Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
GreenDevil

Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

Recommended Posts

On ‎14‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 08:27, crouch said:

The word "reform" begs a large question: reform to what? The EU is a teleological project whose end is "ever closer union of peoples and states" and whose means are largely presecriptive. If you doubt the political end and the means are inflexible then where does that leave the notion of reform. As Abraham Lincoln once said about a federal structure (and I paraphrase heavily) - it needs to be firm enough for everyone to move together yet loose enough to allow states to move their own way. Notwithstanding that the EU is a confederation not a federation does the EU have that delicate balance correct? I have my doubts.

I used the word regress previously but I think rollback is more appropriate. I think the EU needs to rollback to the pre-Maastricht model and unwind the Eurozone to just those countries with the political and economic heft to manage a smaller Eurozone and the agreed acquis. I suppose this would be a hybrid confederation/federation model.

Ever closer union was a founding principle of the U.S.E. and, since there is consensus from both sides that it is not achievable, the EUrophiles now have their very own Unicorn to tend to.

That said, I haven't found a more persuasive plan for Europe than Flexcit.

Quote

… 

This structure preserves the essential difference between the supranational EU and the intergovernmental UNECE.

10.5 A community of equals In breaking the EU-centricity, and separating political integration from trade, the adoption of UNECE as the administrative body also restores political neutrality to trading agreements. Where the Association Agreement with Ukraine was seen as a "Trojan Horse" for political integration, UNECE-led initiatives have no political overtones. Notwithstanding political relations between, say, Russia and the European Union, trading agreements can proceed independently.  
 
Because the relationship is based on geography rather than seeking political integration, there is no conditionality. Vexed matters such as freedom of movement are separated and access to the market no longer relies their adoption...  
 

 http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, zugzwang said:

All the exciting proposals are coming from the Left, including but not limited to a Citizen's Income, a Land Value Tax, the New Green Deal, Complexity Economics and MMT, a National Investment Bank, Lifetime Tenancies, a national program of general needs social housing.

And Corbyn's right not be fussed over Brexit. In the greater scheme of things it really isn't important.

Most of those proposals were influential in my decision to vote for Labour but, IMHO, Corbyn's qualities don't compensate for his poor performance to date as Red Leader whilst the Blair Bandits are circling.

We disagree on Corbyn's handing of Brexit. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just got an email from my brother who lives in France. Apparently Brits in France are starting to panic and he's been getting loads of requests for advice through Facebook. The woman at something called a Prefecture carried an air of "we expect you to leave after Brexit" but she gave up and he now has a temporary EU/EEA carte sejour. His French driving license is now in its 13th month of being processed. The people contacting him for advice are worried that they will become undocumented immigrants. And nobody in our sh1t show of a Gov. could give a feck..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, pig said:

Yes it’s rather odd this intransigent not answering questions  thing isn’t it - I wonder what’s going on ?   :) 

Interesting article though, if it’s a genuine aspiration for the ERG it helps build up a picture of where they are trying to force us.

’If’ that big little word !  It’s been a divisive nationalism first and then flapping around trying to find a viable model - Id imagine a authoritarian/unfettered capitalist model would tick a lot of boxes for these guys provided they could hollow out any socialist pretentions.

So then is Singapore your vision for Britain ?

As the laksa and rich mingling with poor are unlikely to take off in the UK  presumably it’s the good state schools, military service and authoritarian government ?

Or perhaps more the social model, the loyalty sacrifice and inequality ?

:lol:

Let me know when you've diagnosed your intellectual challenge and we can discuss a UK vision and/or your predilection for scapegoating the majority. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Traktion said:

I can imagine that going down like a lead balloon. It is clear any extension would be used to strengthen the EU's position, rather than help to make the split more amicable.

It's time to just leave with what dignity we have left, then start rebuilding again on a fresh footing... preferable starting with a general election to wash this rotten lot out.

'Make me an offer'

'But you're leaving - we don't have to make you an offer,'

Come on what do you want?'

'Make me an offer.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Itssimple said:

Sounds like a competition. Most European?  How long before they hold a flag waving rally with daft salutes. 

