable. Perhaps we will establish better export deals for medicines to these regions, maybe we will keep more of the income from the tariffs we choose to impose, etc. We could also decide which regulations to embrace and which not to. It may be that it is easier to sell our luxury sports cars with less stringent emission targets to the US, Japan or China. V12 aston martins and the like. Of course, these are all relative unknowns. We don't know what deals we will get or how they may change the shape of the UK economy. New opportunities may present themselves, due to lower input costs and a different export market. Sometimes, we just have to take a risk and see how the economy reacts. While people in general don't like change, entrepreneurs love it - it creates gaps for them to fill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, copydude said: May Gone By Monday? According to BBC and Sunday Times, 11 Cabinet Minsters want TM to step down in favour of caretaker PM. Reportedly, she was visited with similar request by the 1922 committee. Is she Sunday Roast? They can't force her out for a while still and I can't see her going voluntarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, Riedquat said: They can't force her out for a while still and I can't see her going voluntarily. I would be surprised if they could agree on a stand in. Deputy is a Remainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Traktion said: I doubt many were expecting that. What they likely hope for is better tailored trade deals, to suit the shape of the UK's economy, rather than the EU's. In other words, lower tariffs on imports for stuff that we don't make and higher tarrifs for stuff we do. We wouldn't need to worry about the profitability of German car makers, French farmers, Italian wine producers, etc. Maybe Kia cars will be cheaper, maybe New Zealand lambs will offer better value, maybe Argentine or South African wine will be more affordable. Perhaps we will establish better export deals for medicines to these regions, maybe we will keep more of the income from the tariffs we choose to impose, etc. We could also decide which regulations to embrace and which not to. It may be that it is easier to sell our luxury sports cars with less stringent emission targets to the US, Japan or China. V12 aston martins and the like. Of course, these are all relative unknowns. We don't know what deals we will get or how they may change the shape of the UK economy. New opportunities may present themselves, due to lower input costs and a different export market. Sometimes, we just have to take a risk and see how the economy reacts. While people in general don't like change, entrepreneurs love it - it creates gaps for them to fill. Weird as it amy seem, i have a brand new Kia SUV, the Owner of the company i work for has a brand New Mercedes SUV, and he wishes he purchased the Kia as it is slightly smaller so fits in parking bays more easily. ( and he knows i paid mush less) Edited March 24, 2019 by prozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 20 minutes ago, Traktion said: I doubt many were expecting that. What they likely hope for is better tailored trade deals, to suit the shape of the UK's economy, rather than the EU's. In other words, lower tariffs on imports for stuff that we don't make and higher tarrifs for stuff we do. We wouldn't need to worry about the profitability of German car makers, French farmers, Italian wine producers, etc. Maybe Kia cars will be cheaper, maybe New Zealand lambs will offer better value, maybe Argentine or South African wine will be more affordable. Perhaps we will establish better export deals for medicines to these regions, maybe we will keep more of the income from the tariffs we choose to impose, etc. We could also decide which regulations to embrace and which not to. It may be that it is easier to sell our luxury sports cars with less stringent emission targets to the US, Japan or China. V12 aston martins and the like. Of course, these are all relative unknowns. We don't know what deals we will get or how they may change the shape of the UK economy. New opportunities may present themselves, due to lower input costs and a different export market. Sometimes, we just have to take a risk and see how the economy reacts. While people in general don't like change, entrepreneurs love it - it creates gaps for them to fill. They can hope all they like, the reality is that trade deals reflect the relative power of the two parties. As well as being inherently less powerful outside of the EU we will have put ourselves in a uniquely weak negotiating position by tearing up 40yrs of deals/agreements with nothing to replace them. The US deal will be a real eye opener, as the US view is that our trade surplus needs to be corrected by opening up our markets and committing to buy billions more of US agricultural goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 42 minutes ago, rollover said: I can see clearly, why cabinet ministers has raised the prospect of a second referendum to break the Brexit deadlock. They have good excuse now they can go away with, it is the will of the people. Which people ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 16 minutes ago, copydude said: I would be surprised if they could agree on a stand in. Deputy is a Remainer. Deputy is a Remainer and Michael Gove is now ERG candidate, I can't see Tory agreement. The status quo is still Theresa May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 2 hours ago, jonb2 said: There seems to be a mismatch in enthusiasm FF https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/brexit-backing-blockade-labelled-pathetic-16016771 