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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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3 hours ago, rollover said:

What is EU forcing?

You are deluded beyond any reasonable doubt.

Brexit is lose - lose options for both sides. But EU need clarity ASAP what UK wants from Brexit.

It should be all done and clarified in October last year, but two weeks before A50 end, and nobody knows what is going to happen.

And you are still blaming the EU, for what exactly?

You are either deluded or can’t read, I have never blamed the EU for anything, they could never give us as good a deal as staying in. Any deal has to be punitive I.e not good for the UK. If they do not offer an extension by law currently we will move to no deal on the 29th March. If the EU allows an extension they are just extending the mess. 

I struggle with the same question as the 23 June 2016, do we leave or do we stay. I am damn near 50/50 like the rest of the country. Scrap A50 and pretend it never happened (very unlikely), so a no deal brexit on the 29th it should be.

Edited by Confounded

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Just shows how worried they are. If all was going swimmingly well this would not be important. Totally out of touch with the masses. 

 

Europe that Protects: implementing the EU's Action Plan against disinformation and measures to secure free and fair elections [updated 15/03/19 at 13:20] With the European elections fast approaching, the European Commission and the European External Action Service, in coordination and cooperation with the other EU institutions and EU Member States, have stepped up their action to make sure that our citizens' choices are free from manipulation, disinformation, or any interference coming from inside or outside the EU. To this end, implementation of the EU Action Plan against disinformation, presented by the Commission and the High Representative on 5 December 2018, is fully underway. Furthermore, in February 2019 the Commission published reports by Facebook, Google and Twitter (signatories of the Code of Practice), covering the progress made on their commitments to fight disinformation. On this occasion, the Commission asked the platforms to accelerate their efforts as well as to do more across all Member States to help ensure the integrity of the European Parliament elections in May 2019.Vice-President Ansip, Commissioners Jourová, King, and Gabriel will meet representatives of online platforms on Tuesday to discuss further progress on the implementation of the Code of Practice. On Monday, the Rapid Alert System, which was one of the key deliverables under the Action Plan, will be launched. The Rapid Alert System aims to strengthen coordination, analysis and joint responses to disinformation through creating a dedicated digital platform for a network of contact points from the 28 EU Member States and the EU institutions, working in close cooperation with the European Election Cooperation Network. Following up on the measures presented to secure free and fair elections as part of the State of the Union Address of President Juncker in September 2018, Commissioner for Justice, Consumers and Gender Equality, Věra Jourová, has written to national political parties calling on them to ensure transparency of political advertising, to be ready to face cyberattacks and to respect European data protection rules during the campaign.(For more information: Nathalie Vandystadt – Tel.: +32 229 67083; Christian Wigand– Tel.: +32 229 62253; Maja Kocijancic – Tel.: +32 229 86570)  

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Sounds like a competition. Most European?  How long before they hold a flag waving rally with daft salutes. 

 

Underneath the hyperbole this lot a far right. Worrying times.

first EU Media Literacy Week will kick off next week   The first EU Media Literacy week will take place from 18 – 22 March, with more than 200 events in Brussels and all around Europe.  This Commission initiative aims to promote media literacy and support the fight against disinformation. Commissioner for Digital Economy and Society Mariya Gabriel said: “In Europe, the teaching of Media Literacy is not systematic, it is often difficult for our citizens to distinguish between true and false information. We trust we must together support media literacy in order to ensure pluralism, inclusion and better defend our values. We have to further empower citizens to make informed choices and participate more effectively in the democratic process. This is why the European Commission is launching the first European Media Literacy Awards.”  For the latter awards, more than 130 participants are competing with media literacy projects in three categories: most educative, most European, and most innovative projects. The awards ceremony will take place during a high-level conference on 19 March in Brussels, which will bring together European institutions, audiovisual regulators, media experts, journalists, representatives of Member States and citizens in order to discuss the role of media literacy navigating the modern news environment, the evolution of quality journalism in the digital world, sources of support from public authorities, and technological innovations. More information on the awards, the conference and local activities that are part of #EUMediaLiteracyWeek is available here. (For more information: Nathalie Vandystadt – Tel.: +32 229 67083 – Marietta Grammenou Tel.: +32 229 83583)  

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1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

"A dose of direct democracy" hopelessly implemented and mismanaged by two successive  incompetent governments.

The first, Cameron, called the referendum, without thinking through the wording, as a tool to get elected.  

The second, the authoritarian May, an object lesson in pigheadedness and how to browbeat Parliament into submission.

Direct democracy is a good thing, ask the Swiss, but it must be done properly.

Deliberative democracy sounds more appealing to me. 

This is an extreme case but you've got people who've been angling for decades to leave the EU but haven't got a clue how to or what to do when we've left - despite the huffing and puffing nothing more substantial than nationalist vanity. These sort of issues need to be properly threshed out.