 

Underneath the hyperbole this lot a far right. Worrying times.

first EU Media Literacy Week will kick off next week   The first EU Media Literacy week will take place from 18 – 22 March, with more than 200 events in Brussels and all around Europe.  This Commission initiative aims to promote media literacy and support the fight against disinformation. Commissioner for Digital Economy and Society Mariya Gabriel said: “In Europe, the teaching of Media Literacy is not systematic, it is often difficult for our citizens to distinguish between true and false information. We trust we must together support media literacy in order to ensure pluralism, inclusion and better defend our values. We have to further empower citizens to make informed choices and participate more effectively in the democratic process. This is why the European Commission is launching the first European Media Literacy Awards.”  For the latter awards, more than 130 participants are competing with media literacy projects in three categories: most educative, most European, and most innovative projects. The awards ceremony will take place during a high-level conference on 19 March in Brussels, which will bring together European institutions, audiovisual regulators, media experts, journalists, representatives of Member States and citizens in order to discuss the role of media literacy navigating the modern news environment, the evolution of quality journalism in the digital world, sources of support from public authorities, and technological innovations. More information on the awards, the conference and local activities that are part of #EUMediaLiteracyWeek is available here. (For more information: Nathalie Vandystadt – Tel.: +32 229 67083 – Marietta Grammenou Tel.: +32 229 83583)  

:lol:

Juncker had better be careful...

Quote

Attacks mount against 'master of lies' Juncker...

… Ministers and their spokespeople across the eurozone had first denied or refused to comment on a report which appeared in Spiegel Online revealing that a secret meeting of senior EU officials was being held in a Luxembourg castle to consider a Greek exit from the euro...

https://euobserver.com/economic/32294

… and:

Quote

Jean-Claude Juncker profile: 'When it becomes serious, you have to lie'...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Itssimple said:

Just shows how worried they are. If all was going swimmingly well this would not be important. Totally out of touch with the masses

 

Europe that Protects: implementing the EU's Action Plan against disinformation and measures to secure free and fair elections [updated 15/03/19 at 13:20] With the European elections fast approaching, the European Commission and the European External Action Service, in coordination and cooperation with the other EU institutions and EU Member States, have stepped up their action to make sure that our citizens' choices are free from manipulation, disinformation, or any interference coming from inside or outside the EU. ...

Indeed, so no progress since last year...

On ‎24‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 14:04, Sheeple Splinter said:

... when the EU elite have been more concerned with preening and baubles.

Why did the EU fail to initiate their own Belt & Road initiative? Here's one example that highlights the success and failure of two trading powers:

Image result for piraeus port 2018

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/26/world/europe/greece-china-piraeus-alexis-tsipras.html

I would have preferred the EU to have fostered an unerring faith amongst citizens in its institutions and achievements. It failed and continues to do so.

… :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Itssimple said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47578888

Sec claims VW mislead investors over bonds.

VW have  200bln  bonds.

ECB..... hello?

Surely the good folk of Greece should be given a new car...... winners alround.

Plus VW could shift some production to Greece for a win - win deal...

Quote

… VW is also pondering a shift of production from Germany to a low-cost factory in eastern Europe around 2022 to bolster profitability and make room for electric vehicles that’ll be made at its domestic sites...

 … oops, too far south?

P.S.

Dirty Money VW (Dirty Diesel) documentary here:

https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80118100

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

 

 

Trying to make light of it doesn’t make this inconvenient truth go away?

Why does the EU need an Army?

Why does the EU need an Aircraft Carrier?

Germany and France are free to do whatever they want, if they want to build white elephant projects why is that an issue to you? Do you have a problem respecting their sovereignty?

European != EU

By your reasoning UK is already a part of a European army, which obviously has nothing to do with EU.

 

Do you have an issue with other countries cooperating? Why? Not ever country wants to turn it's back on its neighbours and become a North Korea in Atlantic as is your and your idol Corbyns dream.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Quote

 

Brexit no-deal ferry contracts could cost tens of millions  of additional pounds if Brexit is delayed.

The government will be forced to spend tens of millions of additional pounds to keep its no-deal ferry contracts in place if Brexit is delayed.

Whitehall source said the contingency sailings had to be ready for the original Brexit date, and referred to the possibility of further payments as "the cost of keeping no-deal on the table".

The NAO also said that the cancellation of all three contracts prior to the end of March would incur a maximum termination charge of £56.6m.