https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/local-news/brexit-demonstrators-plan-disrupt-brittany-2677264 Including Farage's washout address Obviously, I live in a remain area and work in a leave area. Remain seat = City centre/suburb near university near bus station and weekends off. Leave seat = Rural mix of poor and wealthy retired and self employed spread over a large area. The second lot are not going to waste their time on a march which ..... what for exactly they won? Farage made a mistake I think a lot of Brexit folk wanted to give the EU/Government a kicking and expected a compromise. I certainly dont think they are going to spend money or effort marching about for it. Also this farage march crap gives off the wrong signal that signal being game over in 2016. Its is obvious that the remain side are desperately clutching to anything and to give them another gift is pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, Ghostly said: I don’t like the democratic will of a majority being overturned by a minority. Or people resorting to insults without tackling the issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, rollover said: Deputy is a Remainer and Michael Gove is now ERG candidate, I can't see Tory agreement. The status quo is still Theresa May. Gove is a not a hard brexiter so will be shat on both sides. Good performer though if I have to be bored shitless watching this stuff in parliament it may as well be delivered well. May and Corbyn zzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: They can hope all they like, the reality is that trade deals reflect the relative power of the two parties. Indeed they do and this is an important point. But they also represent the interests of both parties and the UK "interest" is diluted because we are part of a much larger grouping. Outside this is no longer an issue. It does not mean we will get a better deal than now; it does mean we will get a different deal. Which is "better" in total effect remains to be seen. The point I'm making is that just because you are smaller does not mean that you get a "worse" deal ipso facto; the trade offs are different. 14 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: The US deal will be a real eye opener, as the US view is that our trade surplus needs to be corrected by opening up our markets and committing to buy billions more of US agricultural goods. You may be right but, again, there are trade offs and this remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, pig said: Extraordinairy number but... Million marchers yesterday, the petition seems to have gone viral after Mays tv address (certainly radically changed my opinion !) and the country has been driven into an abject crisis by a Tory elite (with the aid of populism lol). Im starting to believe that number could get substantially higher. Maybe in Westminster. In reality it was a nice sunny day today kids where playing food was in the shops and I did not have to skin a single rat. If this is an abject crisis, what is it called when we have actual crisis. People are really going to be disappointed Leavers as it wont change much. Remainers because we wont all die Edited March 24, 2019 by Fromage Frais Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 52 minutes ago, copydude said: May Gone By Monday? According to BBC and Sunday Times, 11 Cabinet Minsters want TM to step down in favour of caretaker PM. Reportedly, she was visited with similar request by the 1922 committee. Is she Sunday Roast? and who would they replace her with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, prozac said: and who would they replace her with? Anyone she is just too boring. She called a bloody press conference and I was sitting there expecting alien invasion or resignation....... but got the same old shit. What a waste of time Edited March 24, 2019 by Fromage Frais Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, Fromage Frais said: Obviously, I live in a remain area and work in a leave area. Remain seat = City centre/suburb near university near bus station and weekends off. Leave seat = Rural mix of poor and wealthy retired and self employed spread over a large area. The second lot are not going to waste their time on a march which ..... what for exactly they won? Farage made a mistake I think a lot of Brexit folk wanted to give the EU/Government a kicking and expected a compromise. I certainly dont think they are going to spend money or effort marching about for it. Also this farage march crap gives off the wrong signal that signal being game over in 2016. Its is obvious that the remain side are desperately clutching to anything and to give them another gift is pointless. I could agree, Farage Leave protest march is crap and signaling game over. ERG should lock him somewhere for next two weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Fromage Frais said: Anyone she is just too boring. She called a bloody press conference and I was sitting there expecting alien invasion or resignation....... but got the same old shit. Can you name someone, who you think would be better than her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 21 minutes ago, Ghostly said: I don’t like the democratic will of a majority being overturned by a minority. Or people resorting to insults without tackling the issues. That's why the least worst option is still May's deal, with a public vote to accept or reject it as this will be required to get it through Parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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