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19 hours ago, Gribble said:

Clueless. The German taxpayers has been bailing out the lazy corrupt tax evading Greeks to the tune of hundreds of billiona

Think your missing the point of the argument.. 

when the debtor owes billions of €’s its the creditor that’s in trouble If the debtor can’t afford to pay.. 

point being if Greece, Ireland.. etc had said feck off to and refused the bailout.. Germany being the biggest creditor would have had billions in worthless debt.. 

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6 hours ago, Confounded said:

Why would we stop trading? Even if the EU shuns our products we will find someone globally to take them under WTO terms. The transition will be sorting out/firefighting the issue then spend the next 30 years moving forward as an independent state making decision on our boarders as we see fit. We are a net contributor to the EU, surely that gives us some negotiation power. I have only ever seen this as a leave without a deal or stay in question and thank the vast majority saw it that way also.

What if the EU has been stifling the UK and outside of the EU our economy falls by 7% this year (worse than the GFC....) but next year we are flat the year after we start the recovery and add 5% from then on, meanwhile Europe soldiers on in their economic quagmire, equally as possible as the end of the UK as the remainders feel!

I didn’t say it’ll stop, but It will dramatically reduce due to non tariff barriers.  Tariffs are a mere footnote in comparison.  The SM offers the harmonisation of standards thus goods can be sent frictionlessly across borders.  We come out of that then friction returns and trade is lost.

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7 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

The end state of the WA could easily  be Norway 1.0/2.0 or something similar which would be agreeable to parliament and the public.

Except that we still haven't a clue what that could possibly be. And I seriously doubt we would be any the wiser by the end of the transition period.

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3 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

I didn’t say it’ll stop, but It will dramatically reduce due to non tariff barriers.  Tariffs are a mere footnote in comparison.  The SM offers the harmonisation of standards thus goods can be sent frictionlessly across borders.  We come out of that then friction returns and trade is lost.

On the other hand UK trade with the rest of the world has been growing faster than with the SM. 

So it can't be that problematic.

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4 minutes ago, kzb said:

On the other hand UK trade with the rest of the world has been growing faster than with the SM. 

So it can't be that problematic.

It is when the SM is your largest trading partner.

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42 minutes ago, Itssimple said:

Sounds like a competition. Most European?  How long before they hold a flag waving rally with daft salutes. 

 

Underneath the hyperbole this lot a far right. Worrying times.

first EU Media Literacy Week will kick off next week   The first EU Media Literacy week will take place from 18 – 22 March, with more than 200 events in Brussels and all around Europe.  This Commission initiative aims to promote media literacy and support the fight against disinformation. Commissioner for Digital Economy and Society Mariya Gabriel said: “In Europe, the teaching of Media Literacy is not systematic, it is often difficult for our citizens to distinguish between true and false information. We trust we must together support media literacy in order to ensure pluralism, inclusion and better defend our values. We have to further empower citizens to make informed choices and participate more effectively in the democratic process. This is why the European Commission is launching the first European Media Literacy Awards.”  For the latter awards, more than 130 participants are competing with media literacy projects in three categories: most educative, most European, and most innovative projects. The awards ceremony will take place during a high-level conference on 19 March in Brussels, which will bring together European institutions, audiovisual regulators, media experts, journalists, representatives of Member States and citizens in order to discuss the role of media literacy navigating the modern news environment, the evolution of quality journalism in the digital world, sources of support from public authorities, and technological innovations. More information on the awards, the conference and local activities that are part of #EUMediaLiteracyWeek is available here. (For more information: Nathalie Vandystadt – Tel.: +32 229 67083 – Marietta Grammenou Tel.: +32 229 83583)  

No such thing as objective facts -proven scientifically:

A quantum experiment suggests there’s no such thing as objective reality

Physicists have long suspected that quantum mechanics allows two observers to experience different, conflicting realities. Now they’ve performed the first experiment that proves it.

The idea that observers can ultimately reconcile their measurements of some kind of fundamental reality is based on several assumptions. The first is that universal facts actually exist and that observers can agree on them.

But Proietti and co’s result suggests that objective reality does not exist. In other words, the experiment suggests that one or more of the assumptions—the idea that there is a reality we can agree on, the idea that we have freedom of choice, or the idea of locality—must be wrong.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/613092/a-quantum-experiment-suggests-theres-no-such-thing-as-objective-reality/

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1902.05080.pdf

A Friday afternoon pub discussion point brought to you by kzb

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4 minutes ago, copydude said:

It is when the SM is your largest trading partner.

Most UK trade is with non-SM world.  And it is growing faster than with SM trade, which has more or less flatlined.

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13 minutes ago, copydude said:

Except that we still haven't a clue what that could possibly be. And I seriously doubt we would be any the wiser by the end of the transition period.

Well we know what EFTA (Norway 1.0) is because we were a founding member of it. As for 2.0 it’s not beyond the wit of man to bolt on CU membership.

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55 minutes ago, pig said:

Deliberative democracy sounds more appealing to me. 