BBC

 

The No deal Brexit just keep giving the brexit dividends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, yelims said:

Germany and France are free to do whatever they want, if they want to build white elephant projects why is that an issue to you? Do you have a problem respecting their sovereignty? If they stick an EU flag on it - then Ireland is responsible for it Just is much as France and Germany. Are you comfortable with that - seeing as Ireland is neutral? Are you?

European != EU wrong.

By your reasoning UK is already a part of a European army, which obviously has nothing to do with EU. The key is who is in charge and what is the role. 

Do you have an issue with other countries cooperating? Why? Not ever country wants to turn it's back on its neighbours and become a North Korea in Atlantic as is your and your idol Corbyns dream. Cooperating. No of course not. I don’t need an anthem or president for that.

C+

As ever the subtlety of the detail is lost on you.

non-eu-countries-flag-maps-4665173.jpg

Edited by GrizzlyDave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, rollover said:

You never know if you get kiss or he will slap you

 

Roman Roady very much liked that video.

However the current favorite is this one:-

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@GrizzlyDaveNeither Macron nor Merkel are in charge of EU as has been repeatedly illustrated to you and your retarded brexiter prime minister. Ireland is neutral, our neutrality is set in Lisbon Treaty, if you have an issue with UK military and arms industry killing people then that is your problem. The EU didn't instruct your beloved Labour to kill a million people in Iraq. In fact the EU continues to critique UK for selling arms to middle east which is leading to murder. That blood is on your hands, trying to blame the EU for your country's evil acts is ******in retarded.

Edited by yelims

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, yelims said:

@GrizzlyDaveNeither Macron nor Merkel are in charge of EU as has been repeatedly illustrated to you and your retarded brexiter prime minister. Ireland is neutral, our neutrality is set in Lisbon Treaty, if you have an issue with UK military and arms industry killing people then that is your problem. The EU didn't instruct your beloved Labour to kill a million people in Iraq. In fact the EU continues to critique UK for selling arms to middle east which is leading to murder. That blood is on your hands, trying to blame the EU for your country's evil acts is ******in retarded.

This isn’t about the UK.

This is about a humble European Coal and Steel Community now wanting a true army and aircraft carriers.

I’m sorry but this collaborative trade body which started with some good intentions has deeply lost its way.

I had a vote and chose not to remain involved in this project.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

This isn’t about the UK.

This is about a humble European Coal and Steel Community now wanting a true army and aircraft carriers.

I’m sorry but this collaborative trade body which started with some good intentions has deeply lost its way.

I had a vote and chose not to remain involved in this project.

And in a couple of weeks UK will be out and brexiters would have to face the elephant in room that all their problems are not due to EU but their own fundamentally undemocratic and ******ed up country. While rest of Europe and World moves on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

This isn’t about the UK.

This is about a humble European Coal and Steel Community now wanting a true army and aircraft carriers.

I’m sorry but this collaborative trade body which started with some good intentions has deeply lost its way.

I had a vote and chose not to remain involved in this project.

"I say deliberately that in all its dreams of wedge-driving Russia could hope for nothing better than the reduction of Britain to the status of observer in Franco-German relations. That would run entirely counter to our Commonwealth interests and to our responsibilities as a world Power, which we share with the United States, and that no doubt is why the Kremlin wants it so very, very much, as Members know if they have studied the Kremlin's outpourings in these last few days."

Guess the date.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, macca13 said:

Think your missing the point of the argument.. 

when the debtor owes billions of €’s its the creditor that’s in trouble If the debtor can’t afford to pay.. 

point being if Greece, Ireland.. etc had said feck off to and refused the bailout.. Germany being the biggest creditor would have had billions in worthless debt.. 

Thats precisely the point. None of the money sponged by the Greeks has been paid back or is likely too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Crashley Banjo said:

I can’t believe they got away with what they did. They are responsible for the deaths of millions. 

Speaking of death

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/exposed-british-made-bombs-used-civilian-targets-yemen

Exposed: British-made bombs used on civilian targets in Yemen

-----

Evil EU making UK sell bombs that kill civilians

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/25/meps-back-call-for-eu-members-to-halt-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia

 

 

Edited by yelims

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • 354 The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.