This is an extreme case but you've got people who've been angling for decades to leave the EU but haven't got a clue how to or what to do when we've left - despite the huffing and puffing nothing more substantial than nationalist vanity. These sort of issues need to be properly threshed out.

And there we have it in a nutshell "nationalist vanity".   

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5 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Well we know what EFTA (Norway 1.0) is because we were a founding member of it. As for 2.0 it’s not beyond the wit of man to bolt on CU membership.

Oh, I was referring to the second half of your sentence, Dave:  

 . . . something which would be agreeable to parliament and the public

That seemed the tricky bit to me 🤔

 

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12 minutes ago, kzb said:

Most UK trade is with non-SM world.  And it is growing faster than with SM trade, which has more or less flatlined.

Trade via 60 EUs FTAs which we will lose under a no deal.

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15 minutes ago, kzb said:

Most UK trade is with non-SM world.  And it is growing faster than with SM trade, which has more or less flatlined.

It still sounds significant to me.

Taken as a bloc, the EU is the UK's largest trading partner. In 2017 the EUaccounted for 44% of UK exports and 53% imports. ... In 2017, the UK recorded an overall trade deficit with the EU of -£67 billion. A surplus of £28 billion on trade in services was outweighed by a deficit of -£95 billion on trade in goods.11 Jan 2019

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16 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Well we know what EFTA (Norway 1.0) is because we were a founding member of it. As for 2.0 it’s not beyond the wit of man to bolt on CU membership.

EFTA bears no relation to what it was when we founded it as a half-arsed attempt to rival the EEC.

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Quote

 

Are the DUP about to back May's Brexit deal in return for ANOTHER £1bn?

The DUP today edged towards backing Theresa May's Brexit deal when MPs vote for the third time next week as the Chancellor Philip Hammond was brought in as emergency talks turned to money.

Mr Hammond is leading negotiations with the Unionist party who previously grabbed an extra £1billion of funding for Northern Ireland in exchange for propping up the Government for two years until this summer.

Daily Mail

 

The Brexit dividends just keep giving.

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1 hour ago, rollover said:

The Big Brexit Short

 

 

 

Usually when you want to nail someone you record them on hidden camera (there are plenty of examples of this out there with politicians talking to undercover journalists).

Is there a reason there is no footage of what they are saying happened? Perhaps that video doesn't include the evidence and it is somewhere else on a longer / different version? if so please could you post it.

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1 hour ago, Itssimple said:

Just shows how worried they are. If all was going swimmingly well this would not be important. Totally out of touch with the masses. 

 

Europe that Protects: implementing the EU's Action Plan against disinformation and measures to secure free and fair elections [updated 15/03/19 at 13:20] With the European elections fast approaching, the European Commission and the European External Action Service, in coordination and cooperation with the other EU institutions and EU Member States, have stepped up their action to make sure that our citizens' choices are free from manipulation, disinformation, or any interference coming from inside or outside the EU. To this end, implementation of the EU Action Plan against disinformation, presented by the Commission and the High Representative on 5 December 2018, is fully underway. Furthermore, in February 2019 the Commission published reports by Facebook, Google and Twitter (signatories of the Code of Practice), covering the progress made on their commitments to fight disinformation. On this occasion, the Commission asked the platforms to accelerate their efforts as well as to do more across all Member States to help ensure the integrity of the European Parliament elections in May 2019.Vice-President Ansip, Commissioners Jourová, King, and Gabriel will meet representatives of online platforms on Tuesday to discuss further progress on the implementation of the Code of Practice. On Monday, the Rapid Alert System, which was one of the key deliverables under the Action Plan, will be launched. The Rapid Alert System aims to strengthen coordination, analysis and joint responses to disinformation through creating a dedicated digital platform for a network of contact points from the 28 EU Member States and the EU institutions, working in close cooperation with the European Election Cooperation Network. Following up on the measures presented to secure free and fair elections as part of the State of the Union Address of President Juncker in September 2018, Commissioner for Justice, Consumers and Gender Equality, Věra Jourová, has written to national political parties calling on them to ensure transparency of political advertising, to be ready to face cyberattacks and to respect European data protection rules during the campaign.(For more information: Nathalie Vandystadt – Tel.: +32 229 67083; Christian Wigand– Tel.: +32 229 62253; Maja Kocijancic – Tel.: +32 229 86570)   

That looks like both the Ministry of Information and Pre-crime.

Unless what is accused a lie goes through due legal process to establish actual slander / libel, of which there seems to be on mention.

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51 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Well we know what EFTA (Norway 1.0) is because we were a founding member of it. As for 2.0 it’s not beyond the wit of man to bolt on CU membership.

That is different from being in the EU? How?

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38 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

EFTA bears no relation to what it was when we founded it as a half-arsed attempt to rival the EEC.

Yes it does. You’re talking ****.

It works for Norway, and Switzerland.

Iceland seem happy having cancelled their application to join the EUSSR.

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  • 349 The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal



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